That's the Locker Room in general
Star Wars The Force Awakens [SPOILERS] Thread: SPOILERS
- Thread starter Rain
- Start date
Mike Otherz
All Star
Really? "Making it all up?" Let's look at the FACTS
1). One HUGE issue is the racial implications of the CHARACTER. . He was emasculated from the onset to help set up Rey as smart, independent, and fierce.
2). I earlier wrote that my major issues with the character occurred mainly after the first 40 minutes, when Han showed up. I was willing to overlook that Finn's saving of Poe was filmed as selfish because he "needed a pilot" the movie itself even goes out of its way to address this, ok fine, he's scared and seizes his opportunity and happens to do some good by saving Poe in the promise. It still sets the character up as selfish, but if he gets redemption by the end then it can work within his "arc"
"Getting two kills in the first escape"...with ASSISTANCE from Poe. Finn didn't know how to pilot or gun but Poe assisted him, again I can reasonably believe this within the context of the story, no issue with this, he didn't do this unassisted or of his own merit.
On Jakku- When he first meets Rey she beats his ass. He lied to her about being in the resistance (setting him up again, as an opportunistic liar) they got attacked and SHE piloted the Falcon while he had theFace almost the entire time. If you look at the sequence where he shoots the pursuing fighter, again this wasn't done of his own merit, it was because of Rey's piloting and positioning, which AGAIN the movie makes sure to announce. So we're still following the "With a little help from my friends theme". Still I'm willing to go along with this, every supposed HERO starts out with help right?
At Maz's Catina - Correct me if I'm wrong but he gets one kill, and that kill is Finn tripping over himself and stabbing the Storm trooper with the lightsaber, his ACTUAL battle with the second trooper he gets owned and Han has to save him.
The mission to Star-Killer Base- the "rescue" mission where he LIES again about knowing how to shut down the shields? The "rescue" mission where he spends most the time joking and jaw jacking while Han has to tell him to keep it cool? The "rescue" mission where he...doesn't even RESCUE the girl?Again while Finn is portrayed as incompetent, bumbling, and comic relief, Rey is composed, resilient, and daring. There was absolutely NOTHING heroic about this sequence.
Confrontation with Kylo Ren- Getting his ass kicked and knocked unconscious while the White girl saves him for the SECOND time in the movie. So again, this is NOT a heroic moment and if you think getting your ass kicked, as the supposed LEAD MALE HERO in this movie was "heroic" then I don't know what to tell you. Dude never got to accomplish ANYTHING by himself in the movie, every "W" you gave him was assisted by someone else.
Rey and Poe, along with Finn are SUPPOSED to be the new leads. They got CLEAR hero moments that weren't reaching and were vital to the development of the AUDIENCE identifying them as heroes.
Hell Rey got TWO Hero moments saving Finn's ass, and a hero moment saving herself.
Poe led the attack that destroyed Star Killer Base
His character, as a Lead, was a blatant emasculation of the Hero's Journey
let's go over the two most important aspects of the Hero's Journey for the uninitiated.
The road of trials is a series of tests that the person must undergo to begin the transformation. Often the person fails one or more of these tests, which often occur in threes.
Campbell: "Once having traversed the threshold, the hero moves in a dream landscape of curiously fluid, ambiguous forms, where he must survive a succession of trials. This is a favorite phase of the myth-adventure. It has produced a world literature of miraculous tests and ordeals. The hero is covertly aided by the advice, amulets, and secret agents of the supernatural helper whom he met before his entrance into this region. Or it may be that he here discovers for the first time that there is a benign power everywhere supporting him in his superhuman passage. The original departure into the land of trials represented only the beginning of the long and really perilous path of initiatory conquests and moments of illumination. Dragons have now to be slain and surprising barriers passed — again, again, and again. Meanwhile there will be a multitude of preliminary victories, unretainable ecstasies and momentary glimpses of the wonderful land
Ok so let's use Finn, our supposed "Male Hero" within this frame. So he goes through his trials, he escapes and runs from the First Order, he lies to Rey and puffs himself up as a big time resistance member. All up until at Maz's Catina he confesses to Rey that he's a coward and not about that fighting life. When The order attacks and he is given the lightsaber to help Rey, he gets his ass kicked and Rey ends up kidnapped. Let's ignore all the sonning he received up until this point (gets his ass kicked by Rey upon their first meeting, gets abused by Chewie, exposes himself as a liar and coward) and say this is first failure.
