So @sccit is an open zionist on a black hip hop forum?

Ish Gibor

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'Hamitic Doctrine' doesn't play any part in systemic racism other than as a justification for race-based slavery in the 19th Century which, ultimately, backfired.....

9781469621814.jpg

Yes it does. Is America as Christian based nation from its inception?



Benjamin Palmer and the 'Curse of Ham': How Genesis Became a Pro-Slavery Text



Most people do, now, in-general as it is convenient, even though it is totally inaccurate as neither exterior nor genetic characteristics can be used to exclude one ethnic group from another. That's why scientific racism is pseudoscience.​

It's scientific racism and pseudoscience, but in reality it really has and effects Black lives.

Now tell, why was this race concept created?
 
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Ish Gibor

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This is not true, when again 25% of Louisiana during the civil war were Jews, and many of them were Officials and Staff members of the Confederacy Army and Navy

You deleted the remaining part of my post. Why?

Once you understand that part you will see how it fits in history.

 
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Dafunkdoc_Unlimited

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Ish Geber said:
Yes it does.

No, it doesn't
Ish Geber said:
Is America as Christian based nation from its inception?

It's a Democracy-based Nation from it's inception and embraced 'religious freedom', but most residents believed that to be the case.



Ish Geber said:
It's scientific racism and pseudoscience, but in reality it really has and effects Black lives.

You're not getting it. Scientific racism IS pseudoscience.
Ish Geber said:
Now tell, why was this race concept created?

Because Europeans didn't understand how there could be other people in the lands they travelled to during the 'Age of Exploration' and the 'best' explanation they had at the time was 'Pre-Adamic/Post-Adamic Creation'.​
 
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Dafunkdoc_Unlimited

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NO-BadAzz said:
So you believe that there were lies on the Census reports?

I have been provided no evidence that anyone did.
NO-BadAzz said:
In a post you mentioned something about "whites" being the slave owners which you gathered from a Census report from 1860, I went and grab the actual Census report and asked you how would a Irish or Jew classify themselves, Who else do you think are lumped in the "whites" section?

I asked you what the 'race' categories were that anyone responding on the 1860 Census COULD use.​
 

Koichos

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No, I want to know your opinion.
One need only look at Tenach to find a clear biblical reference to כושי referring specifically to someone with a particular pigmentation. This carries over into Talmudic, Halochic and Medrishic literature where כושי is used regularly to refer to any black person regardless of what country he was from. Outside of population and geography, we find numerous examples in the gemoro where the Hebrew term כושי is also used for things which are unusual or distinctive: יין כושי or 'yoyin kushi' (black wine) – אתרוג כושי or 'esrog kushi' (black esrog).

We know ancient Africa from the Sahara and onwards was called Ethiopia (Cush). This is different from the modern day country Ethiopia. And yes, to ancient Greeks East India was known as Hindu Kush. I don't know if the ancient Hebrews knew anything about that part of the world. But to claim that East India was referred to the Cush as is in the Torah, that's irrational, since India linguistically and culturally doesn't form a pattern with the Afroasiatic phylum. Simply put. They do not have this history. Africa has proto-Afroasiatic languages and cultures, the most Afroasiatic and Semitic languages, whereas East India has not at all. It would make sense unless Nubia is in East India, since Nubia is Cush. If East India is Cush, how does it explain Mizraim, the Nile etc.?
That ancient Hodu and Kush were adjoined is a machlokes amoroim between Rav (Abba Aricha) and Shmuel (of Nehardea) regarding the opening verse of Esther 1:1 which says that Achashveirosh reigned "מהדו ועד כוש" (from Hodu to Kush). One states that Hodu and Kush are two countries situated on either end of the world; the other states that Hodu and Kush are situated adjacent, one next to the other, therefore the verse teaches the following: Just as Achashveirosh ruled over the adjacent countries of הודו (Hodu) and כוש (Kush) with ease, so, he ruled with ease from one end of the world to the other. Nevertheless, the Hebrew term 'Hodu' (and its Aramaic equivalent - 'Hindevo') was often associated with Kush. Whether the two were adjoined was more of a parenthetical assertion than anything.

