Star Wars The Force Awakens [SPOILERS] Thread: SPOILERS

42 Monks

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I’ve deployed twice as an 11B and I’ve never seen anyone outside of combat arms/combat medics who were allowed to leave the base for combat missions. There’s no reason to because there is no shortage of infantryman. The same thing can be applied to the movie. There is nothing to suggest that the First Order were so hard pressed for troops that they needed to pull regular janitors away from their duty to help out for a mission. Read Finn’s bio. He was on the mission because he was groomed for it, not because they just needed an extra man and just grabbed whoever.



It doesn't work like that in the Army at least. The ASVAB doesn't choose your MOS, it just decides what MOS are available for you to choose. It doesn't matter if the recruit is the best and the brightest, there are times when soldiers get picked for details that have nothing to do with their MOS. Especially infantry. Seriously, ask any grunt and they will tell you "We do everybody's job :shaq2:"

Infantry stay getting put on bullshyt details and stuff that has nothing to do with what they signed up for:pachaha:
yal grunts swear yal special :mjlol:

like MPs arent the new infantry
 

TMNT4000

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Look I understand that people are pissed about the false advertisement of Finn being a Jedi and I can also understand some might not like the route they took with Finn's character in the film.

But this coward, sidekick, super simp accusations of Finn's character is fukking bullshyt. It's some of guys look for anything to find to shyt on him because you didn't get the Jedi that y'all wanted(like said earlier I understand why y'all mad about that).

Look I understand you don't agree the route they took with Finn but you don't have to make shyt up or go overboard on some scenes he was in.
That thread was one of the worst I've seen in the coli
Now they're saying Finn was c00ning in the movie and he was everybody sidekick.:snoop:
 
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Look I understand that people are pissed about the false advertisement of Finn being a Jedi and I can also understand some might not like the route they took with Finn's character in the film.

But this coward, sidekick, super simp accusations of Finn's character is fukking bullshyt. It's some of guys look for anything to find to shyt on him because you didn't get the Jedi that y'all wanted(like said earlier I understand why y'all mad about that).

Look I understand you don't agree the route they took with Finn but you have to make shyt up or go overboard on some scenes he was in.

Now they're saying Finn was c00ning in the movie and he was everybody sidekick.:snoop:



Really? "Making it all up?" Let's look at the FACTS


1). One HUGE issue is the racial implications of the CHARACTER. . He was emasculated from the onset to help set up Rey as smart, independent, and fierce.

2). I earlier wrote that my major issues with the character occurred mainly after the first 40 minutes, when Han showed up. I was willing to overlook that Finn's saving of Poe was filmed as selfish because he "needed a pilot" the movie itself even goes out of its way to address this, ok fine, he's scared and seizes his opportunity and happens to do some good by saving Poe in the promise. It still sets the character up as selfish, but if he gets redemption by the end then it can work within his "arc"

"Getting two kills in the first escape"...with ASSISTANCE from Poe. Finn didn't know how to pilot or gun but Poe assisted him, again I can reasonably believe this within the context of the story, no issue with this, he didn't do this unassisted or of his own merit.

On Jakku- When he first meets Rey she beats his ass. He lied to her about being in the resistance (setting him up again, as an opportunistic liar) they got attacked and SHE piloted the Falcon while he had the :why: Face almost the entire time. If you look at the sequence where he shoots the pursuing fighter, again this wasn't done of his own merit, it was because of Rey's piloting and positioning, which AGAIN the movie makes sure to announce. So we're still following the "With a little help from my friends theme". Still I'm willing to go along with this, every supposed HERO starts out with help right?


At Maz's Catina - Correct me if I'm wrong but he gets one kill, and that kill is Finn tripping over himself and stabbing the Storm trooper with the lightsaber, his ACTUAL battle with the second trooper he gets owned and Han has to save him.

