Should the black community adopt arranged marriages (patriarchy)?

Gloxina

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nikkas in here that advocate for infideluty also talking bout arranged marriages because its better for society and the family structure

If yall dont get out of here with this fake righreous bullshyt
Basically women get married, and sit and be quiet while their husbands cheat with the non-marriageable women. That’s how it was back in the day. We know because some of us heard our moms, aunts and grandmas fussing or saw the woman no one knew show up to the funeral. LOL
 

Gloxina

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So… all I’m reading are a bunch of alter egos, pandering, possibly bots, obtuse individuals & that’s all fun for a laugh or two, but what’s the solution? Since this is so “bad”, I’m convinced some ppl just like dysfunction.

You need a new black community, but if you let this black community do what it’s currently doing, it’s going to shyt. Again.

New black community, new constitution, arranged marriages with special implications, center around our most productive in society.
Someone up thread mentioned essentially high level match-making, which is an amazing idea. 🤷🏾‍♀️
 

Professor Emeritus

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A whole bunch of conjecture with no actual proof.

Please, name 5 countries where divorce is illegal or where women being executed for divorce is a common occurrence. I’ll wait.

He said women are killed OR disowned by their families. In a lot of those spots if you're disowned you might as well be dead because it is impossible for a woman to support herself outside of prostitution. Your family refuses to take you back because the act of leaving your husband dishonors your family. Due to property rights the husband keeps all the property and has the right to keep the kids so the woman leaves with nothing. Most employers will refuse to hire single women who don't live with their family. Landlords won't even rent to them because everyone will whisper that the woman is a prostitute, since they don't expect a single divorced woman to be able to support herself any other way. And there are fukk-all chances for her to get remarried because no other family will arrange a marriage with a divorced girl unless the husband has something wrong with him (if he's a criminal, or he already had previous wives leave him, or if he has a disability of some sort).

My wife has worked with women like this, their lives are shyt. Getting kicked out of one apartment after another, barely making ends me with shyt jobs, having to go to charity groups for handouts just to keep their kid alive. And the cops won't listen to any complaints because a divorced woman has no honor, so if a landlord kicks them out without returning the rent or an employer stiffs them the paycheck or someone molests them on the street, nothing is done. It's one step short of slavery.



In terms of some places where honor killings do happen and are used as a real threat to women who step out of line:


Egypt​

Honor killings in Egypt can occur due to reasons such as a woman meeting an unrelated man, even if this is only an allegation; or adultery (real or suspected). The exact number of honor killings is not known, but a report in 1995 estimated about 52 honor killings that year. In 2013, a woman and her two daughters were murdered by 10 male relatives, who strangled and beat them, and then threw their bodies in the Nile.


Iran​

In February 2022 a video circulated in Iran of a man, (Sajjad Heydari), in Ahvaz, Khuzestan in Western Iran, smiling and carrying the severed head of his 17 year old wife (Mona Heydari). The IRNA news agency referred to the incident as the result of an "honor killing." The wife had fled to Turkey but brought back to Iran and killed shortly after. According to human rights lawyer Yonah Diamond, "the Iranian authorities enabled the barbaric beheading of Mona Heydari -- a child bride -- for seeking a divorce from a violently abusive marriage..."

According to the medical journal The Lancet, there were at least 8,000 honor killings in Iran between 2010 and 2014, of which only a few were reported.

Article 630 of the Constitution exempts a husband from punishment if he kills if he witnesses adultery.

Iran International reports that about 60 women have fallen victim to honor killings from 2020-2021, according to a women’s right NGO in Ahvaz, "including some who were 10 or 15 years old. None of the perpetrators have been brought to justice" and few of the families have even filed a lawsuit.


Iraq​

In 2008, the United Nations Assistance Mission for Iraq has stated that honor killings are a serious concern in Iraq, particularly well documented in Iraqi Kurdistan. There are conflicting estimates on the number of honor killings in Iraqi Kurdistan. The Free Women's Organization of Kurdistan released a statement on International Women's Day 2015 noting that "6,082 women were killed or forced to commit suicide during the past year in Iraqi Kurdistan, which is almost equal to the number of the Peshmerga martyred fighting Islamic State," and that a large number of women were victims of honor killings or enforced suicide—mostly self-immolation or hanging.


