Something is wrong: Where do black people come from?

Tommy Knocks

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It is the same time period

1pU1Sgd.png




San people are older, breh. Nilotic people and Ethiopians aren't a synonymous group either.


We were already in the West and Central parts. I think you are assuming that we where isolated from the East but Nilo people have always admixed and migrated with our people, not so much Afro-Asiatic speakers. The Sahara stretched from Niger to Egypt with lush lands so of course there was interaction but that definitely dwindled down when it dried out which is why Bantu people show up in 4000 BC and Badari culture and the Great Pyramids emerge in 4000 BC. I have no doubt that Nilo people retreated to areas where West and Central Africans lived whenever foreign invasion occurred but that does not change the base of those people.
Agree and disagree. we're both meeting at a grey area. Because earlier you indicated we came from the Niger area, which I too believe, but niger-congo people have no relations east. see? so when did we migrate west? the only people showing migration back and forth between the regions are Nilo-Saharan.

I do agree that ethiopians and nilos arent the same people. ethiopians are kushiites.

check out this tree branch. tell me what you think

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nilo-Saharan

btw. studies show that meroeitic language came from these people as well.
 

Tommy Knocks

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It is the same time period

1pU1Sgd.png




San people are older, breh. Nilotic people and Ethiopians aren't a synonymous group either.


We were already in the West and Central parts. I think you are assuming that we where isolated from the East but Nilo people have always admixed and migrated with our people, not so much Afro-Asiatic speakers. The Sahara stretched from Niger to Egypt with lush lands so of course there was interaction but that definitely dwindled down when it dried out which is why Bantu people show up in 4000 BC and Badari culture and the Great Pyramids emerge in 4000 BC. I have no doubt that Nilo people retreated to areas where West and Central Africans lived whenever foreign invasion occurred but that does not change the base of those people.
man whoever wrote that bit about the assyrian empire and lake of chad is a fukking idiot or racist. He's trying to state that social complexities came into the region because of the assyrians when it was the nubians who occupied assyria first. :what:
 

Poitier

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Agree and disagree. we're both meeting at a grey area. Because earlier you indicated we came from the Niger area, which I too believe, but niger-congo people have no relations east. see? so when did we migrate west? the only people showing migration back and forth between the regions are Nilo-Saharan.

check out this tree branch. tell me what you think

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nilo-Saharan

btw. studies show that meroeitic language came from these people as well.

No, I'm not saying we have no relations East but to act like the majority of our ancestry wasn't doing big things in the West is kind of disrespectful.

1. The first migrations West happened before we were Homo sapien sapien

2. The second migrations West happened when the Sahara became wet. So for example, people from Nigeria to Libya to Egypt probably went back and forth trading and such. All of these cultures were fishing + hunter/gatherer cultures. This interactions was mitigated when the Sahara dried up. The Afro-Asiatic people of Upper Egypt would start Badari culture and Niger-Congo people would began their expansion based off the Niger river.

3. The last migrations happened with the ebbs and flow of Nubia. Whenever Nubia was conquered? Those Nilos probably migrated to areas already inhabited by Niger-Congo people (or to Upper Egypt) and admixed..



man whoever wrote that bit about the assyrian empire and lake of chad is a fukking idiot or racist. He's trying to state that social complexities came into the region because of the assyrians when it was the nubians who occupied assyria first. :what:

It states (on the earlier pages of the PDF) that Nubia civilized Assyria but Nubia culture didn't civilize the Great Lakes because the Semitic roots of the Kanem language.
 

Tommy Knocks

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No, I'm not saying we have no relations East but to act like the majority of our ancestry wasn't doing big things in the West is kind of disrespectful.

1. The first migrations West happened before we were Homo sapien sapien

2. The second migrations West happened when the Sahara became wet. So for example, people from Nigeria to Libya to Egypt probably went back and forth trading and such. All of these cultures were fishing + hunter/gatherer cultures. This interactions was mitigated when the Sahara dried up. The Afro-Asiatic people of Upper Egypt would start Badari culture and Niger-Congo people would began their expansion based off the Niger river.

3. The last migrations happened with the ebbs and flow of Nubia. Whenever Nubia was conquered? Those Nilos probably migrated to areas already inhabited by Niger-Congo people (or to Upper Egypt) and admixed..





It states (on the earlier pages of the PDF) that Nubia civilized Assyria but Nubia culture didn't civilize the Great Lakes because the Semitic roots of the Kanem language.
There's no fossils showing niger-congo before 1,000BC if you can find it, show me. the first signs of niger-congo, from what I can tell are the Mande people. Oral tradition states the Mande people came from the Bafour people. The bafour people oddly enough, are part nilo, part negro, part berber. or if you look at it backwards, where all 3 of us split from. Apparently the Bafour roamed around 1,600 BC.

