Star Wars The Force Awakens [SPOILERS] Thread: SPOILERS

[23Barrettcity]

Really? "Making it all up?" Let's look at the FACTS


1). One HUGE issue is the racial implications of the CHARACTER. . He was emasculated from the onset to help set up Rey as smart, independent, and fierce.

2). I earlier wrote that my major issues with the character occurred mainly after the first 40 minutes, when Han showed up. I was willing to overlook that Finn's saving of Poe was filmed as selfish because he "needed a pilot" the movie itself even goes out of its way to address this, ok fine, he's scared and seizes his opportunity and happens to do some good by saving Poe in the promise. It still sets the character up as selfish, but if he gets redemption by the end then it can work within his "arc"

"Getting two kills in the first escape"...with ASSISTANCE from Poe. Finn didn't know how to pilot or gun but Poe assisted him, again I can reasonably believe this within the context of the story, no issue with this, he didn't do this unassisted or of his own merit.

On Jakku- When he first meets Rey she beats his ass. He lied to her about being in the resistance (setting him up again, as an opportunistic liar) they got attacked and SHE piloted the Falcon while he had the Face almost the entire time. If you look at the sequence where he shoots the pursuing fighter, again this wasn't done of his own merit, it was because of Rey's piloting and positioning, which AGAIN the movie makes sure to announce. So we're still following the "With a little help from my friends theme". Still I'm willing to go along with this, every supposed HERO starts out with help right?


At Maz's Catina - Correct me if I'm wrong but he gets one kill, and that kill is Finn tripping over himself and stabbing the Storm trooper with the lightsaber, his ACTUAL battle with the second trooper he gets owned and Han has to save him.

The mission to Star-Killer Base- the "rescue" mission where he LIES again about knowing how to shut down the shields? The "rescue" mission where he spends most the time joking and jaw jacking while Han has to tell him to keep it cool? The "rescue" mission where he...doesn't even RESCUE the girl? Again while Finn is portrayed as incompetent, bumbling, and comic relief, Rey is composed, resilient, and daring. There was absolutely NOTHING heroic about this sequence.

Confrontation with Kylo Ren- Getting his ass kicked and knocked unconscious while the White girl saves him for the SECOND time in the movie. So again, this is NOT a heroic moment and if you think getting your ass kicked, as the supposed LEAD MALE HERO in this movie was "heroic" then I don't know what to tell you. Dude never got to accomplish ANYTHING by himself in the movie, every "W" you gave him was assisted by someone else.


Rey and Poe, along with Finn are SUPPOSED to be the new leads. They got CLEAR hero moments that weren't reaching and were vital to the development of the AUDIENCE identifying them as heroes.

Hell Rey got TWO Hero moments saving Finn's ass, and a hero moment saving herself.

Poe led the attack that destroyed Star Killer Base



His character, as a Lead, was a blatant emasculation of the Hero's Journey

let's go over the two most important aspects of the Hero's Journey for the uninitiated.



The road of trials is a series of tests that the person must undergo to begin the transformation. Often the person fails one or more of these tests, which often occur in threes.

Campbell: "Once having traversed the threshold, the hero moves in a dream landscape of curiously fluid, ambiguous forms, where he must survive a succession of trials. This is a favorite phase of the myth-adventure. It has produced a world literature of miraculous tests and ordeals. The hero is covertly aided by the advice, amulets, and secret agents of the supernatural helper whom he met before his entrance into this region. Or it may be that he here discovers for the first time that there is a benign power everywhere supporting him in his superhuman passage. The original departure into the land of trials represented only the beginning of the long and really perilous path of initiatory conquests and moments of illumination. Dragons have now to be slain and surprising barriers passed — again, again, and again. Meanwhile there will be a multitude of preliminary victories, unretainable ecstasies and momentary glimpses of the wonderful land

Ok so let's use Finn, our supposed "Male Hero" within this frame. So he goes through his trials, he escapes and runs from the First Order, he lies to Rey and puffs himself up as a big time resistance member. All up until at Maz's Catina he confesses to Rey that he's a coward and not about that fighting life. When The order attacks and he is given the lightsaber to help Rey, he gets his ass kicked and Rey ends up kidnapped. Let's ignore all the sonning he received up until this point (gets his ass kicked by Rey upon their first meeting, gets abused by Chewie, exposes himself as a liar and coward) and say this is first failure.

