Something is wrong: Where do black people come from?

[MostReal]

You're an idiot. Let grown folks discuss things to complicated for you to grasp.

I may be an idiot on this subject...still doesn't change that you are wrong on this

 

[Tommy Knocks]

Yeah, I think a lot of Kenyan tribes are admixed Bantu/Cushytic tribes so they are on some strange shyt. And yeah, a Alex Wek or Luol Deng is a very specific look to Nile Valley people.




Well, isn't it possible they diverged long before 4000 BC and thus the conflict? Kind of how Germanic tribes came from the same source, diverged and then spent the next millennia slaughtering each other..



I think the link means it is the most common L3 haplogroup amongst Niger-Congo people... I think our ancestors were in both waves L2 and L3.

L2a is widespread in Africa and the most common and widely distributed sub-Saharan African Haplogroup and is also somewhat frequent at 19% in the Americas among descendants of Africans (Salas et al., 2002). L2a has a possible date of origin approx. 48,000 YBP.[1]

Pretty sure we're L3e

The population expansions after the emergence of haplogroup L3 most likely led not only to global colonization but also to range expansions within Africa. There is an increase in microlithic/Mode 5 (Later Stone Age or LSA) technologies in the archaeological record from ∼50 ka onward throughout Africa, but this is uneven and gradual at best for much of the continent (Phillipson 2005; Barham and Mitchell 2008). Climatology has suggested more recent episodes of climate change in Africa that might have led to population movements and expansion. For example, following the last glacial maximum ∼21 ka and the Younger Dryas cold snap, moist conditions prevailed in West Africa from 11.5 to 5.1 ka (Weldeab et al. 2007), and in the Sahara, the Holocene climatic optimum lasted until 7.3 ka (Kuper and Kröpelin 2006), with a shift to the present aridity from ∼6 ka (Brooks et al. 2005). These early Holocene conditions likely influenced the spread of pastoralism into the Sahara (Brooks et al. 2005; Kuper and Kröpelin 2006). One major expansion in Africa that left a reasonably clear archaeological, linguistic, and genetic trail is the spread of Bantu speakers, alongside early domesticated resources and subsequently ironworking, that began in West-Central Africa by ∼3.5 ka, resulting in continent-wide dispersals both south and east (Phillipson 2005).

http://mbe.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2011/12/02/molbev.msr245.full

 

[Tommy Knocks]

dammit. apparently this book may have the answers.

http://books.google.com/books?hl=en...ge&q="African archaeology" Phillipson&f=false

 

[Poitier]

I may be an idiot on this subject...still doesn't change that you are wrong on this

I doubt you even could comprehend what I'm saying

I'm sorry to break it to you but we (modern West Africans) do not come from Ethiopia nor do the majority of our ancestral lineage contribute to Ancient Egypt

Pretty sure we're L3e


http://mbe.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2011/12/02/molbev.msr245.full

I have no doubt that people came from East to West (during the Wet Sahara phase) but everything I've read would indicate a significant portion of our lineage comes from L2

 

[Tommy Knocks]

I doubt you even could comprehend what I'm saying

I'm sorry to break it to you but we (modern West Africans) do not come from Ethiopia nor do the majority of our ancestral lineage contribute to Ancient Egypt





I have no doubt that people came from East to West (during the Wet Sahara phase) but everything I've read would indicate a significant portion of our lineage comes from L2

Nah man. take a look at the oxford link. We do in fact come from ancient egypt L3. this is why Ramses shares our DNA.

African americans have a significant amount of L3e, no signs of L2.

 

[The Odum of Ala Igbo]

Nah man. take a look at the oxford link. We do in fact come from ancient egypt L3. this is why Ramses shares our DNA.

African americans have a significant amount of L3e, no signs of L2.