The mission to Star-Killer Base- the "rescue" mission where he LIES again about knowing how to shut down the shields? The "rescue" mission where he spends most the time joking and jaw jacking while Han has to tell him to keep it cool? The "rescue" mission where he...doesn't even RESCUE the girl? :wtf: Again while Finn is portrayed as incompetent, bumbling, and comic relief, Rey is composed, resilient, and daring. There was absolutely NOTHING heroic about this sequence.

Confrontation with Kylo Ren- Getting his ass kicked and knocked unconscious while the White girl saves him for the SECOND time in the movie. So again, this is NOT a heroic moment and if you think getting your ass kicked, as the supposed LEAD MALE HERO in this movie was "heroic" then I don't know what to tell you. Dude never got to accomplish ANYTHING by himself in the movie, every "W" you gave him was assisted by someone else.


Rey and Poe, along with Finn are SUPPOSED to be the new leads. They got CLEAR hero moments that weren't reaching and were vital to the development of the AUDIENCE identifying them as heroes.

Hell Rey got TWO Hero moments saving Finn's ass, and a hero moment saving herself.

Poe led the attack that destroyed Star Killer Base



His character, as a Lead, was a blatant emasculation of the Hero's Journey

let's go over the two most important aspects of the Hero's Journey for the uninitiated.



The road of trials is a series of tests that the person must undergo to begin the transformation. Often the person fails one or more of these tests, which often occur in threes.

Campbell: "Once having traversed the threshold, the hero moves in a dream landscape of curiously fluid, ambiguous forms, where he must survive a succession of trials. This is a favorite phase of the myth-adventure. It has produced a world literature of miraculous tests and ordeals. The hero is covertly aided by the advice, amulets, and secret agents of the supernatural helper whom he met before his entrance into this region. Or it may be that he here discovers for the first time that there is a benign power everywhere supporting him in his superhuman passage. The original departure into the land of trials represented only the beginning of the long and really perilous path of initiatory conquests and moments of illumination. Dragons have now to be slain and surprising barriers passed — again, again, and again. Meanwhile there will be a multitude of preliminary victories, unretainable ecstasies and momentary glimpses of the wonderful land


Ok so let's use Finn, our supposed "Male Hero" within this frame. So he goes through his trials, he escapes and runs from the First Order, he lies to Rey and puffs himself up as a big time resistance member. All up until at Maz's Catina he confesses to Rey that he's a coward and not about that fighting life. When The order attacks and he is given the lightsaber to help Rey, he gets his ass kicked and Rey ends up kidnapped. Let's ignore all the sonning he received up until this point (gets his ass kicked by Rey upon their first meeting, gets abused by Chewie, exposes himself as a liar and coward) and say this is first failure.

Secondly, Finn hatches his "plan" (desperate gamble) to "rescue" Rey by lying and going on the mission with Han, let's ignore all of the ridiculous and corny jokes and hamming. Rey saves HERSELF using by using the Force and meeting up with them before he can even find her. So in this second trial, he FAILS.

Thirdly, going by our rule of threes, is the climatic battle with Kylo Ren. Kylo and Finn have a cinematic history going back to the movie's opening, where Finn is aghast at Kylo slaughtering those innocent villagers. This is the man who is the physical embodiment of the evil you've been fleeing, the man who kidnapped the girl you like, killed the man who assisted you, and flung said girl across the forest violently injuring her. THIS is the final test, the test where EVERY HERO OF ALMOST EVERY SCIENCE FICTION MOVIE IN THE HISTORY OF CINEMA finds the "inner strength" to triumph over adversity. It all comes to this moment.


This is the moment when your








You lose...






Moving onto the second most important aspect of the Hero's Journey


The Boon (Reward)



11]

The Ultimate BoonEdit
The ultimate boon is the achievement of the goal of the quest. It is what the person went on the journey to get. All the previous steps serve to prepare and purify the person for this step, since in many myths the boon is something transcendent like the elixir of life itself, or a plant that supplies immortality, or the holy grail.