Unless Mizraim is not the place being claimed now.
From Biblical Hebrew to Mishnaic Hebrew to Modern Hebrew, Egypt has always been known as "מצרים". The Biblical Hebrew מצרים or 'Mitsroyim' is the actual Hebrew term for Egypt. מצרים is plural and has the meaning "straits", a reference to the two sea "straits" (Tiran and Jubal) which border the Sinai Peninsula. The plurality of מצרים also denotes the dual nature of Egypt's geography, the Predynastic separation between 'Upper Egypt' and 'Lower Egypt'. In Arabic and Egyptian Arabic, Egypt is known as مِصْر/مِصْرُ‎ and مَصْر‎ ('Miṣr/Miṣru' and 'Maṣr'), also of Semitic origin and direct cognates with other Semitic words for Egypt such as that of the Biblical Hebrew מצרים. Even prior to Masan Torah, Avrohom Ovinu and Sorah Imeinu identified Egypt as מצרים when forced to sojourn there due to the famine in Eretz Yisroel. Similarly, in Aramaic, Egypt is known as מצרין (cf. מצרים in Hebrew). In the Amarna tablets which were written in Akkadian cuneiform ca. 14th century BCE, Egypt is known as 'Miṣri'; this is equivalent to how we refer to an Egyptian in Hebrew, מצרי or 'Mitsri'.

Let me put it this way. What was the language before Hebrew that gave rise to the interpretation of Hebrew.
The interpretation of Biblical Hebrew relies on the oral tradition: in particular, what a certain biblical term may be referring to (ערלה means 'covering', but how do we know this is the male membrum?), or how it ought to be pronounced (חלב can mean 'milk' (cholov) or 'fat' (chelev); יראה can mean 'fear/awe' (yirah) or 'see' (yireh) or 'appear' (yera'eh); חלק can mean 'part' (cheilek) or 'smooth' (chalak).) Many such examples in the Torah have halochic implications, meaning mitzvos we must observe. And in Biblical Hebrew the differentiation between heteronyms is a matter of vowelization which, until the medieval period, was kept entirely oral. The Saifer Torah (Handwritten Hebrew Torah Scroll) was committed to writing without nikkud (vowels), or any marks to show the ends of sentences. Thus in order to know when to stop, and how each word was pronounced, you had to know the oral tradition. In fact, to this day it is forbidden for ANY such markings to be added to a Saifer Torah. It would be rendered פסול or 'posul' (unfit) and discarded (entombed). Only the Chumesh (the printed book of Torah with written markings) and the Tenach contain nikkud. So in order to read from the scroll, you must know which vowel points belong where, and where the full stops materialize. Without the instruction of our oral tradition we are completely lost.

What do you mean by "the end of the biblical period"? Why did they stop speaking (classical) Hebrew, and what are the "somewhat" differences?
The vocabulary of Mishnaic Hebrew is largely derived from its biblical predecessor, material that underwent changes in its syntactic structure, as well as loanwords from numerous other languages, especially Aramaic. Mishnaic Hebrew is very Aramaic-y as Aramaic had become the lingua franca of the Jews during golus Bavli. לשון חכמים or 'loshon chochumim' consists of two strata: the older linguistic stratum, the spoken language of the Tannoim, is found in the Mishnah, Toisefta, and the Braisos in both Bavli and Yerushalmi, as well as the Halochic Medrishim; its successor, the language of the Amoroim, was the language of literary and religious discourse, and characterizes the Haggodic Medrishim and the gemoros in both Talmudim. (When mishnayos and braisos are being quoted the Hebrew in the gemoros is Amoroic.) The difference between the earlier (Tannoitic) and later (Amoroitic) Mishnaic Hebrew is dialectic—akin to the difference between the dialectic roots of the Aramaic found in Talmud Yerushalmi (Western Aramaic) and Talmud Bavli (Eastern Aramaic).

