Something is wrong: Where do black people come from?

[Poitier]

"Climatic cycles acted as a pump, alternately attracting African peoples onto the Sahara, then expelling them as the aridity returned (Keita 1990). Specialists in predynastic archaeology have recently proposed that the last climate-driven expulsion impelled the Saharans...into the Nile Valley ca. 5000-4500 BCE, where they intermingled with indigenous hunter-fisher-gatherer people already there (Hassan 1989; Wetterstorm 1993). Such was the origin of the distinct Egyptian populace, with its mix of agriculture/pastoralism and hunting/fishing. The resulting Badarian people, who developed the earliest Predynastic Egyptian culture, already exhibited the mix of North African and Sub-Saharan physical traits that have typified Egyptians ever since (Hassan 1985, Yurco 1989; Trigger 1978; Keita 1990; Brace et al. 1993)... Language research suggests that this Saharan-Nilotic population became speakers of the Afro-Asiatic languages.... Semitic was evidently spoken by Saharans who crossed the Red Sea into Arabia and became ancestors of the Semitic speakers there, possibly around 7000 BC... In summary we may say that Egypt was a distinct North African culture rooted in the Nile Valley and on the Sahara."[94]

The 5.9 kiloyear event was one of the most intense aridification events during the Holocene Epoch. It occurred around 3900 BC (5,900 years BP), ending the Neolithic Subpluvial and probably initiated the most recent desiccation of the Sahara desert.



Thus, it also triggered worldwide migration to river valleys, such as from central North Africa to the Nile valley, which eventually led to the emergence of the first complex, highly organised, state-level societies in the 4th millennium BC.[1] It is associated with the last round of the Sahara pump theory.

Someone mentioned the pump theory. So basically, you got humans already living all across Africa and that includes the Sahara which was rich with vegetation and life. That shyt dried up and a portion of that population decided to either go West to the Niger river or East to the Nile river and integrate with the population already there. Berber populations stayed of course.




I'll end this with a scene from 2001 a space odyssey of our evolutionary ancestors in the rift valleys of East Africa

 

[Poitier]

Here

**E1b1a (V100) This population is one of two important populations to spring out of the Ethiopian Plateau, E1b1a effect became the most dominant population in Subsaharan Africa

• E1b1a (M2) This population grew in enough numbers in the Ethiopian lowlands to be able to cross into the territories of Paleo Africans on their West
  • E1b1a (L576) This population represents an East to West thrust in Africa, only E1b1a lineage able to survive crossing the A1b1 territories
    • ***E1b1a (L86.1) This mutation indicates that the population crossed the A1b1 dominated Grassland into the regions West of the great Lakes
    • ----------------------------------

** where/when we left and split from them.

***when we mutated.

http://www.thegeneticatlas.com/E1b1a.htm

I found the path.

Its called the Sahel.

Around 2,500bc the area dried and split the desert and sub tropic. this is the path they walked from east to west. Still not sure which tribes were the first. there's a huge gap from 500BC -500AD.

Our migration from East to West explains hominids spreading throughout Africa, not modern humans. There was another wave from the Sahara that reintegrated back East and West. Our ancestors had already populated that area for multiple millennia at that point. Also should note that they assume it was in the Ethiopian highlands because current day populations have those markers in those areas but the oldest hominids are consistently found in Chad and Kenya. All in all, this was a good thread and a great deal was learned from it.

 

[Tommy Knocks]

Our migration from East to West explains hominids spreading throughout Africa, not modern humans. There was another wave from the Sahara that reintegrated back East and West. Our ancestors had already populated that area for multiple millennia at that point. Also should note that they assume it was in the Ethiopian highlands because current day populations have those markers in those areas but the oldest hominids are consistently found in Chad and Kenya. All in all, this was a good thread and a great deal was learned from it.

the problem with your theory is that between 10,000-3,000BC west africa was flooded. all hominids in the area had disappeared. see Pump Theory.

 

[Poitier]

the problem with your theory is that between 10,000-3,000BC west africa was flooded. all hominids in the area had disappeared. see Pump Theory.

Not at all, breh. In fact, I can't find any mention of floods.

Arkell's report described a Late Stone Age settlement on a sandbank of the Blue Nile which was then about 12 feet (3.7 m) higher than its present flood stage. The countryside was clearly savanna, not the present-day desert, as evidenced by the bones of the most common species found in the middens — antelope, which require large expanses of seed-bearing grasses. These people probably lived mainly on fish, however, and Arkell concluded, based on the totality of the evidence, that rainfall at the time was at least three times that of today. The physical characteristics derived from skeletal remains suggested that these people were related to modern Nilotic peoples, such as the Nuerand Dinka. Subsequent radiocarbon dating firmly established Arkell's site to between 7000 and 5000 BCE. Based on common patterns at his site and at French-excavated sites already reported from Chad, Mali and Niger (e.g., bone harpoons and a characteristic "wavy line" pottery), Arkell inferred "a common fishing and hunting culture spread by negroid people right across Africa at about the latitude of Khartoum at a time when the climate was so different that it was not desert. The originators of the wavy line pottery are as yet unidentified.