Campbell: "The gods and goddesses then are to be understood as embodiments and custodians of the elixir of Imperishable Being but not themselves the Ultimate in its primary state. What the hero seeks through his intercourse with them is therefore not finally themselves, but their grace, i.e., the power of their sustaining substance. This miraculous energy-substance and this alone is the Imperishable; the names and forms of the deities who everywhere embody, dispense, and represent it come and go. This is the miraculous energy of the thunderbolts of Zeus, Yahweh, and the Supreme Buddha, the fertility of the rain of Viracocha, the virtue announced by the bell rung in the Mass at the consecration, and the light of the ultimate illumination of the saint and sage. Its guardians dare release it only to the duly proven."


Finn, as the loser, receives ZERO payoff for his efforts, and why should he? HEROES get payoff, redemption, and reward. Rey's payoff for the first chapter is to awaken to her true power and to meet the mystical and Mythical Luke Skywalker and (presumably be trained).

Poe's payoff and reward is to complete his original mission, getting the map to the resistance and leading the attack that destroyed Star Killer.

Finn....is in a Coma...


Won ZERO battles

Given ZERO redemption for being a coward and liar.

So here we go ONE more time with the FACTS of our "Main Male Lead"

Gets his Ass kicked by Rey
Gets his Ass kicked Chewie
Gets his Ass kicked by a random Alien
Gets his Ass kicked by a Storm Trooper
Gets his Ass kicked by Kylo Ren


No retribution whatsoever for ANY of those physical L's

Has No Force
Can't Pilot
Has No discernible skills...besides SANITATION
Lies twice
Runs away, only to come back to save the white girl and fail TWICE

So THIS your Hero's Journey Breh? Cause again, you can keep it:camby:
 

NERO

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That's your own expectation.... J.J. and everyone said NOTHING. Y'all wanted to believe something knowing damn well everything isn't what it going to be seem, or you and others was DUMB or gullible enough to believe visuals that were put out of context on purpose. You MAD because FINALLY we got trailers that don't reveal anything. It is your fault for presuming ANYTHING.

2nd of all, why should you even give a damn about a black Jedi? We HAD a black Jedi as a protagonist, we HAD a black person voicing as an iconic ANTAGONIST. What we never had was a black lead as a regular protagonist, or even a reluctant hero or even anyone coming from a STORM TROOPER perspective.

Lastly, Finn promoted as the main focal point only for a female to be the true focal point is not ANYTHING NEW when you had MAD MAX: FURY ROAD doing it in BIGGER and more blatant splash. Yet you haven't have anyone except for male chauvinists bytch about how Mad Max, the FRANCHISE lead character playing 2nd fiddle.

This is all about a lot of black people's OWN insecurity over a character that wasn't exploited by negative stereotypical racial tones, that ended up being the HEART of the film, and actually the most HUMAN with the biggest story arc. But because he's no "black Superman" just to make your own insecurity feel more secure about yourself. Y'all want to bytch about it. Dude is the NEXT Han Solo which was the BEST character in the OG trilogy...not no Luke. A REGULAR dude that was reluctant in being heroic.
You need to chill the fukk back and talk to me with a certain measure of respect. Check yourself and try again without the caps.
 

NERO

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yall sound desperate for a role model

Is there something wrong with wanting positive, competent. intelligent, honorable and powerful black representations in the media from time to time? All we usually get are skill players in the NBA and NFL and a good part of the time they are being criticized for this or that. Then of course there is the negative stuff on the six o clock news. It is natural to be excited about the prospect of a black jedi who is integral to the story but I guess some people can't see that... Or maybe they just don't want to see that.


he was never marketed as a jedi

Yes he was.


how is an imperial trooper a jedi?

How is this relevant? He is no longer an imperial trooper after he defects. Besides, he was marketed as a Jedi with the multitude of promos of him using a lightsaber in combat which has been reserved to Jedi for the whole series.

he might be later who knows but ya'll dudes need to get over it
Maybe he will be, maybe he won't. I am not sweating it either way but if it doesn't concern you then why do you care who gets over it?
 