Biblical Hebrew is far more compact, concise and poetic than Mishnaic Hebrew, the latter of which is quite colloquial in exchange and discussion in order to rote memorization. Biblical Hebrew predominately uses a verb-subject-object word order, while Mishnaic Hebrew is generally subject-verb-object. As an illustration, the common expression "וידבר י-ה-ו-ה אל משה" that is found throughout Torah would translate literally as "and He spoke (V), Hashem (S), to Moshe (O)"; but in Mishnaic Hebrew one would generally say something like "י- ה-ו-ה ידבר אל משה" ("Hashem (S) will speak (V) to Moshe (O)"). This brings us to the 'perfect' (past) and 'imperfect' (future) tense-aspect. Notably, a 'perfect' tense command with the letter vov in front of it (a vov-consecutive) becomes an 'imperfect' tense, and vice versa. Therefore, the Hebrew word ידבר or 'yidaber' means "he will speak" (imperfect), but וידבר or 'va'yidaber' in Biblical Hebrew means "and he spoke" (perfect). (It should be noted that this is only if the vov is punctuated in a certain way, namely that a patach is underneath).)

It's indeed interesting that both language were used as a Lingua Franca. Something extraordinary must have happened during that time.
From a logical standpoint, the Mishnah, Toisefta, Braisos and Halochic Medrishim were written in Eretz Yisroel at a time when Mishnaic Hebrew was still a spoken, not yet moribund language. So it makes sense for these writings to have been scribed in Hebrew. Despite Aramaic having been the lingua franca in the Jewish world (perhaps even more so than Hebrew), a process of gradual influence by reason of golus Bavli (hence the reason for Teimanim's unique minhag of counting the days of Sefiras HaOmer in Aramaic as opposed to Hebrew since they preserved the ancient Babylonian minhag where the lingua franca of most people was Aramaic), it was considered to be the language of the common people. Jews used Aramaic in their daily speech and did so in the major Jewish population centers. Recall that there were meturgamen in the shuls for Torah layning (learning from the Saifer Torah - handwritten Hebrew Torah Scrolls) for the common folk (those who we might today call the "chilonim"), because many of them did not know Hebrew but did know Aramaic.

During the time the oral Mishnah was being committed to writing, Jewish sovereignty in Eretz Yisroel was at a low, and Judaism itself was threatened, but there was still hope that the Jewish community could once again flourish; however, by the time the Yerushalmi was interrupted, and the Jewish presence in Eretz Yisroel dwindled, taking with it the Torah academies and yeshivos, it was clear to the Jewish world that they had lost all sovereignty in Eretz Hakodesh and the golus was going to be an especially lengthy and cruel one. The Talmudim were therefore going to be used by the Jewish People in many foreign lands. It is brought down in Bavli (from one of the Amoroim of Eretz Yisroel, interestingly enough) by Yochonon bar Napocha that the malachim don't understand Aramaic. And we have an ancient tradition that each land has its own administering malach, and that these malachim are strengthened by the tefilos of the Jews in Hebrew; they are able to bring the tefilos before Hashem and claim credit for the merits of the Jewish People in these foreign lands.

The Talmudim were therefore written in Aramaic so that the malachim of golus would not be able to intercept the gemoro learning of the Jewish People. This is also why the language of the Jews in chuts lo'orets ("the land outside of Israel") has always been a language other than Hebrew, and why the gemoro is the most important part of Talmud. Since the malachim understand Hebrew but not Aramaic, certain tefilos (prayers) are only recited with a minyon (a group of ten Jews of bar mitzva age) when the Sch'china is present, that is, at shul, for instance. That is why the kaddish and many other Jewish tefilos are composed and recited in Aramaic, for Aramaic is a direct line to Hashem without intervention of malachim. Many Jewish texts which comprise Toras Ha'Sod, the mystical or esoteric parts of Torah, are written in Aramaic for this reason. Aramaic is not Hebrew, but it was holy enough that Hashem saw its inclusion in Tenach; and not only Nach, but Torah itself. We learn from Talmud Yerushalmi that Aramaic exists in all three sections: Torah, Neviyim, Ksuvim.

I am confused here. Are you saying that taken into bondage is synonyms with the C'na'an?
Not necessarily. In medieval Bohemia and Moravia, though, the widespread bondage of Slavs certainly evoked the C'na'an of Torah.