In the 1960s, the archeologist Gabriel Camps investigated the remains of a hunting and fishing community dating from about 6700 BCE in southern Algeria. These pottery-making people (the "wavy line" motif again) were black African rather than Mediterranean in origin and (according to Camps) evidenced definite signs of deliberate cultivation of grain crops as opposed to simply the gathering of wild grains.[6] Later studies at the site have shown the culture to be hunter gatherers and not agriculturalists, as all the grains were morphologically wild, and the society was not sedentary.

Human remains were found by archaeologists in 2000 at a site known as Gobero in the Ténéré Desert of northeastern Niger.[7][8] The Gobero finds represent a uniquely preserved record of human habitation and burials from what is now called the Kiffian (7,700 to 6,200 B.C.) and the Tenerian (5,200 to 2,500 B.C.) cultures.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiffian

 

[Tommy Knocks]

Not at all, breh. In fact, I can't find any mention of floods.




https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiffian

They disappeared, and then the Tenerian who replaced them disappeared as well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenerian

 

[Tommy Knocks]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sahara_pump_theory

pump theory

 

[Tommy Knocks]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_migration

The Bantu first originated around the Benue-Cross rivers area in southeastern Nigeria and spread over Africa to the Zambia area. Sometime in the 2nd millennium BC, perhaps triggered by the drying of the Sahara and pressure from the migration of people from the Sahara into the region, they were forced to expand into the rainforests of central Africa (phase I). In the 1st millennium BC, they began a more rapid second phase of expansion beyond the forests into southern and eastern Africa, and again in the 1st millennium as new agricultural techniques and plants were developed in Zambia. By about 1000, it had reached modern day Zimbabwe and South Africa. In Zimbabwe, a major southern hemisphere empire was established, with its capital at Great Zimbabwe. By the 14th or 15th century, the Empire had surpassed its resources and had collapsed.

see its stating the 1 millennium bc. we weren't there prior.....

The expansion of Homo erectus was followed by that of Homo sapiens. The matrilinearmost recent common ancestor shared by all living human beings, dubbed Mitochondrial Eve, probably lived roughly 150-120 millennia ago, the time of Homo sapiens idaltu, probably in the area of modern Ethiopia, Kenya or Tanzania. Around 100-80 millennia ago, three main lines of Homo sapiens sapiens diverged, bearers of mitochondrial haplogroup L1 (mtDNA) / A (Y-DNA) colonizing Southern Africa (the ancestors of theKhoisan (Capoid) peoples), bearers of haplogroup L2 (mtDNA) / B (Y-DNA) settling Central and West Africa (the ancestors ofNiger–Congo and Nilo-Saharan speaking peoples and of the Mbuti pygmies), while the bearers of haplogroup L3 remained in East Africa. Some 70 millennia ago, a part of the L3 bearers migrated into the Near East, spreading east to southern Asia andAustralasia some 60 millennia ago, northwestwards into Europe and eastwards into Central Asia some 40 millennia ago, and further east to the Americas from c. 30 millennia ago.

 

[Poitier]

They disappeared, and then the Tenerian who replaced them disappeared as well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenerian

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sahara_pump_theory

pump theory

I've read pump theory and I'm still not seeing flooding of Niger, Chad and Cameroon. Those cultures ceased to exist because people from other parts of the Sahara came when everything dried up. In the West you got Niger-Congo/pygmy from that and in the East you get Badari culture. The Tenerians were living in the mountains so of course they disappeared.... everyone went to the rivers.

 

[Poitier]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_migration





see its stating the 1 millennium bc. we weren't there prior.....

That's because it is treating Bantus and pygmys as separate when they were the same group for millennia before that

The researchers identified an ancestral and autochthonous lineage of mtDNA shared by Pygmies and Bantus, suggesting that both populations were originally one, and that they started to diverge from common ancestors around 70,000 years ago. After a period of isolation, during which current phenotype differences between Pygmies and Bantu farmers accumulated, Pygmy women started marrying male Bantu farmers (but not the opposite). This trend started around 40,000 years ago, and continued until several thousand years ago. Subsequently, the Pygmy gene pool was not enriched by external gene influxes. The Bantu farmers’ gene pool, on the contrary, was enriched during the so-called “Bantu expansions,” an event corresponding to technological, demographic, and linguistic advances in the late Stone Age. “Generally speaking, variability in mtDNA among Pygmies was found to be much weaker than among Bantus, indicating that the maternal gene pool among modern Pygmies comes from a small number of common ancestors,” explains Lluis Quintana-Murci,

http://www2.cnrs.fr/en/1164.html

So current day pygmy people and West Africans were the same group were the same before 4000 BC

The earliest inhabitants of Cameroon were probably the Baka (Pygmies).

