Star Wars The Force Awakens [SPOILERS] Thread: SPOILERS

Jimmy ValenTime

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this was a good movie

the first and second acts are perfection ..


the third act is a little messy


rein ability to access the force rivals obi darth anakin luke yoda and mace

they should have just had her as a jedi in hiding like yoda or luke

if shes gonna be that powerful

i love female super heroes (buffy, katniss, jessica jones)

but she defired the rules of the series being that good that fast
 

Jimmy ValenTime

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look finn was marketed as a jedi knight

hes this series Han solo

he will probably save rein in epsiode 2 (8) and they will be a legit couple by midway of episode 2

I think the kid did a phenomenal job he ha d the same excitement about this stuff luke had in new hope and his sense of joy and fear are the anchors of a movie like this

rein a little more dry and wooden to be honest
 

Lord_Chief_Rocka

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You goddamn right we would've liked it more if he were "White". Why?

Ain't not goddamn WAY if Finn were white he would've taken all of those L's WITH zero payoff. He would've gotten the standard Hero's Journey THAT ALL White male protagonists get in Science Fiction/Fantasy movies.


But...let's SAY for the sake of argument he did, you still have White Rey the chosen one, white Han the older, but still dashingly heroic elder, white Leia the general and White Luke the Jedi.

Standard par for the course. These are white stories, MEANT for white viewers, the movie would've made a billion dollars without shoehorning a black actor into the bumbling, cowardly, loser role.

There was absolutely ZERO need to mismarket the movie with Finn as a heroic lead when he's any and EVERYTHING but.


shyt was despicable
This is such fukking bullshyt. So he had no payoff even though his plan and Intel was the reason why that they were able to destroy the weapon and save everyone.

I'm so fukking tired of this fake delusional militant bull shyt. So a young black actor gets the most impactful role in probably the biggest movie ever and you would have preferred if the role went to a white guy.

Good grief :scust:
 

The_Sheff

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You goddamn right we would've liked it more if he were "White". Why?

Ain't not goddamn WAY if Finn were white he would've taken all of those L's WITH zero payoff. He would've gotten the standard Hero's Journey THAT ALL White male protagonists get in Science Fiction/Fantasy movies.


But...let's SAY for the sake of argument he did, you still have White Rey the chosen one, white Han the older, but still dashingly heroic elder, white Leia the general and White Luke the Jedi.

Standard par for the course. These are white stories, MEANT for white viewers, the movie would've made a billion dollars without shoehorning a black actor into the bumbling, cowardly, loser role.

There was absolutely ZERO need to mismarket the movie with Finn as a heroic lead when he's any and EVERYTHING but.


shyt was despicable

Well thank God in two years we dont have to worry about you in the Episode 8 thread. Some of us are actually waiting to see the full story before we start talking about character arcs.
 

Lord_Chief_Rocka

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I reject this statement. This thread would not be 100 pages if Finn was not black and the other major thread would not be 400+ pages either. Interest would not be as high. You are deflecting with these strange alternate universe "If Finn was white" scenarios. Just accept the fact that some people feel a little hard done by and move on about it. We are not all irrational. There are other views out there. I don't believe in Ls and Ws like some people around here seem to but Finn is a little buffoonish and hollywood movies are already chock full of buffoonish black supporting characters. If you cant admit that then I don't know what else to say. I hope Finn wakes up from his coma a lot more badass, force sensitive or not. Maybe he can be a bounty hunter who is affiliated with but not belonging to the resistance. I would like that. At this point if they made him a Jedi it would be alright but a little late in the game. If he wakes up and does some bullshyt without being redeemed we are going to be lighting torches and rolling on Kathleen Kennedy's house.
Saying that the character didn't do anything other than take Ls when he was the main reason for the win is fukking irrational bruh.

And I reject the notion that if the cast was white it wouldn't have as much interest on here. Bruh it's Star Wars nikkas were interested in the continuing of the story way more than a single character.

My point is that the only reason that nikkas are complaining about Finn is that he's black. This is just retarded man
 

Lord_Chief_Rocka

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I think it's time people look at Finn through another spectrum. The hate of his character has been ridiculous. This movie doesn't work without him. Let's look at examples.