What do you mean by the "lands–Xian"?
You asked how medieval Bohemia and Moravia came to be known as 'C'na'an' by the Jews—on account of the Slavic trade—when in fact millions of Africans were enslaved by Arabs for well over a thousand years. However, this assumes that the Jews who relocated to the Bohemian lands witnessed both, and decided—irrationally—that Bohemia was more fit. When in reality, the Jews who designated the Bohemian lands as 'C'na'an' were not living in Arab lands (or at least not in lands where Africans were being traded by the Arabs to the extent to which they witnessed in Bohemia). On the contrary; these Jews sojourned in Xian Europe, in Bohemia and Moravia which lie east of the Elbe River where they witnessed firsthand the Slavs being traded en masse, after migrating from other parts of Europe.

Lastly, how far did the Hebrew topology reach and what lands did the ancient Hebrews know? How far did this topological knowledge stretch globally?
It depends on the historical period.
 

Ish Gibor

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One need only look at Tenach to find a clear biblical reference to כושי referring specifically to someone with a particular pigmentation. This carries over into Talmudic, Halochic and Medrishic literature where כושי is used regularly to refer to any black person regardless of what country he was from. Outside of population and geography, we find numerous examples in the gemoro where the Hebrew term כושי is also used for things which are unusual or distinctive: יין כושי or 'yoyin kushi' (black wine) – אתרוג כושי or 'esrog kushi' (black esrog).

What do you mean by the: "Talmudic, Halochic and Medrishic literature where כושי is used regularly to refer to any black person regardless of what country he was from"? What do you mean geographically?

That ancient Hodu and Kush were adjoined is a machlokes amoroim between Rav (Abba Aricha) and Shmuel (of Nehardea) regarding the opening verse of Esther 1:1 which says that Achashveirosh reigned "מהדו ועד כוש" (from Hodu to Kush). One states that Hodu and Kush are two countries situated on either end of the world; the other states that Hodu and Kush are situated adjacent, one next to the other, therefore the verse teaches the following: Just as Achashveirosh ruled over the adjacent countries of הודו (Hodu) and כוש (Kush) with ease, so, he ruled with ease from one end of the world to the other. Nevertheless, the Hebrew term 'Hodu' (and its Aramaic equivalent - 'Hindevo') was often associated with Kush. Whether the two were adjoined was more of a parenthetical assertion than anything.

This region from "Hodu to Cush" was controlled by the Persians, correct? Is Ahasveros the same person as Xerxes? From where to where did this empire span?

And are you saying that the Cush we know as in Africa is actually not that location? How do you explain the cultural and lingistical history in that region of East Africa if Cush is not there?


What are these twenty-seven provinces?

וַיְהִ֖י בִּימֵ֣י אֲחַשְׁוֵר֑וֹשׁ ה֣וּא אֲחַשְׁוֵר֗וֹשׁ הַמֹּלֵךְ֙ מֵהֹ֣דּוּ וְעַד־כּ֔וּשׁ שֶׁ֛בַע וְעֶשְׂרִ֥ים וּמֵאָ֖ה מְדִינָֽה׃

It happened in the days of Ahasuerus—that Ahasuerus who reigned over a hundred and twenty-seven provinces from India to Ethiopia.
Esther 1:1

From Biblical Hebrew to Mishnaic Hebrew to Modern Hebrew, Egypt has always been known as "מצרים". The Biblical Hebrew מצרים or 'Mitsroyim' is the actual Hebrew term for Egypt. מצרים is plural and has the meaning "straits", a reference to the two sea "straits" (Tiran and Jubal) which border the Sinai Peninsula. The plurality of מצרים also denotes the dual nature of Egypt's geography, the Predynastic separation between 'Upper Egypt' and 'Lower Egypt'. In Arabic and Egyptian Arabic, Egypt is known as مِصْر/مِصْرُ‎ and مَصْر‎ ('Miṣr/Miṣru' and 'Maṣr'), also of Semitic origin and direct cognates with other Semitic words for Egypt such as that of the Biblical Hebrew מצרים. Even prior to Masan Torah, Avrohom Ovinu and Sorah Imeinu identified Egypt as מצרים when forced to sojourn there due to the famine in Eretz Yisroel. Similarly, in Aramaic, Egypt is known as מצרין (cf. מצרים in Hebrew). In the Amarna tablets which were written in Akkadian cuneiform ca. 14th century BCE, Egypt is known as 'Miṣri'; this is equivalent to how we refer to an Egyptian in Hebrew, מצרי or 'Mitsri'.
Interesting, so Egypt is a reference to Tiran and Jubal, which is actually the Gulf of Suez (Red Sea)? Where does the Torah / Tenach makes the distinction between Upper and Lower Egypt? And word Mizraim has its root in Neo-Babylonian / Assyrian?