Current scholarly understanding places the ancestral proto-Bantu homeland near the southwestern modern boundary of Nigeria and Cameroon ca. 4,000 years ago (2000 B.C.),

Based on wide comparisons including non-Bantu languages, Greenberg argued that Proto-Bantu, the hypothetical ancestor of the Bantu languages, had strong ancestral affinities with a group of languages spoken in Southeastern Nigeria. He proposed that Bantu languages had spread east and south from there, to secondary centers of further dispersion, over hundreds of years.

It is unclear exactly when the spread of Bantu-speakers began from their core area as hypothesized ca. 5,000 years ago. By 3,500 years ago (1500 B.C.) in the west, Bantu-speaking communities had reached the great Central African rain forest, and by 2,500 years ago (500 B.C.) pioneering groups had emerged into the savannahs to the south, in what are now the Democratic Republic of Congo, Angolaand Zambia. Another stream of migration, moving east, by 3,000 years ago (1000 B.C.) was creating a major new population center near the Great Lakes of East Africa, where a rich environment supported a dense population. Movements by small groups to the southeast from the Great Lakes region were more rapid, with initial settlements widely dispersed near the coast and near rivers, due to comparatively harsh farming conditions in areas farther from water. Pioneering groups had reached modern KwaZulu-Natal in South Africa by A.D. 300 along the coast, and the modern Northern Province (encompassed within the former province of the Transvaal) by A.D. 500.[15]

You have to realize that Bantu people are a branch of Niger-Congo people...

 

[Tommy Knocks]

I've read pump theory and I'm still not seeing flooding of Niger, Chad and Cameroon. Those cultures ceased to exist because people from other parts of the Sahara came when everything dried up. In the West you got Niger-Congo/pygmy from that and in the East you get Badari culture. The Tenerians were living in the mountains so of course they disappeared.... everyone went to the rivers.

see edit.

L3 are the people that left africa. see what I tell folks is that caucasians got their features (small nose, lips) from us. Those are east african traits, take a look at a kenyan and it looks like a dark skin asian. Neotholic blacks do not have west african features.

 

[Tommy Knocks]

That's because it is treating Bantus and pygmys as separate when they were the same group for millennia before that



http://www2.cnrs.fr/en/1164.html

So current day pygmy people and West Africans were the same group were the same before 4000 BC






You have to realize that Bantu people are a branch of Niger-Congo people...

I mentioned that on page 1 and 2, and all yall said that wasnt so............

but Im starting to think so too. L2 and B are 2 different traits.

Also after talking to my mom, nah, we're not. Oral tradition states they chased them away and had conflict with pygmys.

 

[Tommy Knocks]

see edit.

L3 are the people that left africa. see what I tell folks is that caucasians got their features (small nose, lips) from us. Those are east african traits, take a look at a kenyan and it looks like a dark skin asian. Neotholic blacks do not have west african features.

Having glanced at L3.....we are the descendants of L3, not L2, who are pygmys. again, L3 indicates we came during the last wave. we're recent in west africa. I'm almost certain of that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_L3_(mtDNA)

L3e is suggested to be associated with a Central African origin and is also the most common L3 subclade amongst African Americans

L2 = pygmies and khosians....

 

[Poitier]

see edit.

L3 are the people that left africa. see what I tell folks is that caucasians got their features (small nose, lips) from us. Those are east african traits, take a look at a kenyan and it looks like a dark skin asian. Neotholic blacks do not have west african features.

Yeah, I think a lot of Kenyan tribes are admixed Bantu/Cushytic tribes so they are on some strange shyt. And yeah, a Alex Wek or Luol Deng is a very specific look to Nile Valley people.

I mentioned that on page 1 and 2, and all yall said that wasnt so............

but Im starting to think so too. L2 and B are 2 different traits.

Also after talking to my mom, nah, we're not. Oral tradition states they chased them away and had conflict with pygmys.

Well, isn't it possible they diverged long before 4000 BC and thus the conflict? Kind of how Germanic tribes came from the same source, diverged and then spent the next millennia slaughtering each other..

Having glanced at L3.....we are the descendants of L3, not L2, who are pygmys. again, L3 indicates we came during the last wave. we're recent in west africa. I'm almost certain of that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_L3_(mtDNA)


L2 = pygmies and khosians....

I think the link means it is the most common L3 haplogroup amongst Niger-Congo people... I think our ancestors were in both waves L2 and L3.

L2a is widespread in Africa and the most common and widely distributed sub-Saharan African Haplogroup and is also somewhat frequent at 19% in the Americas among descendants of Africans (Salas et al., 2002). L2a has a possible date of origin approx. 48,000 YBP.[1]

 

[MostReal]

@Poitier outta here with this mess breh you on?

 

[Poitier]

@Poitier outta here with this mess breh you on?

You're an idiot. Let grown folks discuss things to complicated for you to grasp.