Remember what JJ Redikk said about Plumbers and Firemen?

[mastermind]

IMO the 90's and 00's obsession with slow motion was a disservice to the players of the 60's and 70's.

Exactly

The 90s and aughts was a different game to any modern other era because coaching became too hands on and the talent pool wasn’t as deep.

 

[dantheman9758]

What’s eye opening to me is the amount of players from the modern era who seem to be oblivious to the obvious rule changes throughout the decades.

I've noticed that too. I've gotten this impression from hearing a lot of modern players talk about the history like they really just.... don't know it. I watched the Bill Russell doc on Netflix and they had Steph and Chris Paul in there just to sort of put some fresh faces into the mix. They didn't have anything of value to really add and looked as if they really didn't know much about Russell. It's too long ago for them to know, to be fair, I get it. But really I wonder if the modern players are just too busy to be able to actually try and understand the game from a history perspective. If that's true I get it, but then, why try and talk about it let alone what Gil and Reddikk did which was try and talk down on it

 

[threattonature]

I've noticed that too. I've gotten this impression from hearing a lot of modern players talk about the history like they really just.... don't know it. I watched the Bill Russell doc on Netflix and they had Steph and Chris Paul in there just to sort of put some fresh faces into the mix. They didn't have anything of value to really add and looked as if they really didn't know much about Russell. It's too long ago for them to know, to be fair, I get it. But really I wonder if the modern players are just too busy to be able to actually try and understand the game from a history perspective. If that's true I get it, but then, why try and talk about it let alone what Gil and Reddikk did which was try and talk down on it

I look at it as having too many options to invest time in to. I can only imagine being a kid coming up in the internet age and having so much music, tv, movies at the tip of my finger. I can go down absolutely any rabbit hole that caught my eye. I could see how they may not know as much of the history. I was a nerd and read every basketball biography in the library or any basketball book I could get my hands on but I don't know if I would've been that way having internet. Plus the kids today spend so much time playing basketball it probably doesn't leave much time to learn the history of it.

 

[Dave24]

If you got the time this is a must watch

Subbed to watch later

 

[mastermind]

Agreed on all but the Eurostep. That's been around for a while. Here's a video showing Sarunus Marciullonis doing it early 80s. When done right definitely not a travel.

@dantheman9758 has a video showing the evolution of the move. It goes back to Elgin Baylor:

 

[dantheman9758]

I look at it as having too many options to invest time in to. I can only imagine being a kid coming up in the internet age and having so much music, tv, movies at the tip of my finger. I can go down absolutely any rabbit hole that caught my eye. I could see how they may not know as much of the history. I was a nerd and read every basketball biography in the library or any basketball book I could get my hands on but I don't know if I would've been that way having internet. Plus the kids today spend so much time playing basketball it probably doesn't leave much time to learn the history of it.

100% that's probably it. Steph and Chris get a pass on that since they at least had nothing bad to say. JJ and Gil went rogue

 

[dantheman9758]

@dantheman9758 has a video showing the evolution of the move. It goes back to Elgin Baylor:

I also have tape of Oscar and Sam Jones and Dave Bing doing it too. Less exaggerated than today but still the same concept. None of these made the cut for the recent video because I was trying to keep mostly high quality clips in the vid

 

[mastermind]

The one thing I will say. JJ Reddikk said that, but it was in the context of Mad Dog trolling and shytting on the current generation of players. People forget that or don't hear that because its easier to be insensed by a comment, but Mad Dog was equally bad.

 

[dantheman9758]

The one thing I will say. JJ Reddikk said that, but it was in the context of Mad Dog trolling and shytting on the current generation of players. People forget that or don't hear that because its easier to be insensed by a comment, but Mad Dog was equally bad.

This is true mastermind and thanks for pointing that out. Mad dog goes too far with a lot of his takes and I get that JJ tries to check him and a few times JJ has done a great job with it. JJ is actually not as dumb as this comment from my vid might have implied he's just not informed on this one. I did understand that context was involved here but this is one of the things I've learned in my own lifetime about disagreements with people. If someone's wrong about something and it gets you going, you can't one up it by doing or saying something equally wrong or you also lose. Two wrongs don't make a right as they say. JJ could have just said "I don't know much about that era so don't form my rankings that far back". Many players and journalists have said that before and it's like ok, fair enough, your opinion is still valid and nobody can get mad about it. JJ started throwing darts though, and not at Mad Dog... he threw em at Cousy. Idk, gotta learn how to argue the right way if you're gonna be debating on tv that's the way I looked at it. He was trying to check Mad Dog for his old fashion views though which Mad Dog has a lot of

 

[mastermind]

This is true mastermind and thanks for pointing that out. Mad dog goes too far with a lot of his takes and I get that JJ tries to check him and a few times JJ has done a great job with it. JJ is actually not as dumb as this comment from my vid might have implied he's just not informed on this one. I did understand that context was involved here but this is one of the things I've learned in my own lifetime about disagreements with people. If someone's wrong about something and it gets you going, you can't one up it by doing or saying something equally wrong or you also lose. Two wrongs don't make a right as they say. JJ could have just said "I don't know much about that era so don't form my rankings that far back". Many players and journalists have said that before and it's like ok, fair enough, your opinion is still valid and nobody can get mad about it. JJ started throwing darts though, and not at Mad Dog... he threw em at Cousy. Idk, gotta learn how to argue the right way if you're gonna be debating on tv that's the way I looked at it. He was trying to check Mad Dog for his old fashion views though which Mad Dog has a lot of

I agree with you completel.

