So @sccit is an open zionist on a black hip hop forum?

Dafunkdoc_Unlimited

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Ish Geber said:
Well, it clearly showed that the Hamitic doctrine goes back to the 6th-7th century, countrary what you've claimed.

As I showed, pre-Adamite thought precedes that by 500 years​

Ish Geber said:
I have no idea what Wikipedia is supposed to prove? Nowhere is the New World enslaved Africans were allowed to freely practice their indigenous belief-systems

Sure, they were, they just abandoned them as they fell out of favor. Some, indeed, were forced to, some converted to gain freedom, but after 1667, conversion no longer changed their status.​

Ish Geber said:
Neither was there religious freedom for the enslaved Africans to practice the heredity Islam or Judaism.

"Property" didn't have freedom to do anything in America. "Free" people did. All Africans weren't enslaved.
Ish Geber said:
As a matter of fact this was the reason to justify the enslavement of these Africans, so your claim and reasoning makes no sense.

The reason for the enslavement of Africans is they weren't protected by European laws.
Ish Geber said:
I am not talking about "everyone" or when it will stop, because that is fantasy babble. It's here and that is a fact.

Doesn't change the fact that it's pseudoscience.
Ish Geber said:
I am talking about those who take this position to impose

Those taking that position are endorsing pseudoscience.
Ish Geber said:
I speak of actual recorded historical events

Actual recorded events based on pseudoscientific beliefs doesn't make those beliefs science.​

Ish Geber said:
Elaborate how Black people are responsible for this supposed "adhering"?

This conversation.
Ish Geber said:
Are you saying that

No.
Ish Geber said:
Perhaps you can try to explain

No.​

Ish Geber said:
From where does the science of inheritance/expression stem?

Gregor Mendel
Ish Geber said:
Thanks. You have just debunked yourself.

K.​
 

Dafunkdoc_Unlimited

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Ish Geber said:
How do you know this?

91BVxiZNxFL.jpg
 

NO-BadAzz

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How do you know this?

Those are lies.

This the same guy that think people don't lie on the Census report. People wouldn't lie and classify themselves as "white" is what he thought until I provided the proper context and debunked that lie

He doesn't think nobody did this which is why he stated that most/all "white people" owned black slaves.
 
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NO-BadAzz

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Sure, thanks.​

And can you also provide lists for these as well: Italians, Portuguese, Spaniards, Dutch, Germans, Swedes, French, English.​

We are talking about the Jews many owned slaves ships.

No need to provide a list of those other groups, we are talking about the (many) slave ships that the Jews owned during this time
 

Ish Gibor

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As I showed, pre-Adamite thought precedes that by 500 years​
No, you did not and haven't. All you have done was bickering over that it's not that old. I showed you that it is and on top of that, with sources that showed the dehumanization based on this Hamitic doctrine.

This is what you posted, in the following order:

https://www.thecoli.com/posts/38626749/

No, I don't since institutional racism can be traced back directly to Virginia in 1691.......

The-Invention-of-the-White-Race-Volume-2-1050st-4163f12cc99443431ee928ad34703d10.jpg



They believe tons of other nonsense and post it on anonymous message boards.

That's about it.​

The post above was obviously rooted in another lie by you.

'Hamitic Doctrine' doesn't play any part in systemic racism other than as a justification for race-based slavery in the 19th Century which, ultimately, backfired.....

9781469621814.jpg

Where you claimed that imaginatively something backfired.

https://www.thecoli.com/posts/38626970/

It proves nothing.

It proved everything, but like a preteen you kept on insisting that you are right.

https://www.thecoli.com/posts/38637925/

Couldn't be as it wasn't even articulated until 1930. The 'Curse of Ham/Mark of Cain' thing, on the other hand, was an argument used by pro-slavery apologists in the 18th Century as a justification to continue the practice. The dehumanization precedes both by a thousand years......

Pre-Adamite - Wikipedia.​

This was your last response.

https://www.thecoli.com/posts/38648335/

Not sure what all that's for.​
This was the part where you were cornered, so you started to act corny.