1. Poe never gets saved without Finn. Poe would've been killed and his mission would've never been completed without Finn's help. Poe explicitly states this when they meet up near the end of the film.

2. Rey would be a podunk girl stuck in the middle of nowhere without Finn. He activates her. Yes, he lies to her about the resistance, but it starts her journey through meeting him. He sets her off on her adventure. Remember BB-8 wouldn't tell Rey shyt about his mission until Finn showed up. All he said is he's classified. Who knows if he ever reveals to her, if Finn doesn't show up and lie and say he's with the resistance.

3. Can you imagine if this was the Rey & Han show the whole movie? That would've been dreadful. They had no chemistry. Han & Finn had great chemistry. Yes, Han cracked on Finn a lot, but that humor was right in line with Star Wars. It was the same humor that was in the original trilogy. And if you remember Han used to be the one people would crack jokes on in the OG TRILOGY. Did it make Han any less of a great character? No. People should be happy that Finn is the Han. They literally passed the torch before our eyes in this movie.

4. Without Finn does anyone give a shyt enough to go save Rey? Han didn't give a fukk about saving Rey until Finn made them.

5. How does the resistance blow up STARKILLER without Finn? None of them know the inside plans, only Finn knows the layout of the base. And specifically how they can get in. Finn also is the one who knows Phatsma, and brings up the idea of using her to bring down the defense system.


You remove Finn from the movie, it doesn't work plotwise, and it is way less entertaining.

Finn is the only character who had a true arc. He went from a scared coward and liar, who wanted to run away from the First Order. To a courageous fighter who put it all on the line to save Rey. Someone he cared about. He risked his life to save hers. Even though she saved him in the end. It was Finn who changed as a character. It was him who realized there IS something worth fighting for. It started with Rey and now will evolve in the next film into the resistance.

How can people act like he's not black excellence? Just because hes not a Jedi? People forget we had a Black Jedi in Sam Jackson who was a boss and was one of the heads of the order. With Finn, we have a true Protagonist that is in the big of one of the biggest Fantasy franchises in the world. How can we hate on that?

Salute to Boyega. Besides Han, he was the best character in the whole film. :salute:
:salute:

But Finn was a Kevin hart type character :dead:
 

wire28

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Really? "Making it all up?" Let's look at the FACTS


1). One HUGE issue is the racial implications of the CHARACTER. . He was emasculated from the onset to help set up Rey as smart, independent, and fierce.

2). I earlier wrote that my major issues with the character occurred mainly after the first 40 minutes, when Han showed up. I was willing to overlook that Finn's saving of Poe was filmed as selfish because he "needed a pilot" the movie itself even goes out of its way to address this, ok fine, he's scared and seizes his opportunity and happens to do some good by saving Poe in the promise. It still sets the character up as selfish, but if he gets redemption by the end then it can work within his "arc"

"Getting two kills in the first escape"...with ASSISTANCE from Poe. Finn didn't know how to pilot or gun but Poe assisted him, again I can reasonably believe this within the context of the story, no issue with this, he didn't do this unassisted or of his own merit.

On Jakku- When he first meets Rey she beats his ass. He lied to her about being in the resistance (setting him up again, as an opportunistic liar) they got attacked and SHE piloted the Falcon while he had the :why: Face almost the entire time. If you look at the sequence where he shoots the pursuing fighter, again this wasn't done of his own merit, it was because of Rey's piloting and positioning, which AGAIN the movie makes sure to announce. So we're still following the "With a little help from my friends theme". Still I'm willing to go along with this, every supposed HERO starts out with help right?


At Maz's Catina - Correct me if I'm wrong but he gets one kill, and that kill is Finn tripping over himself and stabbing the Storm trooper with the lightsaber, his ACTUAL battle with the second trooper he gets owned and Han has to save him.

The mission to Star-Killer Base- the "rescue" mission where he LIES again about knowing how to shut down the shields? The "rescue" mission where he spends most the time joking and jaw jacking while Han has to tell him to keep it cool? The "rescue" mission where he...doesn't even RESCUE the girl? :wtf: Again while Finn is portrayed as incompetent, bumbling, and comic relief, Rey is composed, resilient, and daring. There was absolutely NOTHING heroic about this sequence.