 

[Shadow King]

Giannis isn't and never has been as skilled as Wilt Chamberlain, so I don't accept the comparison.

Wilt wouldn't magically turn into an above-average three-point shooter; if you bring him into this era and he understands that he needs to work on that part of his game, though, I think he could do it. Or more accurately, if you get him when he starts playing ball and develop him into a pro in this era, he could do it. Athletes at the very top of the chain can do anything they're asked to focus on. I'm sure if Wilt really focused on FTs, he could shoot them at a 70% clip or whatever. I'm sure the counter-point there is Shaq, but I don't want to hear anything about Giannis. "Perimeter-oriented" doesn't mean shyt when you have average footwork and no consistent go-to moves out on the perimeter.

The time that it takes to work on a skill like 3 point shooting, would elapse by the time this time drop career is done. So if you think Wilt would turn into a 38% 3PT shooter, or 70% FT shooter, in an official NBA season, you are in fact essentially saying he'd "magically" turn into one.

Now if you want to say "if he was born 50 years later", that's a different story.

 

[tru_m.a.c]

I look at it as having too many options to invest time in to. I can only imagine being a kid coming up in the internet age and having so much music, tv, movies at the tip of my finger. I can go down absolutely any rabbit hole that caught my eye. I could see how they may not know as much of the history. I was a nerd and read every basketball biography in the library or any basketball book I could get my hands on but I don't know if I would've been that way having internet. Plus the kids today spend so much time playing basketball it probably doesn't leave much time to learn the history of it.

What basketball books would you recommend???

 

[Professor Emeritus]

Fact 2: Wilt and Russell playing with short guys is in fact a myth. Here's a list of players in Wilt's era he played against 6'10 and up

Kareem Abdul Jabbar: 7'2"
Dennis Awtrey: 6'11"
Walt Bellamy: 6'11"
Tom Boerwinkle: 7'0"
Nate Bowmen: 6'11"
Mel Counts: 7'0"
Walter Dukes: 7'0"
Jim Eakins: 6'11"
Ray Felix: 6'11"
Hank Finkel: 7'0"
Artis Gilmore: 7'2"
Swede Halbrook: 7'3"
Reggie Harding: 7'0"
Bob Lanier: 6'11"
Jim McDaniels: 6'11"
Otto Moore: 6'11"
Dave Newmark: 7'0"
Rich Niemann: 7'0"
Billy Paultz: 6'11"
Craig Raymond: 6'11"
Elmore Smith: 7'0"
Chuck Share: 6'11"
Ronald Taylor: 7'1"
Nate Thurmond: 6'11"
Walt Wesley: 6'11"

List is nonsense because those players are spread out over a 14-year career. Most of them are from the late 60s and early 70s when Wilt suddenly became an 18ppg scorer, not the early 60s when he was putting up 50ppg. And many of them only lasted a couple years in the league - there are stiffs on that list who were good at literally nothing but were only in the league because they were tall and white.



This is Joe Ruklick on how he made the Philly roster:

"I was 23 years old and having fun, but sitting the bench wasn't fun," he said. "He said, 'We need you next year. Fans won't buy tickets if you have too many Negroes.' I went and told my wife. She said, 'You mean you're on this team because you're white?' 'Well, yeah.' So I went to New York to look for a job (outside of basketball)."

 

[Greenhornet]

its always dumb being born in the mid era

where you played ball during that time and still now

everything is different, its not some conspiracy or made up event

even shooting 3s etc ... its nowhere near the same game offensively or defensively

the whole era being behind shyt is dumb too, like I said before. I have played in an older era and the modern era.... if I'm beating you today off rip... doesnt that prove your "conditioning" and all types of frugal bullshyt dont matter? ive been beat by players 15-20 years older than me and 10 years younger... a good player is just a good player at any level or time.


thats like saying you can drop heavyweight champions off in the 60s and they should just handily whoop everyone

 

[Professor Emeritus]

Let's look at the "myth" that Wilt and Russell played against short guys.

That is the dominant Celtics team we here so much about. The only player over 6'7" is Russell. Notice there are only four Black players on the team - for a portion of Russell's career there was an unspoken quota on how many Black players could be on a team.



When Wilt entered the NBA in 1960, there were only 3 other Black men over 6'8" in the entire league.