Ancient Egyptians didn't migrate to West Africa. We may have come from the same source as Ancient Egyptians but that doesn't mean we're descendants of Ancient Egyptians breh....
I'm proud of that fact that Ancient Egypt is an African civilization but let's not lose sight of West/Central Africa being the ancestral home of most people in the African diaspora.

 

[Poitier]

Nah man. take a look at the oxford link. We do in fact come from ancient egypt. this is why Ramses shares our DNA.

Ramses shares our DNA because he comes from a common ancestor and his highest matches were Khoisan and Nilotic (the two earliest populations)

We come from a group of people who shared the Sahara with East Africans before 4000 BC and split off once the area dried up. We had nothing to do with the Ancient Egypt

 

[Tommy Knocks]

Ancient Egyptians didn't migrate to West Africa. We may have come from the same source as Ancient Egyptians but that doesn't mean we're descendants of Ancient Egyptians breh....
I'm proud of that fact that Ancient Egypt is an African civilization but let's not lose sight of West/Central Africa being the ancestral home of most people in the African diaspora.

I'm going to have to disagree. thing is, their are 2 different bantu migrations. theres A and B. this is why bantus and igbos are considered 2 different people. I come from congo, so I would be apart of group b.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sao_civilisation

Kanem is the descendents of Sao Civilization-- Kotoko Kingdom are too. Both Kanem and Kotoko are the sons of Sao who after settled in Nigeria, Cameroon, Southwest Chad. Remember earlier I spoke about the path? Sahel? They came in through there. within that time frame. and guess what time frame that was in Egypt? Same time the Assyrians came in and everyone scrambled south/southwest.

check it.

Founding by immigrants c. 600 BC
The origins of Kanem Empire are very unclear. Until today, historiographical debates oppose the followers of a foundation of Kanem-Bornu by populations from the ancient Near East and followers of a more local development. Some researches try to connect the creation of Kanem-Bornu with exodus from the collapsed Assyrian Empire c. 600 BC to the northeast of Lake Chad.[2] The intensity of scholar discussions around this theory proves that the question hasn't been solved yet, and we must be very cautious concerning early formation of Kanem-Bornu.

It coincides with when Necho I and Pstamik enter Egypt and the Nubians transfer Meroe to Kenya.

 

[MostReal]

I doubt you even could comprehend what I'm saying

I'm sorry to break it to you but we (modern West Africans) do not come from Ethiopia nor do the majority of our ancestral lineage contribute to Ancient Egypt





I have no doubt that people came from East to West (during the Wet Sahara phase) but everything I've read would indicate a significant portion of our lineage comes from L2

Tommy has done a better job than you at illustrating his points. It makes sense...yours do not. Sorry

 

[Poitier]

I'm going to have to disagree. thing is, their are 2 different bantu migrations. theres A and B. this is why bantus and igbos are considered 2 different people. I come from congo, so I would be apart of group b.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sao_civilisation

Kanem is the descendents of Sao Civilization-- Kotoko Kingdom are too. Both Kanem and Kotoko are the sons of Sao who after settled in Nigeria, Cameroon, Southwest Chad. Remember earlier I spoke about the path? Sahel? They came in through there. within that time frame. and guess what time frame that was in Egypt? Same time the Assyrians came in and everyone scrambled south/southwest.

check it.


It coincides with when Necho I and Pstamik enter Egypt and the Nubians transfer Meroe to Kenya.

You are misinterpreting your source. Niger-Congo people and Nilo-Saharan people were already in those areas. A little bit of East African admixture doesn't change the base.

 

[Poitier]

Tommy has done a better job than you at illustrating his points. It makes sense...yours do not. Sorry

nikka you stupid

 

[Tommy Knocks]

You are misinterpreting your source. Niger-Congo people and Nilo-Saharan people were already in those areas. A little bit of East African admixture doesn't change the base.

I dont think this has anything to do with the time period I'm proposing because the nubians the assyrians WERE BITTER rivals.