Confrontation with Kylo Ren- Getting his ass kicked and knocked unconscious while the White girl saves him for the SECOND time in the movie. So again, this is NOT a heroic moment and if you think getting your ass kicked, as the supposed LEAD MALE HERO in this movie was "heroic" then I don't know what to tell you. Dude never got to accomplish ANYTHING by himself in the movie, every "W" you gave him was assisted by someone else.


Rey and Poe, along with Finn are SUPPOSED to be the new leads. They got CLEAR hero moments that weren't reaching and were vital to the development of the AUDIENCE identifying them as heroes.

Hell Rey got TWO Hero moments saving Finn's ass, and a hero moment saving herself.

Poe led the attack that destroyed Star Killer Base



His character, as a Lead, was a blatant emasculation of the Hero's Journey

let's go over the two most important aspects of the Hero's Journey for the uninitiated.



The road of trials is a series of tests that the person must undergo to begin the transformation. Often the person fails one or more of these tests, which often occur in threes.

Campbell: "Once having traversed the threshold, the hero moves in a dream landscape of curiously fluid, ambiguous forms, where he must survive a succession of trials. This is a favorite phase of the myth-adventure. It has produced a world literature of miraculous tests and ordeals. The hero is covertly aided by the advice, amulets, and secret agents of the supernatural helper whom he met before his entrance into this region. Or it may be that he here discovers for the first time that there is a benign power everywhere supporting him in his superhuman passage. The original departure into the land of trials represented only the beginning of the long and really perilous path of initiatory conquests and moments of illumination. Dragons have now to be slain and surprising barriers passed — again, again, and again. Meanwhile there will be a multitude of preliminary victories, unretainable ecstasies and momentary glimpses of the wonderful land


Ok so let's use Finn, our supposed "Male Hero" within this frame. So he goes through his trials, he escapes and runs from the First Order, he lies to Rey and puffs himself up as a big time resistance member. All up until at Maz's Catina he confesses to Rey that he's a coward and not about that fighting life. When The order attacks and he is given the lightsaber to help Rey, he gets his ass kicked and Rey ends up kidnapped. Let's ignore all the sonning he received up until this point (gets his ass kicked by Rey upon their first meeting, gets abused by Chewie, exposes himself as a liar and coward) and say this is first failure.

Secondly, Finn hatches his "plan" (desperate gamble) to "rescue" Rey by lying and going on the mission with Han, let's ignore all of the ridiculous and corny jokes and hamming. Rey saves HERSELF using by using the Force and meeting up with them before he can even find her. So in this second trial, he FAILS.

Thirdly, going by our rule of threes, is the climatic battle with Kylo Ren. Kylo and Finn have a cinematic history going back to the movie's opening, where Finn is aghast at Kylo slaughtering those innocent villagers. This is the man who is the physical embodiment of the evil you've been fleeing, the man who kidnapped the girl you like, killed the man who assisted you, and flung said girl across the forest violently injuring her. THIS is the final test, the test where EVERY HERO OF ALMOST EVERY SCIENCE FICTION MOVIE IN THE HISTORY OF CINEMA finds the "inner strength" to triumph over adversity. It all comes to this moment.


This is the moment when your








You lose...






Moving onto the second most important aspect of the Hero's Journey


The Boon (Reward)



11]

The Ultimate BoonEdit
The ultimate boon is the achievement of the goal of the quest. It is what the person went on the journey to get. All the previous steps serve to prepare and purify the person for this step, since in many myths the boon is something transcendent like the elixir of life itself, or a plant that supplies immortality, or the holy grail.

Campbell: "The gods and goddesses then are to be understood as embodiments and custodians of the elixir of Imperishable Being but not themselves the Ultimate in its primary state. What the hero seeks through his intercourse with them is therefore not finally themselves, but their grace, i.e., the power of their sustaining substance. This miraculous energy-substance and this alone is the Imperishable; the names and forms of the deities who everywhere embody, dispense, and represent it come and go. This is the miraculous energy of the thunderbolts of Zeus, Yahweh, and the Supreme Buddha, the fertility of the rain of Viracocha, the virtue announced by the bell rung in the Mass at the consecration, and the light of the ultimate illumination of the saint and sage. Its guardians dare release it only to the duly proven."