Mr Hate Coffee

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Going after Kylo and Snoke would not have turned him to the Darkside and the Jedi have never been Pacifist. Luke letting Kylo and Snoke live undermines not only his role as the New Hope but it also undermines Anakins sacrifice and his role as The Chosen one and in bringing balance to the force. The original trilogy came down to a choice that had to be made by Anakin. He had the choice to let Palpatine fry Luke with his force Lightning thus killing his son and the last hope for the future and he had the choice to throw the Emperors old evil ass down the deathstar vent thus killing his master and allowing the New Hope to bring peace to the galaxy. He chose his son and for Luke to let some bratty Darth Vader wannabe do what he did is just out of Character for him.

Cosign.

nikkas talkin bout Luke needed to regroup... Da fukk did he think was gonna happen if he (the GOAT Jedi) just bounced and left everyone to fend for themselves?

That's my biggest beef with the movie. It has too much of that last minute, save the day shyt. It would be cool but we've literally seen this all happen before. Why would anyone think the plan would work again? From a writing perspective they need a better reason to explain Luke going into exile and leaving the Resistance to fight for themselves while some bloodthirsty goons with a super laser run rampant.
 

23Barrettcity

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My thoughts on Finn are unchanged. He simply isn't given anything worth aspiring to be. None of the major characters in the movie really like him (Except for Rey, who was nice and thirsty). He gets dissed by just about everyone at some point in the movie. The robot, Han, Chewie, Maz. Doesn't have flying skills or FS. Can't speak any of the languages that others speak. Garbage Man. Plenty of room for growth but it's just hard for me to appreciate him. Which kid would want a Finn toy for Christmas?

I'm not particularly excited for the future of the character because he's never taken seriously enough in this one, so basically, we can expect to have to sit through 3 movies of him sad-sacking and getting the occasional lucky win. I feel like his characterization is going to be similar to Pippin from LOTR....I'm not interested. Ending in a coma came off as dumb as I thought it would. They build up this decent little relationship throughout the movie, and right when it starts getting really emotional...they decide to abandon it with a COMA plot-device? Ridiculous, and a little cowardly.

I will say that his character motivations seemed clearer to me than for others. He starts off fleeing, he starts to care for Rey a bit, but not enough to stay with her and the droid. After she's captured by Kylo Ren however, someone who he knows from first hand experience to be extremely dangerous, he has a change of heart and wants to fight for her. It's not the most original of plot-lines, but a guy wanting to save a girl he likes is classic and relatable....:manny:

Here's to T'Challa wiping the taste of Finn outta my mouth. Hell, matter of fact....here's to black filmmakers rising to make their own mythologies, so that we don't have to latch onto white/jewish properties that will only serve to let us down.

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Having said all that....the movie itself? It's not bad. Not great, but certainly better than all the prequels. I'd put it on par with ROTJ.

7/10

ESB >> ANH >> ROTJ = TFA >>>>> AOTC = ROTS >>>>>>> TPM

Although it doesn't belong on the ESB/ANH tier, it's still on the "good half" of the franchise.

Most importantly, it actually *felt* like SW, which is something the prequels weren't able to do.

There was a whimsical/magical appeal to everything, the world was believable, all the puppetry, costumes, actual dirt and grit...really made this world come alive. The way how they all sort of come together through chance/coincidence, and how all of the plot points kind of weave in and out of one another, really hit the mark.

Nevertheless...there were some script issues, JJ clearly needed more time to work out some kinks. That scene when they are in the cargo ship with the gangs was completely unnecessary. The final x-wing battle is an absolute mess, probably the worst in the franchise. You can tell there was a lot cut out of this. Destroying those Republic planets meant nothing, no where near the impact of the Alderan destruction of ANH.

JJ moves too fast as well. There was one particular part that really needed to be driven home but was not : When Rey is struck by the beauty of Maz's planet. She's lived her whole life as a desert scavenger, and when she arrives on this beautiful forest planet..they give her a line...and that's it. Didn't work for me. That's a moment you have to latch onto and make MEAN something.