Secondly, Finn hatches his "plan" (desperate gamble) to "rescue" Rey by lying and going on the mission with Han, let's ignore all of the ridiculous and corny jokes and hamming. Rey saves HERSELF using by using the Force and meeting up with them before he can even find her. So in this second trial, he FAILS.

Thirdly, going by our rule of threes, is the climatic battle with Kylo Ren. Kylo and Finn have a cinematic history going back to the movie's opening, where Finn is aghast at Kylo slaughtering those innocent villagers. This is the man who is the physical embodiment of the evil you've been fleeing, the man who kidnapped the girl you like, killed the man who assisted you, and flung said girl across the forest violently injuring her. THIS is the final test, the test where EVERY HERO OF ALMOST EVERY SCIENCE FICTION MOVIE IN THE HISTORY OF CINEMA finds the "inner strength" to triumph over adversity. It all comes to this moment.


This is the moment when your








You lose...






Moving onto the second most important aspect of the Hero's Journey


The Boon (Reward)



11]

The Ultimate BoonEdit
The ultimate boon is the achievement of the goal of the quest. It is what the person went on the journey to get. All the previous steps serve to prepare and purify the person for this step, since in many myths the boon is something transcendent like the elixir of life itself, or a plant that supplies immortality, or the holy grail.

Campbell: "The gods and goddesses then are to be understood as embodiments and custodians of the elixir of Imperishable Being but not themselves the Ultimate in its primary state. What the hero seeks through his intercourse with them is therefore not finally themselves, but their grace, i.e., the power of their sustaining substance. This miraculous energy-substance and this alone is the Imperishable; the names and forms of the deities who everywhere embody, dispense, and represent it come and go. This is the miraculous energy of the thunderbolts of Zeus, Yahweh, and the Supreme Buddha, the fertility of the rain of Viracocha, the virtue announced by the bell rung in the Mass at the consecration, and the light of the ultimate illumination of the saint and sage. Its guardians dare release it only to the duly proven."


Finn, as the loser, receives ZERO payoff for his efforts, and why should he? HEROES get payoff, redemption, and reward. Rey's payoff for the first chapter is to awaken to her true power and to meet the mystical and Mythical Luke Skywalker and (presumably be trained).

Poe's payoff and reward is to complete his original mission, getting the map to the resistance and leading the attack that destroyed Star Killer.

Finn....is in a Coma...


Won ZERO battles

Given ZERO redemption for being a coward and liar.

So here we go ONE more time with the FACTS of our "Main Male Lead"

Gets his Ass kicked by Rey
Gets his Ass kicked Chewie
Gets his Ass kicked by a random Alien
Gets his Ass kicked by a Storm Trooper
Gets his Ass kicked by Kylo Ren


No retribution whatsoever for ANY of those physical L's

Has No Force
Can't Pilot
Has No discernible skills...besides SANITATION
Lies twice
Runs away, only to come back to save the white girl and fail TWICE

So THIS your Hero's Journey Breh? Cause again, you can keep it

Your presenting stuff in the movie wrong to prove your point . Rey was captured by ren and left helpless after running from her destiny . Also in the final fight she gets KO automatically by Kylo with the force , if Finn isn't there she's dead or captured .

 

[jay211]

I think it's time people look at Finn through another spectrum. The hate of his character has been ridiculous. This movie doesn't work without him. Let's look at examples.

1. Poe never gets saved without Finn. Poe would've been killed and his mission would've never been completed without Finn's help. Poe explicitly states this when they meet up near the end of the film.

2. Rey would be a podunk girl stuck in the middle of nowhere without Finn. He activates her. Yes, he lies to her about the resistance, but it starts her journey through meeting him. He sets her off on her adventure. Remember BB-8 wouldn't tell Rey shyt about his mission until Finn showed up. All he said is he's classified. Who knows if he ever reveals to her, if Finn doesn't show up and lie and say he's with the resistance.

3. Can you imagine if this was the Rey & Han show the whole movie? That would've been dreadful. They had no chemistry. Han & Finn had great chemistry. Yes, Han cracked on Finn a lot, but that humor was right in line with Star Wars. It was the same humor that was in the original trilogy. And if you remember Han used to be the one people would crack jokes on in the OG TRILOGY. Did it make Han any less of a great character? No. People should be happy that Finn is the Han. They literally passed the torch before our eyes in this movie.