Jordan​

A 2008 report of the National Council of Family Affairs in Jordan, an NGO affiliated with the Queen of Jordan, indicated that the National Forensic Medicine Center recorded 120 murdered women in 2006, with 18 cases classified officially as crimes of honor. In 2013, the BBC cited estimates by the National Council of Family Affairs in Jordan, an NGO, that as many as 50 Jordanian women and girls had been murdered in the preceding 13 years. But the BBC indicated "the real figure" was probably "far higher," because "most honor killings go unreported."

Men used to receive reduced sentences for killing their wives or female family members if they are deemed to have brought dishonor to their family. Families often get sons under the age of 16—legally minors—to commit honor killings; the juvenile law allows convicted minors to serve time in a juvenile detention center and be released with a clean criminal record at the age of 16. Rana Husseini, a leading journalist on the topic of honor killings, states that "under the existing law, people found guilty of committing honor killings often receive sentences as light as six months in prison". According to UNICEF, there are an average of 23 honor killings per year in Jordan.


Lebanon​

There are no exact official numbers about honor killings of women in Lebanon; many honor killings are arranged to look like accidents, but the figure is believed to be 40 to 50 per year. A 2007 report by Amnesty International said that the Lebanese media in 2001 reported 2 or 3 honor killings per month in Lebanon, although the number is believed to be higher by other independent sources.

On 4 August 2011, however, the Lebanese Parliament agreed by a majority to abolish Article 562, which for the past years had worked as an excuse to commute the sentence given for honor killing.


Palestine​

According to UNICEF estimates in 1999, two-thirds of all murders in the Palestinian territories were likely honor killings.

The Palestinian Authority, using a clause in the Jordanian penal code still in effect in the West Bank as of 2011, exempted men from punishment for killing a female relative if she has brought dishonor to the family. The Palestinian Independent Commission for Human Rights has reported 29 women were murdered 2007–2010, whereas 13 women were murdered in 2011 and 12 in the first seven months of 2012. According to a PA Ministry of Women's Affairs report the rate of 'Honor Killings' went up by 100% in 2013, "reporting the number of 'honor killing' victims for 2013 at 27".

Mahmoud Abbas, president of the Palestinian Authority, issued a decree in May 2014 under which the exemption of men was abolished in cases of honor killings.


Saudi Arabia​

In 2008 a woman was murdered in Saudi Arabia by her father for "chatting" with a man on Facebook. The murdered became public only when a Saudi cleric referred to the case, to criticize Facebook for the strife it caused.

The 1980 film Death of a Princess implies that the execution of Princess Misha'al in 1977 was actually an honor killing, rather than a sentence handed down by a court.


Syria​

Some estimates suggest that more than 200 honor killings occur every year in Syria. The Syrian civil war has been reported as leading to an increase in honor killings in the country, mainly due to the common occurrence of war rape, which led to the stigmatization of victims by their relatives and communities, and in turn to honor killings.


Turkey​

A report compiled by the Council of Europe estimated that over 200 women were murdered in honor killings in Turkey in 2007. A June 2008 report by the Turkish Prime Ministry's Human Rights Directorate said that in Istanbul alone there was one honor killing every week, and reported over 1,000 during the previous five years.

A report by UNFPA identified the following situations as being common triggers for honor killings: a married woman having an extra-marital relationship; a married woman running away with a man; a married woman getting separated or divorced; a divorced woman having a relationship with another man; a young unmarried girl having a relationship; a young unmarried girl running away with a man; a woman (married or unmarried) being kidnapped and/or raped.

In 2010 a 16-year-old girl was buried alive by relatives for befriending boys in Southeast Turkey; her corpse was found 40 days after she went missing.