Mizraim (Hebrew: מִצְרַיִם / מִצְרָיִם, Modern Mitzráyim [mitsˈʁajim] Tiberian Miṣrāyim / Miṣráyim [misˤˈrɔjim] \ [misˤˈrajim] ; cf. Arabic مصر, Miṣr) is the Hebrew and Aramaicname for the land of Egypt, with the dual suffix -āyim, perhaps referring to the "two Egypts": Upper Egypt and Lower Egypt. Mizraim is the dual form of matzor, meaning a "mound" or "fortress," the name of a people descended from Ham.[1] It was the name generally given by the Hebrews to the land of Egypt and its people.[2]

Neo-Babylonian texts use the term Mizraim for Egypt.[3] The name was, for instance, inscribed on the Ishtar Gate of Babylon.[citation needed] Ugaritic inscriptions refer to Egypt as Mṣrm,[4] in the 14th century B.C. Amarna tablets it is called Misri,[5] and Assyrian records called Egypt Mu-ṣur.[6] The Classical Arabic word for Egypt is Miṣr / Miṣru, the name that refers to Egypt in the Quran, though the word is pronounced as Maṣr in Egyptian colloquial arabic. Some Ancient Egyptian inscriptions at the time of Pharoah Amenhotep IV refer to Egypt as Masara and to Egyptians as Masrawi
Mizraim - Wikipedia


The interpretation of Biblical Hebrew relies on the oral tradition: in particular, what a certain biblical term may be referring to (ערלה means 'covering', but how do we know this is the male membrum?), or how it ought to be pronounced (חלב can mean 'milk' (cholov) or 'fat' (chelev); יראה can mean 'fear/awe' (yirah) or 'see' (yireh) or 'appear' (yera'eh); חלק can mean 'part' (cheilek) or 'smooth' (chalak).) Many such examples in the Torah have halochic implications, meaning mitzvos we must observe. And in Biblical Hebrew the differentiation between heteronyms is a matter of vowelization which, until the medieval period, was kept entirely oral. The Saifer Torah (Handwritten Hebrew Torah Scroll) was committed to writing without nikkud (vowels), or any marks to show the ends of sentences. Thus in order to know when to stop, and how each word was pronounced, you had to know the oral tradition. In fact, to this day it is forbidden for ANY such markings to be added to a Saifer Torah. It would be rendered פסול or 'posul' (unfit) and discarded (entombed). Only the Chumesh (the printed book of Torah with written markings) and the Tenach contain nikkud. So in order to read from the scroll, you must know which vowel points belong where, and where the full stops materialize. Without the instruction of our oral tradition we are completely lost.

The vocabulary of Mishnaic Hebrew is largely derived from its biblical predecessor, material that underwent changes in its syntactic structure, as well as loanwords from numerous other languages, especially Aramaic. Mishnaic Hebrew is very Aramaic-y as Aramaic had become the lingua franca of the Jews during golus Bavli. לשון חכמים or 'loshon chochumim' consists of two strata: the older linguistic stratum, the spoken language of the Tannoim, is found in the Mishnah, Toisefta, and the Braisos in both Bavli and Yerushalmi, as well as the Halochic Medrishim; its successor, the language of the Amoroim, was the language of literary and religious discourse, and characterizes the Haggodic Medrishim and the gemoros in both Talmudim. (When mishnayos and braisos are being quoted the Hebrew in the gemoros is Amoroic.) The difference between the earlier (Tannoitic) and later (Amoroitic) Mishnaic Hebrew is dialectic—akin to the difference between the dialectic roots of the Aramaic found in Talmud Yerushalmi (Western Aramaic) and Talmud Bavli (Eastern Aramaic).