1. agreed, but homo sapien sapien comes from east, everyone west died out before HSS moved in.

2. agreed. however those people weren't afro-asiatic, they were nilo-saharan

3. see first paragraph.
 

Tommy Knocks

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Oral tradition states the Mande people came from the Bafour people. The bafour people oddly enough, are part nilo, part negro, part berber. or if you look at it backwards, where all 3 of us split from. .
see I was right!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soninke_people

The Soninke (also called Sarakole, Seraculeh, or Serahuli) are a Mandé people who descend from the Bafour and are closely related to the Imraguen of Mauritania. They speak the Soninke language, a Mande language. They were the founders of the ancient empire of Ghana c. 750-1240 CE.
:banderas:
 

Poitier

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There's no fossils showing niger-congo before 1,000BC if you can find it, show me. the first signs of niger-congo, from what I can tell are the Mande people. Oral tradition states the Mande people came from the Bafour people. The bafour people oddly enough, are part nilo, part negro, part berber. or if you look at it backwards, where all 3 of us split from. Apparently the Bafour roamed around 1,600 BC.

1. agreed, but homo sapien sapien comes from east, everyone west died out before HSS moved in.

2. agreed. however those people weren't afro-asiatic, they were nilo-saharan

3. see first paragraph.

Maybe no fossils but there are paintings, crop tools and pottery long before 1000 BC.

1. Died out or admixed and taken over i.e. Neanderthals in Europe and

2. What makes you think Badari culture was Nilo-Saharan people? I thought it was established albeit a generalization/ simplifciation that Upper Egypt = Afro Asiatic and Lower Egypt/ Sudan = Nilo-Saharan


The Bafour may have been a settled people at the time of the Neolithic Era.[3]

The Neolithic Era was from 10,000 BC to 4000 BC. They were already there.
 

Tommy Knocks

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Maybe no fossils but there are paintings, crop tools and pottery long before 1000 BC.

1. Died out or admixed and taken over i.e. Neanderthals in Europe and

2. What makes you think Badari culture was Nilo-Saharan people? I thought it was established albeit a generalization/ simplifciation that Upper Egypt = Afro Asiatic and Lower Egypt/ Sudan = Nilo-Saharan





The Neolithic Era was from 10,000 BC to 4000 BC. They were already there.
I dont think we bred much with them.

Homo heidelbergensis is L2 I think. when you look at Kenya's history, it states that pygmies were their first, they call them khosian type people, who were then replaced by Nilo Cushytic people.

Also, check out what Pharaoh Pepi II writes in 2,000BC

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pepi_II_Neferkare

A glimpse of the personality of the pharaoh while he was still a child can be found in a letter he wrote to Harkhuf, a governor of Aswan and the head of one of the expeditions he sent into Nubia. Sent to trade and collect ivory, ebony, and other precious items, he captured a pygmy. News of this reached the royal court, and an excited young king sent word back to Harkhuf that he would be greatly rewarded if the pygmy were brought back alive, where he would have likely served as an entertainer for the court.

No mention of other humans, just pygmies. so this conincides with both Bafour and Kenyan history, that no one else were in the region before these 2 Nilo people got there. I believe we came from Nilo-Saharans and evolved/changed gradually around 1,000BC.
 

Sinnerman

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have you guys looked into the phoenician expedition that was sent around africa in 2000bc by Necho II? it might help a lil

according to Herodotus

For my part I am astonished that men should ever have divided Libya, Asia, and Europe as they have, for they are exceedingly unequal. Europe extends the entire length of the other two, and for breadth will not even (as I think) bear to be compared to them. As for Libya, we know it to be washed on all sides by the sea, except where it is attached to Asia. This discovery was first made by Necos[1], the Egyptian king, who on desisting from the canal which he had begun between the Nile and the Arabian Gulf, sent to sea a number of ships manned by Phoenicians, with orders to make for the Pillars of Hercules[2], and return to Egypt through them, and by the Mediterranean. The Phoenicians took their departure from Egypt by way of the Erythraean Sea, and so sailed into the southern ocean. When autumn came, they went ashore, wherever they might happen to be, and having sown a tract of land with corn, waited until the grain was fit to cut. Having reaped it, they again set sail; and thus it came to pass that two whole years went by, and it was not till the third year that they doubled the Pillars of Hercules, and made good their voyage home. On their return, they declared - I for my part do not believe them, but perhaps others may - that in sailing round Libya they had the sun upon their right hand.[3] In this way was the extent of Libya first discovered.