4. Without Finn does anyone give a shyt enough to go save Rey? Han didn't give a fukk about saving Rey until Finn made them.

5. How does the resistance blow up STARKILLER without Finn? None of them know the inside plans, only Finn knows the layout of the base. And specifically how they can get in. Finn also is the one who knows Phatsma, and brings up the idea of using her to bring down the defense system.


You remove Finn from the movie, it doesn't work plotwise, and it is way less entertaining.

Finn is the only character who had a true arc. He went from a scared coward and liar, who wanted to run away from the First Order. To a courageous fighter who put it all on the line to save Rey. Someone he cared about. He risked his life to save hers. Even though she saved him in the end. It was Finn who changed as a character. It was him who realized there IS something worth fighting for. It started with Rey and now will evolve in the next film into the resistance.

How can people act like he's not black excellence? Just because hes not a Jedi? People forget we had a Black Jedi in Sam Jackson who was a boss and was one of the heads of the order. With Finn, we have a true Protagonist that is in the big of one of the biggest Fantasy franchises in the world. How can we hate on that?

Salute to Boyega. Besides Han, he was the best character in the whole film.

 

[Mike Otherz]

Wait hang on a second. The role of Finn was already determined before casting and it was made clear that he could be any "colour". It's not like Abrams radically changed the role of Finn after John Boyega was casted

well thats naive. when you have people of different races in your movie, you shouldnt be color blind, you should be color conscious. you should know what flies for a white character, isnt gonna fly for a black character, just because as a critical thinking member of society, you know the consequences arent the same.

and i dont think jj abrams or the film is consciously racist, just careless and oblivious, which often results in the same BS as outright racist intent. heck, some of that BS finn charactersation, they probably cribbed from other fims with black actors in the racist past. not knowing and understanding that is part of theproblem. you shouldnt be mimicking the past, you should learn form the mistakes, and correct those mistakes for the futire.

Finn as Space Jason Bourne would have made this film so much more enjoyeable for everyone. is it really that hard to give the Finn character some character? some agency? some guile? some manliness? is it soooooooo imprtant that Rey is the ultimate Badass? shyt, they could have been badasses together. that would have been cool. is that even realistic for a female to be beating up dudes willy nilly? thats a fantasy plain and simple. they gave white women ( feminists) the fantasy they wanted, and the black dude was just along for the ride i guess.

 

[gluvnast]

I swear people are too image insecure. SMH.

 

[gluvnast]

I swear, a movie where the THREE heroes are a Hispanic, a Black man, and a woman... All atypical heroic types in Hollywood and we complain because A Force Awakens a bytch rather than the nikka. nikkaz are all in their feelings. Make long ass excuses to cover their hurt feelings. Y'all go ahead. The movie's dope. Boyega did his thing and shined. Y'all crying over bullshyt.

 

[Rapmastermind]

Didn't Rey put on Luke's X-wing helmet whenever they showed her early in the movie living in that AT-AT? I mean, the film heavily implied she is the daughter of Luke Skywalker

It may not have been Luke's but that was symbolism that she's Luke daughter:

*Wearing a Rebellion X Wing Helmet that Luke Wore also Anakin wore a similar helmet during the Pod race.
*Growing up on a Desert Planet like Anakin and Luke on Tatooine. Tatoonie has 2 suns, Jakku has 3 suns.
*BB-8 is her R2D2
*She fixes things just like Luke did on the mosture farm and Anakin did as kid.
*She's a pilot just like Anakin and Luke was.
*She looks like a young Padme and Leia (Her grandmother and aunt).
*She wearing basically the same outfit as Anakin and Luke did.
*She has her own speeder like Luke and Anakin did.
*She had the vision when she touched Anakin saber that was passed down to Luke. Obi, Yoda and Luke voices were heard.

 

[Real]

I need to hurry up and see this movie. Cuz yall nikkas starting to get reckless with these thread titles

 

[Youhadasparkwhenustarted]

I just got done watching the movie, and I didn't really go into this expecting much, but this movie was okay. Nothing really stood at as special, certain plot points seem to be recycled, and it seemed to stick pretty closely to the formula the original movie followed, but none of that is really shocking and I was still pretty entertained.