I mean real REAL bitter.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psamtik_II

The army that your Majesty sent to Nubia has reached the land of Pnubs....Nubians from all parts [of Kush] had arisen against him, their hearts full of anger when he attacked those who had rebelled against him there; because he was furious at those who had arisen against him. His Majesty took part in the combat as soon as he reached the battle. The rebels capitulated before a single arrow was unleashed against them....Those who tried to flee did not succeed and were brought back as prisoners: four thousand two hundred men.[6]



Psamtik II's victory stela from Kalabsha which records his campaign against Kush
As a result of Psamtik's devastating campaign, Kush's power was crushed, and its kings from Aspelta onwards lost any opportunity of ever regaining control of Egypt. Instead, the Nubian rulers decided to shift their capital further south from Napata to the relative safety of Meroë. Curiously, however, Psamtik II does not appear to have capitalized on his victory. His troops retreated back to the First Cataract, and Elephantine continued to be the southern border of Egypt.

After the nubians ran south, the assyrians didn't follow, they just went back north where they would later get their asses whooped by the persians and than greeks. those nubians continued on south andn would later prompt the Sao Civilization.

 

[Tommy Knocks]

Also, you have to keep in mind, their are Nilo Valley people and Nilo Sahara. Nilos just like Niger-Congo, have 2 different migrations and interactions.

I think we come from Nilo-Saharan people. It's proposed that, that is who berbers come from too. I believe Nilos are the key. Just like Nilos are the people that spawned everyone else out of africa. Nilos are the oldest homosapien sapien.

 

[Tommy Knocks]

When you read up on Meroe check out the dates and migration.

Excavations revealed evidence of important, high ranking Kushyte burials, from the Napata Period (c. 800 - c. 280 BC) in the vicinity of the settlement called the Western cemetery.

The culture of Meroë developed from the Twenty-fifth Dynasty of Ancient Egypt, which originated in Kush. The importance of the town gradually increased from the beginning of the Meroitic Period, especially from the reign of Arrakkamani (c. 280 BC) when the royal burial ground was transferred to Meroë from Napata (Jebel Barkal).

The city of Meroe was located along the middle nile which is of much importance due to the annual flooding of the nile river valley and the connection to many major river systems such as the Niger which aided with the production of pottery and iron characteristic to the Meroitic kingdom that allowed for the rise in power of its people.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meroë

It just so happens to coincide with when punk ass Psamtik comes into the area and pushes them away from Egypt. He was mad because Nubian Pharaoh king
Taharqa killed his grandfather, Necho.


@Poitier is reading up on the L2, and thinking we were there 4,000 years before, but that's not us. that's the pygmies. pygymies have been there that long, not us.

 

[Poitier]

I dont think this has anything to do with the time period I'm proposing because the nubians the assyrians WERE BITTER rivals.

I mean real REAL bitter.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psamtik_II



After the nubians ran south, the assyrians didn't follow, they just went back north where they would later get their asses whooped by the persians and than greeks. those nubians continued on south andn would later prompt the Sao Civilization.

It is the same time period

Also, you have to keep in mind, their are Nilo Valley people and Nilo Sahara. Nilos just like Niger-Congo, have 2 different migrations and interactions.

I think we come from Nilo-Saharan people. It's proposed that, that is who berbers come from too. I believe Nilos are the key. Just like Nilos are the people that spawned everyone else out of africa. Nilos are the oldest homosapien sapien.

San people are older, breh. Nilotic people and Ethiopians aren't a synonymous group either.


We were already in the West and Central parts. I think you are assuming that we where isolated from the East but Nilo people have always admixed and migrated with our people, not so much Afro-Asiatic speakers. The Sahara stretched from Niger to Egypt with lush lands so of course there was interaction but that definitely dwindled down when it dried out which is why Bantu people show up in 4000 BC and Badari culture and the Great Pyramids emerge in 4000 BC. I have no doubt that Nilo people retreated to areas where West and Central Africans lived whenever foreign invasion occurred but that does not change the base of those people.