43. Next to these Phoenicians the Carthaginians, according to their own accounts, made the voyage. For Sataspes, son of Teaspes the Achaemenian, did not circumnavigate Libya, though he was sent to do so; but, fearing the length and desolateness of the journey, he turned back and left unaccomplished the task which had been set him by his mother. This man had used violence towards a maiden, the daughter of Zopyrus, son of Megabyzus, and King Xerxes was about to impale him for the offence, when his mother, who was a sister of Darius, begged him off, undertaking to punish his crime more heavily than the king himself had designed. She would force him, she said, to sail round Libya and return to Egypt by the Arabian Gulf. Xerxes gave his consent; and Sataspes went down to Egypt, and there got a ship and crew, with which he set sail for the Pillars of Hercules. Having passed the Straits, he doubled the Libyan headland, known as Cape Soloeis[4], and proceeded southward. Following this course for many months over a vast stretch of sea, and finding that more water than he had crossed still lay ever before him, he put about, and came back to Egypt. Thence proceeding to the court, he made report to Xerxes, that at the farthest point to which he had reached, the coast was occupied by a dwarfish race, who wore a dress made from the palm-tree. These people, whenever he landed, left their towns and fled away to the mountains; his men, however, did them no wrong, only entering into their cities and taking some of their cattle. The reason why he had not sailed quite round Libya was, he said, because the ship stopped, and would not go any further. Xerxes, however, did not accept this account for true; and so Sataspes, as he had failed to accomplish the task set him, was impaled by the king's orders in accordance with the former sentence. One of his eunuchs, on hearing of his death, ran away with a great portion of his wealth, and reached Samos, where a certain Samian seized the whole. I know the man's name well, but I shall willingly forget it here.






  • 1. We may infer, from Neco's ordering the Phoenicians to come round by the "Pillars of Hercules," that the form of Africa was already known, and that this was not the first expedition which had gone round it.
    2. They were so called, not from the Greek hero, but from the Tyrian deity, whose worship was always introduced by the Phoenicians in their settlements.
    3. Here the faithful reporting of what he did not himself imagine true has stood our author in good stead. Few would have believed the Phoenician circumnavigation of Africa had it not been vouched for by this discovery. When Herodotus is blamed for repeating the absurd stories which he had been told, it should be considered what we must have lost had he made it a rule to reject from his History all that he thought unlikely.
    4. The modern Cape Spartel.
 

Poitier

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I dont think we bred much with them.

Homo heidelbergensis is L2. when you look at Kenya's history, it states that pygmies were their first, they call them khosian type people, who were then replaced by Nilo Cushytic people.

Also, check out what Pharaoh Pepi II writes in 2,000BC

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pepi_II_Neferkare



No mention of other humans, just pygmies. so this conincides with both Bafour and Kenyan history, that no one else were in the region before these 2 Nilo people got there. I believe we came from Nilo-Saharans and evolved/changed gradually around 1,000BC.

Kenya? No one was there because humans were further West or North :yeshrug:


Once again, pygmies are just mutated Bantus and Niger-Congo people were already in the West. It makes no sense for Pharoah Pepi II to come into contact with Niger-Congo people who were simple farmers. We just peaked later than the Ancient Egyptians (who had Near East empires to exchange with and grow quicker) but are the Mongols of Africa genetically :pachaha:
 

Poitier

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Thence proceeding to the court, he made report to Xerxes, that at the farthest point to which he had reached, the coast was occupied by a dwarfish race, who wore a dress made from the palm-tree. These people, whenever he landed, left their towns and fled away to the mountains; his men, however, did them no wrong, only entering into their cities and taking some of their cattle.

Historical accounts of pygmies are always funny to me :deadrose:
 

Tommy Knocks

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Kenya? No one was there because humans were further West or North :yeshrug:


Once again, pygmies are just mutated Bantus and Niger-Congo people were already in the West. It makes no sense for Pharoah Pepi II to come into contact with Niger-Congo people who were simple farmers. We just peaked later than the Ancient Egyptians (who had Near East empires to exchange with and grow quicker) but are the Mongols of Africa genetically :pachaha:
nikka no one in west africa would agree with thhat shyt, wtf 'pygmies are mutated bantus' :what: do you know what causes their stunt in growth? it doesnt even make sense since it doesnt match our migration pattern. :what:

and so it makes sense that Pepi would come in contact with pygmies but not full grown homo sapien sapiens? :what:

Soninke people are who we are, Niger is where we come from, we traveled to west africa by way of Niger river. It's quite apparent now. We come from the East which is why the earliest stages of ancient egypt resemble our artwork. See Pharaoh Memes and mummies of that time.
 

Tommy Knocks

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I found the path.

Its called the Sahel.

