Revisionist History Thread

[Wacky D]

Nas had 94 biggie had 95 pac 96 cube ran 90-91. Wayne 07-11 drake running sht now there are no ties in rap

no one person ever ran rap.

and judging by the logic youre using, where you place too much emphasis on record sales with no context, you clearly weren't around in the '90s.

nas sold nothing in '94.
pac & big were never the top sellers when they were actually alive.

mainstream rap was a joke by '07. you can have that argument with someone else.

but yea, I do agree, that DMX was bigger than jay in '98-99.
'98 was moreso DMX & master p, who has been written out of the history books it seems.
jay had a shakey '98 up until the last few months.
​

I do get it. Most artists receive a legacy boost.

like who??

 

[It's_Nade]

I’m trying to remember how people felt about Fifs Massacre album

 

[JustCKing]

no one person ever ran rap.

and judging by the logic youre using, where you place too much emphasis on record sales with no context, you clearly weren't around in the '90s.

nas sold nothing in '94.
pac & big were never the top sellers when they were actually alive.

mainstream rap was a joke by '07. you can have that argument with someone else.

but yea, I do agree, that DMX was bigger than jay in '98-99.
'98 was moreso DMX & master p, who has been written out of the history books it seems.
jay had a shakey '98 up until the last few months.
​

like who??

Most of the artists who end up on Top 10 lists or GOAT lists.

 

[Wacky D]

Most of the artists who end up on Top 10 lists or GOAT lists.

name em.

I’m trying to remember how people felt about Fifs Massacre album

weedplate rap.

 

[JustCKing]

name em.





weedplate rap.

To us who grew up in the 90's, Nas, Jay Z, Biggie, and Pac were GOATs. As time passed, they all received legacy boosts. With Pac and Big, it wasn't just dying that elevated their legacies. They put out double albums during their respective peaks (Biggie's coincided with his death as it dropped around the time he was killed). They had these huge hits and crazy runs near the end of their lives. They rapped about being killed and death was a common theme in their music. When they did get killed, they became these mythical beings and while they were celebrated in life, they became de facto GOATs years after they died.

With Nas and Jay, they were celebrated as greats, but became de facto GOATs in the '00's due to the beef and the music that came from that.

By the '00's, the Rakims, KRS-Ones, Slick Ricks, Kool G. Raps, and Big Daddy Kanes were pushed to the back in favor of the 90's greats. Even LL was pushed back.

 

[Wacky D]

To us who grew up in the 90's, Nas, Jay Z, Biggie, and Pac were GOATs. As time passed, they all received legacy boosts. With Pac and Big, it wasn't just dying that elevated their legacies. They put out double albums during their respective peaks (Biggie's coincided with his death as it dropped around the time he was killed). They had these huge hits and crazy runs near the end of their lives. They rapped about being killed and death was a common theme in their music. When they did get killed, they became these mythical beings and while they were celebrated in life, they became de facto GOATs years after they died.

With Nas and Jay, they were celebrated as greats, but became de facto GOATs in the '00's due to the beef and the music that came from that.

By the '00's, the Rakims, KRS-Ones, Slick Ricks, Kool G. Raps, and Big Daddy Kanes were pushed to the back in favor of the 90's greats. Even LL was pushed back.

every rapper you named, was held in the highest of esteem amongst their peers when they were doing it.

cant say the same for the groups I called out.

 

[Sinister]

no one person ever ran rap.

and judging by the logic youre using, where you place too much emphasis on record sales with no context, you clearly weren't around in the '90s.

nas sold nothing in '94.
pac & big were never the top sellers when they were actually alive.

mainstream rap was a joke by '07. you can have that argument with someone else.

but yea, I do agree, that DMX was bigger than jay in '98-99.
'98 was moreso DMX & master p, who has been written out of the history books it seems.
jay had a shakey '98 up until the last few months.
​

like who??

Nobody sold more than Pac in 96.
Nobody sold more than Big in 95.

 

[DOGGFATHER96]

I think it was split down the middle, moreso even than It Was Written. Remember the WTF convos after hearing he had a song with Puff. I think the only reason it doesn't get bashed more, is because the bootleg catered to the other fans.

For me, it's prob my least played Nas album. Didn't like most of it then, still don't like most of it.


Mah, Real Compton City G'z was a favorite of everyone. That ish was in heavy rotation on BET & The Box. Now, if you want to talk about the album, yeah...no one played it.

The album did sell 3x platinum while he was alive

 

[JustCKing]

every rapper you named, was held in the highest of esteem amongst their peers when they were doing it.

cant say the same for the groups I called out.

So you're saying with a straight face that people were comfortable putting Biggie, Pac, Jay, and Nas over Rakim, KRS-One, Big Daddy Kane, etc. when Biggie, Nas, Pac and Jay were still relatively new on the scene. They weren't proven and nobody knew if they would be mainstays. The artists that they are now placed ahead of were albums deep when Biggie, Pac, Jay, and Nas debuted.

Furthermore, I can say that Kast and UGK's peers hold them in the highest esteem... Now. It's based off the work they did then in the 90's and early 2000's.

 

[JustCKing]

Nobody sold more than Pac in 96.
Nobody sold more than Big in 95.

They did, but they were groups. The Fugees outsold Pac in 1996 and Biggie was outsold by Bone and maybe even Pac in 1995.

The notion that Biggie and Pac weren't top sellers is a myth though. Because while they weren't #1, they were still top sellers.