Secondly, Finn hatches his "plan" (desperate gamble) to "rescue" Rey by lying and going on the mission with Han, let's ignore all of the ridiculous and corny jokes and hamming. Rey saves HERSELF using by using the Force and meeting up with them before he can even find her. So in this second trial, he FAILS.
Thirdly, going by our rule of threes, is the climatic battle with Kylo Ren. Kylo and Finn have a cinematic history going back to the movie's opening, where Finn is aghast at Kylo slaughtering those innocent villagers. This is the man who is the physical embodiment of the evil you've been fleeing, the man who kidnapped the girl you like, killed the man who assisted you, and flung said girl across the forest violently injuring her. THIS is the final test, the test where EVERY HERO OF ALMOST EVERY SCIENCE FICTION MOVIE IN THE HISTORY OF CINEMA finds the "inner strength" to triumph over adversity. It all comes to this moment.
This is the moment when your
You lose...
Moving onto the second most important aspect of the Hero's Journey
The Boon (Reward)
11]
The Ultimate BoonEdit
The ultimate boon is the achievement of the goal of the quest. It is what the person went on the journey to get. All the previous steps serve to prepare and purify the person for this step, since in many myths the boon is something transcendent like the elixir of life itself, or a plant that supplies immortality, or the holy grail.
Campbell: "The gods and goddesses then are to be understood as embodiments and custodians of the elixir of Imperishable Being but not themselves the Ultimate in its primary state. What the hero seeks through his intercourse with them is therefore not finally themselves, but their grace, i.e., the power of their sustaining substance. This miraculous energy-substance and this alone is the Imperishable; the names and forms of the deities who everywhere embody, dispense, and represent it come and go. This is the miraculous energy of the thunderbolts of Zeus, Yahweh, and the Supreme Buddha, the fertility of the rain of Viracocha, the virtue announced by the bell rung in the Mass at the consecration, and the light of the ultimate illumination of the saint and sage. Its guardians dare release it only to the duly proven."
Finn, as the loser, receives ZERO payoff for his efforts, and why should he? HEROES get payoff, redemption, and reward. Rey's payoff for the first chapter is to awaken to her true power and to meet the mystical and Mythical Luke Skywalker and (presumably be trained).
Poe's payoff and reward is to complete his original mission, getting the map to the resistance and leading the attack that destroyed Star Killer.
Finn....is in a Coma...
Won ZERO battles
Given ZERO redemption for being a coward and liar.
So here we go ONE more time with the FACTS of our "Main Male Lead"
Gets his Ass kicked by Rey
Gets his Ass kicked Chewie
Gets his Ass kicked by a random Alien
Gets his Ass kicked by a Storm Trooper
Gets his Ass kicked by Kylo Ren
No retribution whatsoever for ANY of those physical L's
Has No Force
Can't Pilot
Has No discernible skills...besides SANITATION
Lies twice
Runs away, only to come back to save the white girl and fail TWICE
So THIS your Hero's Journey Breh? Cause again, you can keep it
dap and wish i could rep , but they aint blessed me yet with that ability. its like im finn in this spot. 
NERO
All Star
I don't think it was JJ who did this because he is a good guy but I think it came from above him or he was outvoted in the writers room. All of the male characters who interacted with Rey were made to look inept at times to highlight how awesome she is and that is ok with me but when it comes to Finn's character in particular there is definitely something else going on. Personally I think it was KK and the editors who manipulated the character of Finn into something like JarJar2.0
I think this is overly conspiratorial
TMNT4000
Superstar
@Ziggiy
1) If you gonna say that, Rey was schooling Han in majority of the time. She even was schooling Han on his own ship. Finn and Rey scenes didn't show know emasculated of Finn. The closes you have is the final scene which I can't count that because Rey has the force and Finn doesn't and still held his own against Ren. Hell Ren took the biggest "L" when come to emasculated the male character in the movie.
Rey did not beat her ass you over blowing that scene Finn didn't even fight back to called that a ass whooping.