Around 2,500bc the area dried and split the desert and sub tropic. this is the path they walked from east to west. Still not sure which tribes were the first. there's a huge gap from 500BC -500AD. Lot of drama with berbers and arabs, EVERYONE was scrambling through here, its pretty crazy...its like a bottle neck. There's indication the Bafour people could be the first settlers. They're mixed with subsaharan, berber and semite. Later on the Mande people split from them......those would be the people to create the great Mali and Ghana empire.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sahel
800px-Sahel_Map-Africa_rough.png
this is the path we took to get to west africa.

when I wrote that I didnt know who were the people to cross, but now I know, it was the Bafour people. This is where the splits happen
 

Poitier

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nikka no one in west africa would agree with thhat shyt, wtf 'pygmies are mutated bantus' :what:

and so it makes sense that Pepi would come in contact with pygmies but not full grown homo sapien sapiens? :what:

Soninke people are who we are, Niger is where we come from, we traveled to west africa by way of Niger river. It's quite apparent now. We come from the East which is why the earliest stages of ancient egypt resemble our artwork. See Pharaoh Memes and mummies of that time.

:snoop:

This is so misguided and sad. Niger is apart of the Sahara and Egypt is part of the Sahara. They share early similarities because they interacted before the Sahara dried up. The Soninke people do not account for all Niger-Congo people nor were they the first to inhabit Niger.

The researchers identified an ancestral and autochthonous lineage of mtDNA shared by Pygmies and Bantus, suggesting that both populations were originally one, and that they started to diverge from common ancestors around 70,000 years ago. After a period of isolation, during which current phenotype differences between Pygmies and Bantu farmers accumulated, Pygmy women started marrying male Bantu farmers (but not the opposite). This trend started around 40,000 years ago, and continued until several thousand years ago. Subsequently, the Pygmy gene pool was not enriched by external gene influxes. The Bantu farmers’ gene pool, on the contrary, was enriched during the so-called “Bantu expansions,” an event corresponding to technological, demographic, and linguistic advances in the late Stone Age. “Generally speaking, variability in mtDNA among Pygmies was found to be much weaker than among Bantus, indicating that the maternal gene pool among modern Pygmies comes from a small number of common ancestors,” explains Lluis Quintana-Murci,

http://www2.cnrs.fr/en/1164.html

I've posted a scientific study

this is the path we took to get to west africa.

when I wrote that I didnt know who were the people to cross, but now I know, it was the Bafour people. This is where the splits happen

People lived above the Sahel in the Sahara, man. We didn't cross there originally. The Bafours came from the Sahara.

According to their oral tradition, they lived in the Western Sahara and gradually migrated southward.

Not East to West
 

Tommy Knocks

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:snoop:

This is so misguided and sad. Niger is apart of the Sahara and Egypt is part of the Sahara. They share early similarities because they interacted before the Sahara dried up. The Soninke people do not account for all Niger-Congo people nor were they the first to inhabit Niger.



http://www2.cnrs.fr/en/1164.html

I've posted a scientific study



People lived above the Sahel in the Sahara, man. We didn't cross there originally. The Bafours came from the Sahara.



Not East to West
You just single handily debunked your own claim. at one point we all shared the same ancestors. your link basically shows that we ARENT the same people, but that we came from the same ancestor, no shyt we did. we also came from the same ancestor with white people, doesnt mean we're the same people. that paragraph is telling you that we split some 70k years ago, and you think we're still the same people???????:snoop:

Soninke people are Mande people. Mandinka to be exact. Mandinka haplogroups is the single largest marker in african americans :heh:

I didn't say people DIDNT live above the Sahel, those would have been berbers so of course they did, but we're not talking bout them. Yes Niger shares that sahara with Egypt, thanks for realizing where we came from now. by way of the Sahel.
 

Poitier

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You just single handily debunked your own claim. at one point we all shared the same ancestors. your link basically shows that we ARENT the same people, but that we came from the same ancestor, no shyt we did. we also came from the same ancestor with white people, doesnt mean we're the same people. that paragraph is telling you that we split some 70k years ago, and you think we're still the same people???????:snoop:

Soninke people are Mande people. Mandinka to be exact. Mandinka haplogroups is the single largest marker in african americans :heh:

I didn't say people DIDNT live above the Sahel, those would have been berbers so of course they did, but we're not talking bout them. Yes Niger shares that sahara with Egypt, thanks for realizing where we came from now. by way of the Sahel.

:snoop:


Berbers were not the only people above the Sahel. Why would we come from Egypt via the Sahel when the Sahara was teeming with life? :what:

And no shyt we aren't pygmies but if we (Bantus) diverged 70k years ago and pygmies are ancestral to West and Central Africa then do some deduction :heh:

The Mandinka migrated west from the Niger River basin
 
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