What kept me hooked though, was John's performance as Finn and his whole story arc. It was disappointing to see that Finn didn't turn out to be a Jedi like I was hoping( I really wanted the movie to stick it to the racists out there), but he turned out to be the most interesting and most likable character, while having the best performance in the movie. Rey was okay, and is at least a change up from the typical white male casting in these roles, but other than that she's about as typical as a lead character can be. Still, Rey seems to have some pretty close ties to Luke, so I wanna see what comes of that( I hope the writers don't go the obvious route in regards to their relationship). Also, I thought Poe was pretty forgettable.I figure the future movies will delve deeper into Rey and Poe's characters and build them a bit more, but I think Force Awakens should've spent more time on that, because I want more of a reason to care about them going into the next movie.

The Force Awaken turned out to be a decent casual watch; the lore of the Star Wars universe is still pretty fantastic, and I'm really anxious to see more of Finn and Luke, so I'm looking forward to the next movie.

 

[Jazzy B.]

well thats naive. when you have people of different races in your movie, you shouldnt be color blind, you should be color conscious. you should know what flies for a white character, isnt gonna fly for a black character, just because as a critical thinking member of society, you know the consequences arent the same.

and i dont think jj abrams or the film is consciously racist, just careless and oblivious, which often results in the same BS as outright racist intent. heck, some of that BS finn charactersation, they probably cribbed from other fims with black actors in the racist past. not knowing and understanding that is part of theproblem. you shouldnt be mimicking the past, you should learn form the mistakes, and correct those mistakes for the futire.

Finn as Space Jason Bourne would have made this film so much more enjoyeable for everyone. is it really that hard to give the Finn character some character? some agency? some guile? some manliness? is it soooooooo imprtant that Rey is the ultimate Badass? shyt, they could have been badasses together. that would have been cool. is that even realistic for a female to be beating up dudes willy nilly? thats a fantasy plain and simple. they gave white women ( feminists) the fantasy they wanted, and the black dude was just along for the ride i guess.

They're simply lost b and programmed to be allergic and threatened by the type of character we're talking about e.g. a powerful, competent, confident and almost perfect black main/lead character who aint there for comic relief. A fantasy movie with space wizardry and no impossibilities and they're fine with the only Black male, who's a lead character being some ordinary and clumsy comedic mofo whilst every other character's the opposite, confident and excellent in their zone all the way through and given payoff moments, in a damn fantasy movie . If that isn't conditioning. This in a day and age where they know you can affect their revenue stream. They're even championing Rey but then putting down people who expected the same treatment of Finn, the lead black character . They stay exposing themselves.

 

[Soymuscle Mike]

Saw it for the second time, still loved it - can we agree though that it's easily John William's weakest score?

Saw it twice now and I could not remember a memorable new tune if you put a gun to my head.

He was easily the most consistent part of the prequels - killing it with new shyt every movie.

 

[Dr. Narcisse]

Talking about JJ and Rian Johnson collaboration

JJ's got final say and has veto'd certain ideas already

 

[Michael9100]

Finn is going to be a jedi master...

From a star wars forum:

"Think about he title of this movie "The Force Awakens" that's a BIG title to just be referring to Rey. I believe that title is meant to be taken into consideration the whole time your watching the movie. So the force obviously awakened in Rey but for an AWAKENING to happen and to be recognized by Snoke and Ren, to me, that would mean the force AWAKENED in a big way. So in more than one person. Also think, Rey gets awakened to the force at the same time a storm trooper AWAKENS from his conditioning and brainwashing as a First Order soldier? When this, to our knowledge, has never happened with any other storm trooper. Seems like more than a coincidence to me. Also, combine that with the looks he gets from Ren multiple times, and him wielding a lightsabers effectively AND wounding Kylo AND being a rather less than average guy but doing all these extraordinary things. Also Star Wars has a reputation for taking the underdogs and doing great things with them usually involving the force, and Rey seems the obvious choice. Almost too obvious to be the HUGE hero for this trilogy. To me, it seems as tho the force is strong with this one (FINN)"
Discussion - Bets! Will Finn develop Force powers/become a Jedi?

 

[No Sleep]

Ren was pissed at FINN. I want to believe that he knew the force was in FINN which is why he kept yelling trader at him.

Although I think FINN is just going to partner up with Chewie and be the new Han Sol.