This is what your "Pre-Adamite - Wikipedia" source says:

The Irish lawyer Dominick McCausland, a Biblical literalist and anti-Darwinian polemicist, maintained the theory to uphold the Mosaic timescale. He held that the Chinese were descended from Cain and that the "Caucasian" race would eventually exterminate all others. He maintained that only the "Caucasian" descendants of Adam were capable of creating civilisation, and he tried to explain away the numerous non-"Caucasian" civilisations by attributing them all to a vanished "Caucasian" race, the Hamites.

Now, is the above pseudo or not?

Sure, they were, they just abandoned them as they fell out of favor. Some, indeed, were forced to, some converted to gain freedom, but after 1667, conversion no longer changed their status.​

You are no literally making up shyt as you go along. It's documented all over the Americas that maroon populations kept it alive in isolated settlements, it was no different in the 13 colonies. In fact it was even worse. Black Americans lost more about their heritage, culture and languages.

And I posted a reputable source along for your to see (read).

"Property" didn't have freedom to do anything in America. "Free" people did. All Africans weren't enslaved.
The first Africans weren't slaves, the came as free people, from there they became indentured servitude and after that Africans were enslaved with no rights.

I have a thread on it: Irish Chattel Slaves - The Myth, by Kofi Khepera
The reason for the enslavement of Africans is they weren't protected by European laws.
You are now uttering nonsense again, as you do so often. I provided primary documentation for the beginning of the enslavement of Africans. Papal Bull Dum Diversas was issued 18 June, 1452. It can't get deeper than that. Anyway, here is more:

Exploration and trade were the most significant reasons for people to move around the world during the 15th and early 16th centuries. The French, Spanish, Portuguese and Dutch sent their merchant seamen to Asia, Africa and the Americas, where trade developed rapidly. The English, anxious not to miss out on this bounty, became experts in shipping, finance and insurance and thus major players in overseas commerce.
[…]
In 1562, John Hawkins set out on a voyage that would mark the beginning of the English slave trade. Documents reveal that he left Plymouth with the purpose of capturing Africans along the Guinea Coast. The travel writer Richard Hakluyt (c.1552-1616) says that Hawkins 'got into his possession partly by the sworde and partly by other meanes to the number of 300 negroes'. In Sierra Leone, he took a ship laden with ivory, wax and 500 Africans.

Hawkins, commanding the ship Salomon, then made the voyage from the Guinea coast to the West Indies. He arrived at the port of Monte Christi, in what is now the Dominican Republic, where they 'did deposit 125 slaves at 100 ducats each' (about £25-30 in present-day terms). The Africans were offered for sale to estate owners in the Americas, who required a constant supply of cheap labour for their sugar and tobacco plantations.
The National Archives | Exhibitions & Learning online | Black presence | Early times

"This letter illustrates how Elizabeth I attempted to divert attention from social problems by blaming Black people. It was sent to the lord mayor and aldermen of London and to mayors and sheriffs throughout the country.

The queen asserts that England has a growing population of its own and does not need the 'divers blackmoores brought into this realme'. This was followed by a declaration that 10 Black people would be deported. This was only the opening salvo in Elizabeth's campaign to remove 'blackmoores' from England."

[…]

Black Scapegoats

But while Elizabeth may have enjoyed being entertained by Black people, in the 1590s she also issued proclamations against them. In 1596 she wrote to the lord mayors of major cities noting that there were 'of late divers blackmoores brought into this realm, of which kind of people there are already here to manie...'. She ordered that 'those kinde of people should be sente forth of the land'.

Elizabeth made an arrangement for a merchant, Casper van Senden, to deport Black people from England in 1596. The aim seems to have been to exchange them for (or perhaps to sell them to obtain funds to buy) English prisoners held by England’s Catholic enemies Spain and Portugal.
The National Archives | Exhibitions & Learning online | Black presence | Early times

But let's play along. So based on what reasoning where Africans allowed the same laws in the 13 colonies?

Doesn't change the fact that it's pseudoscience.​
How does bickering over it being pseudoscience make the facts go away that Black people are being victimized by it?
Those taking that position are endorsing pseudoscience.​

So if Black people aren't endorsing it make the dehumanization of Black people go away?

Actual recorded events based on pseudoscientific beliefs doesn't make those beliefs science.​

But it does make the events have real effects on Black lives. And it's based in the believe that Blacks are inferior. Telling yourself constantly that it's just pseudoscientific beliefs, doesn't make it less horrible, or even let it go away.