Honor killings continue to receive some support in the conservative regions of Turkey. In 2005, a small survey in Diyarbakir in southeastern Turkey found that, when asked the appropriate punishment for a woman who has committed adultery, 37% of respondents said she should be killed, while 21% said her nose or ears should be cut off. A July 2008 Turkish study by a team from Dicle University on honor killings in the Southeastern Anatolia Region, the predominantly Kurdish area of Turkey, has so far shown that little if any social stigma is attached to honor killing. It also comments that the practice is not related to a feudal societal structure, "there are also perpetrators who are well-educated university graduates. Of all those surveyed, 60 percent are either high school or university graduates or at the very least, literate."


Yemen​

Honor killings are common in Yemen. In some parts of the country, traditional tribal customs forbid contact between men and women before marriage. Yemeni society is strongly male dominated, Yemen being ranked last of 135 countries in the 2012 Global Gender Gap Report. It was estimated that in 1997 about 400 women and girls died in honor killings in Yemen. In 2013, a 15-year-old girl was killed by her father, who burned her to death, because she talked to her fiancé before the wedding.


Afghanistan

In 2012, Afghanistan recorded 240 cases of honor killings, but the total number is believed to be much higher. Of the reported honor killings, 21% were committed by the victims' husbands, 7% by their brothers, 4% by their fathers, and the rest by other relatives.

In May 2017, United Nations Assistance Mission in Afghanistan concluded that the vast majority of cases involving honor killings and murders of women, perpetrators were not punished. Of the 280 recorded cases in the January 2016-December 2017 time span, 50 cases ended in a conviction. UNAMA concluded that the vast majority offences could be committed with impunity.


India

Honour killings have been reported in northern regions of India, mainly in the Indian states of Punjab, Rajasthan, Haryana, Uttar Pradesh, and the southern state of Tamil Nadu. The main reason for these crimes is a result of people marrying without their family's acceptance, especially when it is between members of two different castes or religious groups, or, more particular to northwestern India, between members of the same gotra, or exogamous clan. In contrast, honour killings are less prevalent but are not completely non-existent in the western Indian states of Maharashtra and Gujarat. Honour killings are reflected in nationwide data from the National Crime Records Bureau. That data showed 251 honour killings in 2015, though activists considered that a significant undercount. The same records bureau reported only 24 honour killings in 2019. According to a survey by AIDWA, over 30 percent of honour killings in the country take place in Western Uttar Pradesh.

The Indian state of Punjab also has a large number of honour killings. According to data compiled by the Punjab Police, 34 honour killings were reported in the state between 2008 and 2010: 10 in 2008, 20 in 2009, and four in 2010. Bhagalpur in the eastern Indian state of Bihar has also been notorious for honour killings. Jagir Kaur a prominent Sikh leader and six others were charged with causing the miscarriage and death of Kaur's daughter in 2000. Kaur was sentenced to 5 years for conspiracy but was acquitted on appeal in 2018 and the case awaits hearing at the Supreme Court. Recent cases include a 16-year-old girl, Imrana, from Bhojpur who was set on fire inside her house in a case of what the police called 'moral vigilantism'. The victim had screamed for help for about 20 minutes before neighbors arrived, only to find her smoldering body. She was admitted to a local hospital, where she later died from her injuries. In May 2008, Jayvirsingh Bhadodiya shot his daughter Vandana Bhadodiya and struck her on the head with an axe.


Nepal​

Honor killings have been reported in Nepal, with much of them linked with the caste system that is deeply rooted in Nepalese tradition. Most honor killings are reportedly undetected. Gender-based violence has been the deadliest form of violence in Nepal as of 2017, which includes honor killings and have been rising in the country as of 2012.


Pakistan​

In Pakistan honor killings are known locally as karo-kari. An Amnesty International report noted "the failure of the authorities to prevent these killings by investigating and punishing the perpetrators." Official data put the number of women killed in honor killings in 2015 at nearly 1,100. Recent cases include that of three teenage girls who were buried alive after refusing arranged marriages. Statistically, honor killings have a high level of support in Pakistan's rural society, despite widespread condemnation from human rights groups. In 2002 alone over 382 people, about 245 women and 137 men, became victims of honor killings in the Sindh province of Pakistan. Over the course of six years, more than 4,000 women have died as victims of honor killings in Pakistan from 1999 to 2004. In 2005 the average annual number of honor killings for the whole nation was stated to be more than 1,000 per year.