They both helped each other in that scene with Falcon, they both gave each other advise on attack those ships and than congratulate each other on they're skills in that scene, why did you missed that?
The only times Finn was personally saved was in that weird monster on the ship by Rey and from Han on the Storm trooper. I don't count the one with Kylo Ren of him being saved. Btw how come Ren is not considered being emasculated for losing to a woman? If Ren was black people in here will have complain about that too.
Look I understand the false advertisement of him becoming a Jedi and I can understand you don't like the personality of his character.
But the over analyzing of every scene he was in as some kinda of giant "L" is over blown.
His a character that just wanted to get out of the FO and ends ups risking his life for people he just meant.
We will see in the sequel if they are dead serious on developing his character or throwing him into the bushes, its only the first movie of the trilogy.
1) If you gonna say that, Rey was schooling Han in majority of the time. She even was schooling Han on his own ship. Finn and Rey scenes didn't show know emasculated of Finn. The closes you have is the final scene which I can't count that because Rey has the force and Finn doesn't and still held his own against Ren. Hell Ren took the biggest "L" when come to emasculated the male character in the movie.
Rey did not beat her ass you over blowing that scene Finn didn't even fight back to called that a ass whooping.
They both helped each other in that scene with Falcon, they both gave each other advise on attack those ships and than congratulate each other on they're skills in that scene, why did you missed that?
The only times Finn was personally saved was in that weird monster on the ship by Rey and from Han on the Storm trooper. I don't count the one with Kylo Ren of him being saved. Btw how come Ren is not considered being emasculated for losing to a woman? If Ren was black people in here will have complain about that too.
Look I understand the false advertisement of him becoming a Jedi and I can understand you don't like the personality of his character.
But the over analyzing of every scene he was in as some kinda of giant "L" is over blown.
His a character that just wanted to get out of the FO and ends ups risking his life for people he just meant.
We will see in the sequel if they are dead serious on developing his character or throwing him into the bushes, its only the first movie of the trilogy.
Last edited:
NERO
All Star
I think this is overly conspiratorial
She conspired with KK Abrams to make a propaganda piece about how black men are white womans bytches.Why does everyone seem to have something against Kathleen Kennedy?
NERO
All Star
Jar Jar luckboxed into all sorts of little victories that helped the main protagonists. He was a walking deus ex machina dispenser in episode I. Don't turn your critical eye toward me man. I am just saying some more skeptical members of the forum have a point. I can see both sides of this.@NERO you seem to have a high opinion of Jar Jar's stormtrooper, lightsaber and ship turret skills
lmao if Ren was black TLR would be furious@Ziggiy
1) If you gonna say that, Rey was schooling Han in majority of the time. She even was school Han on his own ship. Finn and Rey scenes didn't show know emasculated of Finn. The closes you have is the final scene which I can't count that because Rey has the force and Finn doesn't and still held his own against Ren. Hell Ren took the biggest "L" when come to emasculated the male character in the movie.
Rey did not beat her ass you over blowing that scene Finn didn't even fight back to called that a ass whooping.
They both helped each other in that scene with Falcon, they both gave each other advise on attack those ships and than congratulate each other on they're skills in that scene, why did you missed that?
The only times Finn was personally saved was in that weird monster on the ship by Rey and from Han on the Storm trooper. I don't count the one with Kylo Ren of him being saved. Btw how come Ren is not considered being emasculated for losing to a woman? If Ren was black people in here will have complain about that too.
Look I understand the false advertisement of him becoming a Jedi and I can understand you don't like the personality of his character.
But the over analyzing of every scene he was in as some kinda of giant "L" is over blown.
His a character that just wanted to get out of the FO and ends ups risking his life for people he just meant.
We will see in the sequel if they are dead serious on developing his character or throwing him into the bushes, its only the first movie of the trilogy.
@NERO @Box Cutta @Ziggiy can someone explain why there's such a negative opinion of Kathleen Kennedy?
Expecially when it isn't there for JJ and GLExactly. But this is why his comparison to Finn is absurd.
TMNT4000
Superstar
Hell I can see it now "Look how white Hollywood promoting the stereo typical angry emotional black man but don't promote a calm and collected black villain and using a white woman to emasculated him as well."