Perhaps you can explain from where that thinking came into existence?

This conversation.​
So mentioning these historical events and record facts is adhering to pseudoscientific beliefs? It's not actually contradicting it?

No what and why misconstrue my post by deleting the most imported parts?

That is what I suspected. So you aren't going to explain the "racial wealth gap", false imprisonment or the funding gap between Black and white schools? The things that go directly into that racist thinking I have been addressing. Racist pseudo science or not, that affects are real.

So from where does that racist pseudo science came?

Gregor Mendel​
I know it's from Gregor Mendel, that is what I posted from the beginning. Mendelian law of inheritance.
What I am asking you is, on the basis of what did he start to observe the dominant and recessive traits and inheritance? How did he start with his first observations and conclusion?

Don't skip Cotton Mather - Wikipedia. Let's address it all.

Abstract
There were Africans in New England before there were Puritans there, and by 1700 they numbered about 1,000 out of a total population of 90,000. Roughly half of them lived in Massachusetts, and were concentrated in Boston and the coastal towns. Puritans actively participated in the trafficking of enslaved persons, importing Africans from the West Indies and sometimes selling native American prisoners overseas.

Cotton Mather’s household contained enslaved Negro servants, and his congregation at the Second (or North) Church included both merchants of slavery and persons of African descent. The pamphlet reprinted here appeared in 1706 without his name, but his authorship of it was generally known. It calls on those who held people in slavery to educate their “servants” in the Christian religion, to treat them justly and kindly, and to accept them as spiritual brethren. It includes two catechisms and other instructional materials. It advances both spiritual and pragmatic arguments: the Christian has a moral responsibility for the souls of those in danger, and the Christianized servant is more profitable to his master.

Mather’s style in this work is (for him) unusually plain-spoken and direct. He quotes only one church father (Chrysostom), one classical philosopher (Cato), and one modern historian (Acosta). Moreover, his language seems particularly fresh, almost contemporary: “Man, Thy Negro is thy Neighbour. … Yea, if thou dost grant, That God hath made of one Blood, all Nations of men, he is thy Brother too.”—and, at another point, “… say of it, as it is.”
The Negro Christianized. An Essay to Excite and Assist that Good Work, the Instruction of Negro-Servants in Christianity (1706)

JUNTO: One particularly fascinating part of your book, was your analysis of European scholarly pamphlets defending the slave trade. In particular, you discuss how many argued that Africans were “cursed.” Many of our readers will be familiar with the scriptural debates around Curse of Ham, and the idea of “hereditary heathenism” but your discussion developed a bit further, into Europeans seeing Africans as “biologically cursed?” Can you explain what that means, and how the terms differ?

KENDI: Proceeding and overlapping and always complicating the debate between monogenesis and polygenesis was the first and possibly the longest debate between racists. Since the origins of racist ideas in fifteenth century Portugal, climate theorists and curse theorists had been trying to explain the cause of inferior Blackness. [...]

Q&A: Ibram Kendi, Stamped From the Beginning

Not just one k. It's triple that amount in CAPITAL LETTERS.


The one thing a white supremacist will do is try to convince that the dehumanization of Black people isn't as bad, it's just not that bad, it's all perceived as bad, but it's actually not.
 
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Ish Gibor

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Ok, I see a book cover, but what does the book say about your claims?

Perhaps you can enlighten the public, including me that is.

The revised edition provides thereader with a review of how debates over the volume, distribution and profitabilityof the slave trade and its impact on European economies have moved on sincethe late 1970s. In this respect it is a very useful addition to the growing series ofgeneral studies of transatlantic slavery. Its usefulness is further augmented by anew bibliography of recent writings on the slave trade. In other respects, however,the book essentially follows the format adopted by Rawley in 1981. Its basicstructure remains largely unaltered, with initial chapters on the Portuguese,Spanish, Dutch, Danish and French involvement in slaving being followed bymuch more extended treatments of British and British North American slave-carrying, especially in the eighteenth century.
onlinelibrary.wiley.com
 
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Dafunkdoc_Unlimited

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Ish Geber said:
No, you did not and haven't.

Yes, I did
Ish Geber said:
This is what you posted, in the following order:

Where you claimed that imaginatively something backfired.