Finn, as the loser, receives ZERO payoff for his efforts, and why should he? HEROES get payoff, redemption, and reward. Rey's payoff for the first chapter is to awaken to her true power and to meet the mystical and Mythical Luke Skywalker and (presumably be trained).

Poe's payoff and reward is to complete his original mission, getting the map to the resistance and leading the attack that destroyed Star Killer.

Finn....is in a Coma...


Won ZERO battles

Given ZERO redemption for being a coward and liar.

So here we go ONE more time with the FACTS of our "Main Male Lead"

Gets his Ass kicked by Rey
Gets his Ass kicked Chewie
Gets his Ass kicked by a random Alien
Gets his Ass kicked by a Storm Trooper
Gets his Ass kicked by Kylo Ren


No retribution whatsoever for ANY of those physical L's

Has No Force
Can't Pilot
Has No discernible skills...besides SANITATION
Lies twice
Runs away, only to come back to save the white girl and fail TWICE

So THIS your Hero's Journey Breh? Cause again, you can keep it:camby:
That late push for POTY :banderas:


:salute:dap and wish i could rep , but they aint blessed me yet with that ability. its like im finn in this spot. :damn:
Wait your time I'm sure you'll be able to next year :troll:
 

Urethra Franklin

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well thats naive. when you have people of different races in your movie, you shouldnt be color blind, you should be color conscious. you should know what flies for a white character, isnt gonna fly for a black character, just because as a critical thinking member of society, you know the consequences arent the same.

and i dont think jj abrams or the film is consciously racist, just careless and oblivious, which often results in the same BS as outright racist intent. heck, some of that BS finn charactersation, they probably cribbed from other fims with black actors in the racist past. not knowing and understanding that is part of theproblem. you shouldnt be mimicking the past, you should learn form the mistakes, and correct those mistakes for the futire.

Finn as Space Jason Bourne would have made this film so much more enjoyeable for everyone. is it really that hard to give the Finn character some character? some agency? some guile? some manliness? is it soooooooo imprtant that Rey is the ultimate Badass? shyt, they could have been badasses together. that would have been cool. is that even realistic for a female to be beating up dudes willy nilly? thats a fantasy plain and simple. they gave white women ( feminists) the fantasy they wanted, and the black dude was just along for the ride i guess.
You my man, are just looking for a reason to cry.
 

Sensitive Blake Griffin

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Finn is going to be a jedi master...

From a star wars forum:

"Think about he title of this movie "The Force Awakens" that's a BIG title to just be referring to Rey. I believe that title is meant to be taken into consideration the whole time your watching the movie. So the force obviously awakened in Rey but for an AWAKENING to happen and to be recognized by Snoke and Ren, to me, that would mean the force AWAKENED in a big way. So in more than one person. Also think, Rey gets awakened to the force at the same time a storm trooper AWAKENS from his conditioning and brainwashing as a First Order soldier? When this, to our knowledge, has never happened with any other storm trooper. Seems like more than a coincidence to me. Also, combine that with the looks he gets from Ren multiple times, and him wielding a lightsabers effectively AND wounding Kylo AND being a rather less than average guy but doing all these extraordinary things. Also Star Wars has a reputation for taking the underdogs and doing great things with them usually involving the force, and Rey seems the obvious choice. Almost too obvious to be the HUGE hero for this trilogy. To me, it seems as tho the force is strong with this one (FINN)"
Discussion - Bets! Will Finn develop Force powers/become a Jedi?
Yeah I said a few pages ago no way was it a coincidence that Finn denies his programming right when poe who has the map to Luke needs help.
 

wire28

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She conspired with KK Abrams to make a propaganda piece about how black men are white womans bytches.
Exaggerate in order to dismiss Hollywoods history of black caricatures and emasculation, brehs.

Well thank God in two years we dont have to worry about you in the Episode 8 thread. Some of us are actually waiting to see the full story before we start talking about character arcs.
Im sure they'll do right by us next time :troll:
 

Sensitive Blake Griffin

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Kathleen Kennedy is now the most powerful Gatekeeper to Star Wars lore and continuity since GL sold Star Wars to Disney. She is president of Lucasfilms, she RUNS the shots.