 

[Wacky D]

So you're saying with a straight face that people were comfortable putting Biggie, Pac, Jay, and Nas over Rakim, KRS-One, Big Daddy Kane, etc. when Biggie, Nas, Pac and Jay were still relatively new on the scene. They weren't proven and nobody knew if they would be mainstays. The artists that they are now placed ahead of were albums deep when Biggie, Pac, Jay, and Nas debuted.

Furthermore, I can say that Kast and UGK's peers hold them in the highest esteem... Now. It's based off the work they did then in the 90's and early 2000's.

im saying that they put the work in and had the huge runs IN REAL-TIME as opposed to their status randomly being elevated years after the fact.

outkast was a 2nd-tier group amongst the groups of their era.
UGK was regional.
going from that to being placed on all-time top 10 lists in retrospect, is the epitome of revisionist.

 

[JustCKing]

im saying that they put the work in and had the huge runs IN REAL-TIME as opposed to their status randomly being elevated years after the fact.

outkast was a 2nd-tier group amongst the groups of their era.
UGK was regional.
please stop.

Biggie and Pac had huge runs during their era, but they still weren't ELEVATED above the likes of Ra, KRS, LL etc. until later because of time.

Nas and Jay were not GOATs out of the gate. They both had debuts that were largely slept on and they were in the shadows of Biggie and Pac. In real time, their debuts didn't even get the reverence and respect until years later. They definitely had legacy boosts. And they were definitely second tier to Pac and Biggie in real time.

See my Nas and Jay example in regard to Kast.

UGK was regional, but moved beyond regional after "Big Pimpin".

A Top anything list is never revisionist. It changes with time. None of them are set in stone. A Top 10 from 1994 would look different from a Top 10 from 1996. A top 10 from 1996 woukd look different from a Top 10 from 2001. A Top 10 from 2001 looks different from a Top 10 from 2005. People actually had DMX and Big Pun in their Top 10 lists in the late 90's. How many of those lists had them there by 2003?

 

[Sinister]

Biggie and Pac had huge runs during their era, but they still weren't ELEVATED above the likes of Ra, KRS, LL etc. until later because of time.

Nas and Jay were not GOATs out of the gate. They both had debuts that were largely slept on and they were in the shadows of Biggie and Pac. In real time, their debuts didn't even get the reverence and respect until years later. They definitely had legacy boosts. And they were definitely second tier to Pac and Biggie in real time.

See my Nas and Jay example in regard to Kast.

UGK was regional, but moved beyond regional after "Big Pimpin".

Can't compare Jay to Nas there.

Illmatic didn't sell well because of heavy bootlegging and them rushing an unfinished album to combat it.

Reasonable Doubt on the other hand...wasn't

Nas was multi while Jay was struggling to go gold.

Also Nas got 5 mics out the gate...Biggie didn't.

Nas also had quotable in the source.

Before IWW Nas was looked at as the second cominf of Rakim. Illmatic was looked at as the beginning of artists having an ensemble of the best producers coming together for one album.

Nas, Biggie and Wu were the biggest names from out there.

If this thread was made in 1996 it's arguable that Nas was bigger than Big and undeniable Nas was bigger than Jay.

Jay wasn't as big as even Mic Geronimo when he appeared on his album.

 

[JustCKing]

Can't compare Jay to Nas there.

Illmatic didn't sell well because of heavy bootlegging and them rushing an unfinished album to combat it.

Reasonable Doubt on the other hand...wasn't

Nas was multi while Jay was struggling to go gold.

Also Nas got 5 mics out the gate...Biggie didn't.

Nas also had quotable in the source.

Before IWW Nas was looked at as the second cominf of Rakim. Illmatic was looked at as the beginning of artists having an ensemble of the best producers coming together for one album.

Nas, Biggie and Wu were the biggest names from out there.

If this thread was made in 1996 it's arguable that Nas was bigger than Big and undeniable Nas was bigger than Jay.

Jay wasn't as big as even Mic Geronimo when he appeared on his album.

Jay's debut was initially an independent release on Priority before it got re-released in 1998.

Regardless of why Illmatic or Reasonable Doubt didn't sell well, neither was revered or respected to the magnitude that they are now vs when they actually dropped. Illmatic is considered "the Bible of Hip Hop" that has documentaries about it.

Biggie won lyricist of the year over Nas from the same magazine that awarded Nas 5 mics. Biggie was labeled "King of NY" by the same magazine that gave Nas 5 mics.

And in 1994, there were several artists bigger than Nas. Snoop was bigger than Nas and Biggie in 1994.

 

[Sinister]

Jay's debut was initially an independent release on Priority before it got re-released in 1998.

Regardless of why Illmatic or Reasonable Doubt didn't sell well, neither was revered or respected to the magnitude that they are now vs when they actually dropped. Illmatic is considered "the Bible of Hip Hop" that has documentaries about it.

Biggie won lyricist of the year over Nas from the same magazine that awarded Nas 5 mics. Biggie was labeled "King of NY" by the same magazine that gave Nas 5 mics.

And in 1994, there were several artists bigger than Nas. Snoop was bigger than Nas and Biggie in 1994.

Snoop was bigger than Pac back then too. The fact that this was even brought up became a point of controversy just recently.

Snoop had a soundscan record that wasn't topped stopped until Eminem came along.

Snoop/Death Row were selling ridiculous units.

Doggystyle's first week was easily more than double Ready 2 die, Reasonable doubt, and Illmatic's combined.

Biggie was the first major new New York rapper that was extremely successful post Death Row. Then Nas. Then after Pac died....NY was running the game.