Biblical Hebrew is far more compact, concise and poetic than Mishnaic Hebrew, the latter of which is quite colloquial in exchange and discussion in order to rote memorization. Biblical Hebrew predominately uses a verb-subject-object word order, while Mishnaic Hebrew is generally subject-verb-object. As an illustration, the common expression "וידבר י-ה-ו-ה אל משה" that is found throughout Torah would translate literally as "and He spoke (V), Hashem (S), to Moshe (O)"; but in Mishnaic Hebrew one would generally say something like "י- ה-ו-ה ידבר אל משה" ("Hashem (S) will speak (V) to Moshe (O)"). This brings us to the 'perfect' (past) and 'imperfect' (future) tense-aspect. Notably, a 'perfect' tense command with the letter vov in front of it (a vov-consecutive) becomes an 'imperfect' tense, and vice versa. Therefore, the Hebrew word ידבר or 'yidaber' means "he will speak" (imperfect), but וידבר or 'va'yidaber' in Biblical Hebrew means "and he spoke" (perfect). (It should be noted that this is only if the vov is punctuated in a certain way, namely that a patach is underneath).

From a logical standpoint, the Mishnah, Toisefta, Braisos and Halochic Medrishim were written in Eretz Yisroel at a time when Mishnaic Hebrew was still a spoken, not yet moribund language. So it makes sense for these writings to have been scribed in Hebrew. Despite Aramaic having been the lingua franca in the Jewish world (perhaps even more so than Hebrew), a process of gradual influence by reason of golus Bavli (hence the reason for Teimanim's unique minhag of counting the days of Sefiras HaOmer in Aramaic as opposed to Hebrew since they preserved the ancient Babylonian minhag where the lingua franca of most people was Aramaic), it was considered to be the language of the common people. Jews used Aramaic in their daily speech and did so in the major Jewish population centers. Recall that there were meturgamen in the shuls for Torah layning (learning from the Saifer Torah - handwritten Hebrew Torah Scrolls) for the common folk (those who we might today call the "chilonim"), because many of them did not know Hebrew but did know Aramaic.

Interesting. Wasn't Aramaic spoken by the Assyrians?
 
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Ish Gibor

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Part 2

During the time the oral Mishnah was being committed to writing, Jewish sovereignty in Eretz Yisroel was at a low, and Judaism itself was threatened, but there was still hope that the Jewish community could once again flourish; however, by the time the Yerushalmi was interrupted, and the Jewish presence in Eretz Yisroel dwindled, taking with it the Torah academies and yeshivos, it was clear to the Jewish world that they had lost all sovereignty in Eretz Hakodesh and the golus was going to be an especially lengthy and cruel one. The Talmudim were therefore going to be used by the Jewish People in many foreign lands. It is brought down in Bavli (from one of the Amoroim of Eretz Yisroel, interestingly enough) by Yochonon bar Napocha that the malachim don't understand Aramaic. And we have an ancient tradition that each land has its own administering malach, and that these malachim are strengthened by the tefilos of the Jews in Hebrew; they are able to bring the tefilos before Hashem and claim credit for the merits of the Jewish People in these foreign lands.

The Talmudim were therefore written in Aramaic so that the malachim of golus would not be able to intercept the gemoro learning of the Jewish People. This is also why the language of the Jews in chuts lo'orets ("the land outside of Israel") has always been a language other than Hebrew, and why the gemoro is the most important part of Talmud. Since the malachim understand Hebrew but not Aramaic, certain tefilos (prayers) are only recited with a minyon (a group of ten Jews of bar mitzva age) when the Sch'china is present, that is, at shul, for instance. That is why the kaddish and many other Jewish tefilos are composed and recited in Aramaic, for Aramaic is a direct line to Hashem without intervention of malachim. Many Jewish texts which comprise Toras Ha'Sod, the mystical or esoteric parts of Torah, are written in Aramaic for this reason. Aramaic is not Hebrew, but it was holy enough that Hashem saw its inclusion in Tenach; and not only Nach, but Torah itself. We learn from Talmud Yerushalmi that Aramaic exists in all three sections: Torah, Neviyim, Ksuvim.

What type of Hebrew did the people of Lachish use?

Is the following correct?

Miya, a Living Language eTutor, gives a brief history of modern Hebrew.



Ask a Hebrew Teacher! Difference between Biblical and Modern Hebrew?