Kathleen Kennedy is a white woman, if you think that it's a coincidence that Rey is an all powerful Force User who can kick ass and take names merely hours after even learning she has the force, while the Black Male is made a bumbling, cowardly, failure, well then there's never EVER been any evidence of racism in Hollywwod :stopitslime:


Like I said, the movie went out of its WAY. To b*stardize and ignore the standard rules of the Hero's Journey, a standard that's been played out across SIX PREVIOUS films in order to emasculate and minimize Finn's character.

The most insulting part about it is that's it's completely unnecessary. TFA would've made a billion dollars if they cast a wombat as the lead, pulling a bait and switch with the white woman actually made ZERO sense considering Hunger Games, Divergent, and Twilight are franchises headlined by white women that are massively successful.


They should've done one of three things


1). Kept both lead characters white. Nobody would've batted an eyleash. It would've been par for the course, I've already written that it's known and BEEN known that Star Wars is a white franchise for white people. Rey still could've been heroic and if they wanted to have her paired next to a loser to make her look cooler and more capable they could've cast Jesse Eisenberg, Dave Franco, Ava Butterfield, or whatever up and coming white actor of their choosing. However I GURANTEE that had Finn been cast as white he wouldn't have ended up such a pathetic and emasculated character, there is ZERO chance that a White male "Hero" is wielding a lightsaber in a Star Wars movie and not only ending up Forceless, but winless and unconscious as well.

2). Take Finn out of the movie entirely, many of you are basing Finn's entire importance on saving Poe in the beginning (which is ironically, his best showing in the entire movie and the only sequence in 2 1/2 hours where he shows any type of promise, even if it is for selfish reasons) but Poe was originally written to die at the beginning of the movie. Without that ONE sequence you literally don't need Finn in any part of the movie, he is "integral" to absolutely nothing. Rey could have piloted the falcon and escaped Jakku on her own with BB8, srill showing how smart and "resourceful" she is. Han could have guided her to Maz. Finn isn't needed in any part of Maz's planet as he is a failure at fighting and failed at saving Rey anyway. Rey saved HERSELF from Star Killer base, so Finn's failure there was unnecessary as well. The climatic battle, Finn isn't needed at all as he FAILS to defeat Kylo and Rey had incredible dues ex machina force powers by that point. The entire movie could've been shot without Finn and Rey still would've been an awesome white woman protagonist.


3). The most radical idea of all....Actually make Finn a HERO. All of these "character development" "let's wait until episode 8" are all nonesense and I've already disproven how faulty they are. Finn doesn't even HAVE to be Force Sensitive to have a true moment of heroism and a W to his name. Give him a scene of true courage and payoff, Rey can be saved at least ONCE during that film without undoing her heroic independence, especially if she's going to be the one to defeat Kylo at the end. The best opportunity for this would've been actually allowing Finn to rescue Rey at Star Killer base, throw out all the corny jokes and jaw jacking at Phasm, kill the sanitation worker bullshyt, this would've been Finn's and EVERY OTHER MALE HERO IN A SCIENCE FICTION MOVIE'S characters moment to prove their worth. Which MAIN character in a science fiction movie accomplished absolutely NOTHING heroic by the end of that film at ended up in a coma?

ANH Luke? No
ESB Luke? No
ROTJ Luke? No
Matrix Neo? No (in reloaded he's in a coma AFTER displaying a new and heroic ability to control and defeat the machines in the REAL world. The machines didn't kick his ass and relegate him unconscious while Trinity saves the day)

Lord Of The Rings Aragon? No
Phantom Menace Anakin? No
Attack Of The Clones Anakin? No
Revenge Of The Sith Obi-Wan? No. Hell Anakin is the VILLIAN of that film, a traitor and child-killer, gets burned to a CRISP and doesn't get relegated to a coma



Bu...bu...BUT we all of a sudden have a supposed black lead and these established rules don't apply. Now it's "let's have the black character running scared, lying, and getting his ass beat in EVERY SINGLE PHYSICAL CONFRONTATION for 2 1/2 hours and call it character development brehs"


Call him "The Heart Of The Film" brehs:mjlol:

fukk outta here :camby:
So you liked the movie right?
 

The Fukin Prophecy

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So we're sure Rey is Lukes father right?

She had the falcon in her flashback and the Anakin/Luke saber called for her...

and I assume Rey's "force awakening" is what awakened R2D2...
 
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