Finn confessing that he wasn't a Resistance fighter also needed to be more impactful. That needs to be the moment where he spills his guts, and she feels as though his betrayal validates why she doesn't trust anyone makes her want to go back to a life of solitude on Jakku. Instead, it's just :

"Finn : You looked at me all thirsty so I lied, my bad babe.

Rey : :martin:"

The acting performances are fine. I think it goes without saying that it was hard for me to watch that Finn character turn out the way he did...but I can acknowledge that Boyega did the damn thing as far as ACTING went. Good comedic timing. He had some lines that could have been extra cringey that he managed to make work.

Ridley....interesting. She's basically the most Star-Warsy actress that has ever Star-Warred in a Star Wars movie....:russ:I don't get the "A New Star Is Born" stuff, this is certainly no J-Law in Hunger Games, not by ANY stretch... but she did well enough to sink into the part that she was given. Only thing that maybe should have been cooled down was some of her wide-eyed enthusiasm, particularly on the falcon. Will be interesting to see where she goes from here.

Adam Driver...I liked the character and his performance was believable. That scene where he was interrogating Rey was surprisingly....kind of rapey. I think at one point he said "I can take what I want", obviously he was talking about information, but there was definitely some subtext there. I like the idea of him struggling to stay away from the light.

Harrison....not grumpy, good enough for me.

Fisher....didn't like her performance, apparently, she had quite a bit cut out and I think it's just that she doesn't have it anymore. She was supposedly, originally going to be this militant, all worn and torn from the war, I kinda didn't get that here. I kinda just got "this is Carrie Fisher's expected cameo, take it or leave it"....:ld:

Gleeson as Hux...I actually fukked with him, as well as his Nazi speech. Glad to see an Imperial Officer with the authority of Tarkin. He was straight FLEXING on Ren....:pachaha:

Isaac as Poe was good. He kinda captured some of that doe-eyed enthusiasm that Luke had in ANH. I expect him to have more to do next time, although, I do think that he's going to remain an "elevated Wedge".

The music was forgettable. Williams is flabby and sick.

TL,DR : Decent movie, not groundbreaking.
Poe Han chewy all like Finn . Doesn't leia give him props for rejecting FO as well . You weren't going to like Finn unless he was kicking ass like black panther anyway it seems . You completely glossing over why Finn wouldn't brag about being in FO to people as if that's a logical thing to do . Your remembering stuff wrong as well he came clean told her why he was running as the FO was dangerous and he never wanted to fight for them again . He actually came back WITHOUT knowing Rey is captured he decides to once he sees the starkiller fired . Rey is captured later . And it's thirsty to like someone ? Smh :snoop: I guess every romantic interest in every movie is thirsty .
 

Pifferry

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Poe Han chewy all like Finn . Doesn't leia give him props for rejecting FO as well . You weren't going to like Finn unless he was kicking ass like black panther anyway it seems . You completely glossing over why Finn wouldn't brag about being in FO to people as if that's a logical thing to do . Your remembering stuff wrong as well he came clean told her why he was running as the FO was dangerous and he never wanted to fight for them again . He actually came back WITHOUT knowing Rey is captured he decides to once he sees the starkiller fired . Rey is captured later . And it's thirsty to like someone ? Smh :snoop: I guess every romantic interest in every movie is thirsty .
Thoughts on the TLR thread :lupe:
 

CHL

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Ain't not goddamn WAY if Finn were white he would've taken all of those L's WITH zero payoff. He would've gotten the standard Hero's Journey THAT ALL White male protagonists get in Science Fiction/Fantasy movies.
Wait hang on a second. The role of Finn was already determined before casting and it was made clear that he could be any "colour". It's not like Abrams radically changed the role of Finn after John Boyega was casted
 

NERO

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It as never explicitly stated he was a Jedi , just that he used a light saber which he does
Since I saw the alert that you quoted me I will reply anyway. It has been strongly implied that Finn would be a force user in the ad campaigns for quite some time. Of course they never came out and said it so you are technically right but come on. You think a 8 year old kid who got a Finn w/lightsaber toy understands the concept of misdirection as it pertains to this film's ad campaigns and toy design? Spare me.
 
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