A 2009 study by Muazzam Nasrullah et al. reported a total of 1,957 honor crime victims reported in Pakistan's newspapers from 2004 to 2007. Of those killed, 18% were below the age of 18 years, and 88% were married. Husbands, brothers, and close relatives were direct perpetrators of 79% of the honor crimes reported by mainstream media. The method used for honor crime included firearms (most common), stabbing, axe, and strangulation.
 

RareHunter

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Basically women get married, and sit and be quiet while their husbands cheat with the non-marriageable women. That’s how it was back in the day. We know because some of us heard our moms, aunts and grandmas fussing or saw the woman no one knew show up to the funeral. LOL
No one said that. Cheaters should be exiled.
 

RareHunter

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We spoke of women because arranged marriages are being advocated itt based on the need to control women's choices. Arranged marriage is almost exclusively practiced in the very societies where violence against women is not only underreported, it is condoned.l

For the record, some arranged marriages work. I just don't think it should be mandated in any way.
What’s your suggestion? Everyone fk and suck their way into a fake little degree and by 30-35, the men and that range don’t even want those women? Be a bachelor? Marry single mothers? What’s your suggestion? Or are you just good in your neck of the woods, so it’s whatever? What’s the solution?
 

CarmelBarbie

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Someone up thread mentioned essentially high level match-making, which is an amazing idea. 🤷🏾‍♀️
Reminds me of Fiddler on the roof. Just saw the musical play recently with my son and fam and it was about old traditions for Jews. One of them was arranged marriage which took place with matchmaking—it was the neighborhood old lady who would set up potential matches by putting feeler out there to the parents of the daughter and the man. if the man was interested then he would talk to the father to ask for permission, if the father said yes, marriage happened.
It was more so a matter of finances. They wanted to marry their daughters off to men in good financial positions, especially if the family was poor. The bad part was typically the men chosen were unattractive, much older then the girl, and no one cared how the woman felt about it.

Anyway in the play, all three of his five oldest daughters said “fukk this”. I don’t want to marry the man they want me to, he’s ugly, fat, or isn’t compatible with me. And they all rebelled against the tradition, begging their father to let them marry the men they loved. And the father gave in for two of his daughters, but the third one he disowned because she married a nonjew. the father was in an arranged marriage himself and he and his wife got along but weren’t really in love.
But these discussions get silly for me because the most people are going to do is sit at their keyboard and have these circular discussions about this solution. Then they log off and step back into their reality.

Because this isn’t a community solution that is going to get executed by anyone on here. There is no one size fits all simple solution that can be realistically carried out across the entire community to address the enormity of issues that need to be worked out. It’s going to take a lot of different solutions to address the complexity of our issues and even then it would a be while before you see the fruits. At this point the only realistic solution that anyone here can implement and control is doing what works for themselves and their families…
 
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RareHunter

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They absolutely do not have higher rates of spousal abuse in Western countries, in a lot of those arraigned marriage countries the husband is allowed to beat the wife every fukking day and can beat her within an inch of her life without catching charges.

There's lower rates of divorce in those countries because any woman who gets a divorce will be completely ostracized from society and find it impossible to function. She's literally imprisoned in the marriage, that doesn't somehow become a good thing. Same with extramarital sex - it's hard for sex outside of marriage to exist if 90% of women outside of prostitutes are basically kept imprisoned in their home until marriage.

If you really want to enslave half the population and take away their free will, then yes, your stats will look good. But that's a pretty bullshyt way to get there.
You haven’t even mentioned solutions. I guess the white/Roman way of debauchery is good enough huh?
 