It didn't work on the slaves. They didn't buy it at all.
Ish Geber said:
It proved everything, but like a preteen you kept on insisting that you are right.

Name-calling also proves nothing

Neither did that post.
Ish Geber said:
This was your last response.
This was the part where you were cornered, so you started to act corny.

Lol. I'm neither 'cornered' nor 'acting corny'.​

Ish Geber said:
This is what your "Pre-Adamite - Wikipedia" source says:
Now, is the above pseudo or not?

It is pseudoscience. That's why I posted it.

I see what your issue is, you totally misread my argument.​

Ish Geber said:
You are no literally making up shyt as you go along. It's documented all over the Americas that maroon populations kept it alive in isolated settlements, it was no different in the 13 colonies.

I made-up nothing and you just confirmed it.​

Ish Geber said:
The first Africans weren't slaves, the came as free people, from there they became indentured servitude and after that Africans were enslaved with no rights.

I know that, and am not arguing against that. What I am saying is that not all Africans were slaves and followed their own doctrines, syncretized Christianity with their existing doctrines, converted to Christianity, or didn't follow any doctrine at all.
Ish Geber said:
You are now uttering nonsense again, as you do so often.

You're just angry. It happens.

Ish Geber said:
How does bickering over it being pseudoscience make the facts go away that Black people are being victimized by it?

If more people recognize it IS pseudoscience, it can no longer be used to victimize. Can't change the past.​

Ish Geber said:
So if Black people aren't endorsing it make the dehumanization of Black people go away?

Human beings are naturally 'dehumanizing' to other humans they view as 'other'. Science, however, has shown that all humans are the same. The only 'differences" are due to environment.​

Ish Geber said:
But it does make the events have real effects on Black lives.

No one's arguing the contrary.
Ish Geber said:
Perhaps you can explain from where that thinking came into existence?

Humans' natural propensity of suspicion towards those they view as 'other'.​

Ish Geber said:
So mentioning these historical events and record facts is adhering to pseudoscientific beliefs? It's not actually contradicting it?

No. Adherence to pseudoscientific beliefs caused those events.
Ish Geber said:
No what and why misconstrue my post by deleting the most imported parts?

They are important to you, red herrings to me.​

Ish Geber said:
That is what I suspected.

Adherence to pseudoscience is the cause of those.
Ish Geber said:
So from where does that racist pseudo science came?

Natural human propensity to view 'others' with suspicion.​

Ish Geber said:
I know it's from Gregor Mendel, that is what I posted from the beginning. Mendelian law of inheritance.
What I am asking you is, on the basis of what did he start to observe the dominant and recessive traits and inheritance? How did he start with his first observations and conclusion?

Peas.​

Ish Geber said:
Not just one k. It's triple that amount in CAPITAL LETTERS.

They adhere to pseudoscientific beliefs.​

 

NO-BadAzz

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So, 10? 20? 100?

Where's the list you volunteered to link?​

I'ma do like you do and just drop the books where you pull your information out from.

Documents Illustrative of the History of the Slave Trade to America: Volume IV, The Border Colonies and the Southern Colonies
 

Dafunkdoc_Unlimited

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Ish Geber said:
Ok, I see a book cover, but what does the book say about your claims?

In 1621, Amsterdam residents purchased 3 million florins in stock; of that the 18 Jews who participated invested 36,000 florins. The percentage owned by Jews after that is unknown, but the number who invested is:​

1656 = 7
1658 = 11
1672 = 10
1676 = 11

Footnotes ascribe these numbers to this book.....​

41lJEHPCN9L._SX331_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg
 

NO-BadAzz

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So, 10? 20? 100?

Where's the list you volunteered to link?​


So you're saying "freed" blacks were allowed to practice their religion and NOTHING happened to them?

I want to make sure is this what you're saying before I debunk this notion?

You already got tangled up with saying or making it appear that "only whites" owned slaves in the 1860s Census, then you tried to splain, and back-peddle your way outta that, when I produced the actual Census that "whites" "slaves" etc were only way folks would classify themselves.

You didn't take in the fact that folks lied on the Census report, Lol, Now you're saying 'freed' black folks could practice other religion and nothing happened to them, which is far from the truth lol
 
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Dafunkdoc_Unlimited

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