 

[abominable1]

Saw the movie in Imax 3d - it was a great movie in general but only a so so Star wars movie,
I felt like I had seen it before

 

[Ziggiy]

@NERO @Box Cutta @Ziggiy can someone explain why there's such a negative opinion of Kathleen Kennedy? Expecially when it isn't there for JJ and GL

Kathleen Kennedy is now the most powerful Gatekeeper to Star Wars lore and continuity since GL sold Star Wars to Disney. She is president of Lucasfilms, she RUNS the shots.

Kathleen Kennedy is a white woman, if you think that it's a coincidence that Rey is an all powerful Force User who can kick ass and take names merely hours after even learning she has the force, while the Black Male is made a bumbling, cowardly, failure, well then there's never EVER been any evidence of racism in Hollywwod


Like I said, the movie went out of its WAY. To b*stardize and ignore the standard rules of the Hero's Journey, a standard that's been played out across SIX PREVIOUS films in order to emasculate and minimize Finn's character.

The most insulting part about it is that's it's completely unnecessary. TFA would've made a billion dollars if they cast a wombat as the lead, pulling a bait and switch with the white woman actually made ZERO sense considering Hunger Games, Divergent, and Twilight are franchises headlined by white women that are massively successful.


They should've done one of three things


1). Kept both lead characters white. Nobody would've batted an eyleash. It would've been par for the course, I've already written that it's known and BEEN known that Star Wars is a white franchise for white people. Rey still could've been heroic and if they wanted to have her paired next to a loser to make her look cooler and more capable they could've cast Jesse Eisenberg, Dave Franco, Ava Butterfield, or whatever up and coming white actor of their choosing. However I GURANTEE that had Finn been cast as white he wouldn't have ended up such a pathetic and emasculated character, there is ZERO chance that a White male "Hero" is wielding a lightsaber in a Star Wars movie and not only ending up Forceless, but winless and unconscious as well.

2). Take Finn out of the movie entirely, many of you are basing Finn's entire importance on saving Poe in the beginning (which is ironically, his best showing in the entire movie and the only sequence in 2 1/2 hours where he shows any type of promise, even if it is for selfish reasons) but Poe was originally written to die at the beginning of the movie. Without that ONE sequence you literally don't need Finn in any part of the movie, he is "integral" to absolutely nothing. Rey could have piloted the falcon and escaped Jakku on her own with BB8, srill showing how smart and "resourceful" she is. Han could have guided her to Maz. Finn isn't needed in any part of Maz's planet as he is a failure at fighting and failed at saving Rey anyway. Rey saved HERSELF from Star Killer base, so Finn's failure there was unnecessary as well. The climatic battle, Finn isn't needed at all as he FAILS to defeat Kylo and Rey had incredible dues ex machina force powers by that point. The entire movie could've been shot without Finn and Rey still would've been an awesome white woman protagonist.


3). The most radical idea of all....Actually make Finn a HERO. All of these "character development" "let's wait until episode 8" are all nonesense and I've already disproven how faulty they are. Finn doesn't even HAVE to be Force Sensitive to have a true moment of heroism and a W to his name. Give him a scene of true courage and payoff, Rey can be saved at least ONCE during that film without undoing her heroic independence, especially if she's going to be the one to defeat Kylo at the end. The best opportunity for this would've been actually allowing Finn to rescue Rey at Star Killer base, throw out all the corny jokes and jaw jacking at Phasm, kill the sanitation worker bullshyt, this would've been Finn's and EVERY OTHER MALE HERO IN A SCIENCE FICTION MOVIE'S characters moment to prove their worth. Which MAIN character in a science fiction movie accomplished absolutely NOTHING heroic by the end of that film at ended up in a coma?

ANH Luke? No
ESB Luke? No
ROTJ Luke? No
Matrix Neo? No (in reloaded he's in a coma AFTER displaying a new and heroic ability to control and defeat the machines in the REAL world. The machines didn't kick his ass and relegate him unconscious while Trinity saves the day)

Lord Of The Rings Aragon? No
Phantom Menace Anakin? No
Attack Of The Clones Anakin? No
Revenge Of The Sith Obi-Wan? No. Hell Anakin is the VILLIAN of that film, a traitor and child-killer, gets burned to a CRISP and doesn't get relegated to a coma



Bu...bu...BUT we all of a sudden have a supposed black lead and these established rules don't apply. Now it's "let's have the black character running scared, lying, and getting his ass beat in EVERY SINGLE PHYSICAL CONFRONTATION for 2 1/2 hours and call it character development brehs"


Call him "The Heart Of The Film" brehs

fukk outta here