RareHunter

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So you’re encouraging the rape of our women:camby:you’re a goddamn demon. If you, your family or anyone in your dusty ass culture still believes in archaic shyt like arranged marriages, you aren’t worthy of respect.Water seeks its own level. If youre a subpar man in every way you deserve a subpar woman and y’all will find each other. Better yourself as a man and you will get quality women, without having to steal their autonomy as human beings.
80+ % of our ppl aren’t married and have kids out of wedlock. What’s respectful about that?
 

RareHunter

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So marriage doesn’t benefit men, yet its men who are advocating for forced arranged marriages? lol. Obviously y’all see benefits for men. A lot of men on here seem to love the idea of having a good traditional woman who would support him and the home and the kids. So of course these marriages would have benefit to men, especially those struggling with woman. It’s a guaranteed wife and p*ssy lol.

Anyway, I think arranged marriage is fine if that’s what that particular family wants to do. There is nothing stopping black fathers from making this a requirement for their daughters and sons. Just let the kids know when they’re young and keep reinforcing it so that by the time they’re older they already know that it’s how marriage is done for the family.

But this is obviously not realistic for the overall/entire black community. There are too many black fathers not in the homes to support this—so who would arrange the marriages for all the single parent homes? Our marriage rate is also 30%, so how are fathers who are not even married themselves, and obviously don’t value marriage, going to arrange marriages for their children?

You also have to consider that not everyone wants to get married. Some don’t even want children or families. Y’all can’t force them to marry lol.

Considering that women initiate most divorces already and that’s to the men they actually chose to marry, how long we given these marriages before the woman runs to court and files because she’s miserable with him?

I think if y’all want to make this a priority for your own kids that’s cool—and y’all can do it. But as far as wanting others to do it, for all the reasons I listed above and more, its not realistic and won’t ever happen.
The solution is when white gov collapses and our women can’t run to them, order will be restored, of course at that point their would only be a remnant left. Repent and turn to The Most High your Elohim.




 

RareHunter

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And yet another made up stat to go along with your "jails only existed after slavery" bullshyt.
It’s true. And the 20-30% married probably includes interracial and “exoticals”. And I proved my point with the prisons, u thought u had one.
 

Cobalt Sire

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Women are impatient. They need you to already be fully established. It has become exceedingly hard for college aged men to have their own place, a car, and money to spend. A guy in college working part time is considered a loser in their eyes. When that guy becomes established, most of the women his age are single moms and are finished. He's going to date someone younger or someone from another race.
 

Professor Emeritus

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Women are impatient. They need you to already be fully established. It has become exceedingly hard for college aged men to have their own place, a car, and money to spend. A guy in college working part time is considered a loser in their eyes. When that guy becomes established, most of the women his age are single moms and are finished. He's going to date someone younger or someone from another race.

This post is weird as hell when there's all sorts of threads telling 30+ year old women who focused on their own career or education first that they're too old and done.

So women are too impatient because they want a guy to be established before they commit....but if the woman is patient and establishes herself before she commits, then she's too old and considered spoiled product?
 

Professor Emeritus

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You haven’t even mentioned solutions. I guess the white/Roman way of debauchery is good enough huh?

Cause I was staying on topic. OP wasn't bringing up a "solution" to anything, there's no world in which children just suddenly go along with arranged marriages in a culture where all their peers are getting to make their own decisions on that shyt.

If you can't pick a woman who wants to stay faithful with you and build, that's honestly on you. There are still such women out there but 99% of the threads on women around here ain't looking for that shyt, they keep focusing on attributes that don't have jack shyt to do with raising a family together.

If you want families to be more likely to stay together, then we need to work on improving the financial situation of Black men. Get folk back into the Black church, and churches that actually build and maintain community rather than the megachurches and telegrifters. Keep black men out of the justice system, which is a combination of education reform, justice reform, and economically diversifying communities so the worst-off and most dysfunctional aren't all stuck together with no peers in a better situation. And work really fukking hard on mentorship, which means every man whose worth a fukk getting involved in relationships with young men and helping build them up. Same thing for the women too, of course.

It's no easy solution, and it doesn't fit in with your apocalyptic fascist fantasies, but unlike your hopes it actually has a chance of working.
 
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