The Difference in Biblical and Modern Hebrew by Bill Sanford



Not necessarily. In medieval Bohemia and Moravia, though, the widespread bondage of Slavs certainly evoked the C'na'an of Torah.

In one post you say it does equal mistreatments and slavery and in another it's not, so which one is it? What also made the East European jewish communities think of slavic people as the Canaan descendants besides the mistreatments?

You asked how medieval Bohemia and Moravia came to be known as 'C'na'an' by the Jews—on account of the Slavic trade—when in fact millions of Africans were enslaved by Arabs for well over a thousand years. However, this assumes that the Jews who relocated to the Bohemian lands witnessed both, and decided—irrationally—that Bohemia was more fit. When in reality, the Jews who designated the Bohemian lands as 'C'na'an' were not living in Arab lands (or at least not in lands where Africans were being traded by the Arabs to the extent to which they witnessed in Bohemia). On the contrary; these Jews sojourned in Xian Europe, in Bohemia and Moravia which lie east of the Elbe River where they witnessed firsthand the Slavs being traded en masse, after migrating from other parts of Europe.

The medieval denotes AD 600 to AD 1500. East Africans have been enslaved by Arabs for that same amount of time as well, so where is the distinction in the interpretation?

What do you mean by "witnessed both"? Both what? And what do you mean by "Xian Europe"? So you're saying that Slavic people were enslaved at the Elbe River and deported into other parts of Europe? Are there accounts of these?

Xian geographically relates to a place in China?

Wasn't the greater part of slavic people (East Europeans) put in to slavery by the Ottoman? The Ottoman also conquered Arabs lands. I have been to Eastern Europe, places like Hungary (Magyar).

It makes me wonder about the Vikings. The Vikings were rampant all of Europe. Where do they fit in the story?

It depends on the historical period.

I am speaking of ancient Hebrews. I mean you have cited parts of the world in a time they knew about. So it's that period I am talking about.
 
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HarlemHottie

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Because the other 75% weren't.​
During the mid-1700s, Charleston was the preferred destination of Jewish emigres from London, who represented numerous wealthy merchant families. They became involved in business, trade, finance and agriculture in Charleston, with some owning plantations.

History of the Jews in Charleston, South Carolina - Wikipedia

Another cluster of slave owning jews.

Who do you think had a monopoly on the slave trade?
Interesting you should ask. I just discovered that Jewish merchants handled much of the arab trade in white slaves.

There were several major routes for the trading of Slavic slaves into the Arab world: through Central Asia (Mongols, Tatars, Khazars, etc.) for the East Slavs; through the Balkans for the South Slavs; through Central and Western Europe for the West Slavs and to al-Andalus. The Volga trade route and other European routes, according to Ibrahim ibn Jakub (10th century), were serviced by Radanite Jewish merchants.

Saqaliba - Wikipedia
 

Dafunkdoc_Unlimited

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The Wrong Side of the Tracks
Weird. Whole post about the monopoly on the Slave Trade disappeared. Anyhow, the Company of Royal African Trading had a monopoly and was run by the future King James II. It collapsed in 1672 and was renamed the Royal African Company.....

Royal African Company - Wikipedia.

It was owned by.....

House of Stuart - Wikipedia
The House of Stuart, originally Stewart, was a royal house of Scotland, England, Ireland and later Great Britain, with historical connections to Brittany. The family name itself comes from the office of High Steward of Scotland, which had been held by the family scion Walter fitz Alan (c. 1150).
 
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HarlemHottie

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In one post you say it does equal mistreatments and slavery and in another it's not, so which one is it? What also made the East European jewish communities think of slavic people as the Canaan descendants besides the mistreatments?
You're being too literal. It's an allusion, not a historical reference.

I wanted to thank you and @Koichos for such an illuminating conversation, especially this bit, which explains why ppl don't trust Jews.

The Oral Law is what distinguishes the Jews from everyone else; it is the basis of Hashem's covenant with the Jewish People. The only way to protect the integrity of the Jewish People as a distinguished collective is by concealing the majority of the information from the nations.

In fact, it might even explain the recent uptick in distrust of authorities, 'fake news,' etc. Most of our authorities (media, academia, medicine, etc) are Jewish, either by birth or conversion, and we know y'all keep secrets. :yeshrug:
 

Ish Gibor

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No, it doesn't
Yes it does. I have a question for you. Are you ethnically a Black person? If so from where are you?


It's a Democracy-based Nation from it's inception and embraced 'religious freedom', but most residents believed that to be the case.



Why is it that Africans weren't allowed to express their "indigenous cultures and religious beliefs", if there was this embraced emancipated system of "religious freedom"?

"Papal Bull Dum Diversas 18 June, 1452"?

In 1454, another bull titled Romanus Pontifex furthered that thinking, sanctifying the seizure of non-Christian lands in parts of Africa and restating the legitimacy of enslaving non-Christian people.
Disastrous doctrine had papal roots
Evidence suggests that many were baptized and took Christian names, and some, like Anthony and Mary Johnson, won their freedom and bought land. In 1628, after a shipload of about 100 Angolans was sold in Virginia, the number of Africans in the colony rose dramatically.
Africans, Virginia's First

You're not getting it. Scientific racism IS pseudoscience.
I am not "getting it"? So are you saying that Black people haven't been and aren't being dehumanized based on this "scientific racist pseudoscience"? You are saying there is nothing real to it?

41GzoKB7RAL._SX332_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg


Because Europeans didn't understand how there could be other people in the lands they travelled to during the 'Age of Exploration' and the 'best' explanation they had at the time was 'Pre-Adamic/Post-Adamic Creation'.​
Why was it that they couldn't understand other people? And what age of exploration are you talking about?
 
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Ish Gibor

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Weird. Whole post about the monopoly on the Slave Trade disappeared. Anyhow, the Company of Royal African Trading had a monopoly and was run by the future King James II. It collapsed in 1672 and was renamed the Royal African Company.....

Royal African Company - Wikipedia.

It was owned by.....

House of Stuart - Wikipedia


"According to the Navigation Act of 1660, only English-owned ships could enter colonial ports. That same year, King Charles II granted a charter to the Company of Royal Adventurers Trading to Africa. Led by the king’s younger brother James, the Duke of York (later King James II), this group had a monopoly on British trade with West Africa, including gold, silver and slaves. Thanks to England’s war with the Netherlands, the original company collapsed under mounting debts in 1667, reemerging in 1672 with a new royal charter and a new name: the Royal African Company (RAC)."
History.com

The largest company at that time was the was the Dutch company called the WIC (West India Company).

"The Dutch West India Company (Dutch: Geoctrooieerde Westindische Compagnie, Dutch pronunciation: [ɣəʔɔktroːˈjeːrdə ʋɛstˈɪndisə kɔmpɑˈɲi]; English: Chartered West India Company) was a chartered company (known as the "GWC") of Dutchmerchants as well as foreign investors. Among its founders was Willem Usselincx (1567–1647) and Jessé de Forest (1576–1624).[1] On 3 June 1621, it was granted a charter for a trade monopoly in the Dutch West Indies by the Republic of the Seven United Netherlands and given jurisdiction over Dutch participation in the Atlantic slave trade, Brazil, the Caribbean, and North America. The area where the company could operate consisted of West Africa (between the Tropic of Cancerand the Cape of Good Hope) and the Americas, which included the Pacific Ocean and the eastern part of New Guinea. The intended purpose of the charter was to eliminate competition, particularly Spanish or Portuguese, between the various trading posts established by the merchants. The company became instrumental in the largely ephemeral Dutch colonization of the Americas (including New Netherland) in the seventeenth century. From 1624 to 1654, in the context of the Dutch-Portuguese War, the GWC held Portuguese territory in northeast Brazil, but they were ousted from Dutch Brazil following fierce resistance.[2]"
Dutch West India Company - Wikipedia

"The Dutch East India Company, officially the United East India Company (Dutch: Vereenigde Oostindische Compagnie; VOC; Indonesian: Kompeni), was a megacorporation founded by a government-directed amalgamation of several rival Dutch trading companies (voorcompagnieën) in the early 17th century."
Dutch East India Company - Wikipedia
 

3rdWorld

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All I know is israelis and white Jews in general hijacked the religion..fukk all else
 
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