Remember what JJ Redikk said about Plumbers and Firemen?

[threattonature]

First things first, JJ Reddik is a fakkit. He was a nobody in his own era. Secondly, I got up to the part where Embiid is saying he'd dominate in the 70s. I'm sure he would dominate some players but let me ask this... Embiid is a guy who has routinely struggled in big spots against Al Horford. He's going to dominate Wilt and Russell? Who are better defensively than Al and who are more athletic than Al?

It's an apples to oranges comparison. Celtics are allowed to have players cheat towards Embiid if he tries to get deep post position to deny an entry pass. Something not allowed in the 60s and 70s. That alone would make a huge difference. That leaves Embiid catching the ball much deeper away from the paint. And even when he catches the ball away from the paint the Celtics often have guys positioned to cut off any potential driving angle without fully committing to guarding him which makes Horford's job much easier.

By the way, Joel Embiid wouldn't be anywhere close to best player in the world in the '60s. He would be a shorter, weaker, fragile, injury-prone, whiny, less durable, bootlegged version of Warriors/Sixers era Wilt with better free throw shooting.

His shytty rebounding and shot-blocking would not be very valuable in an era where defense and playmaking was most valued, and I highly doubt he would be able to play the condensed schedule of the '60s with less rest time in between games and more back-to-back-to-backs than any other time in league history, given his inability to play 70 games in a season or get through a postseason without physically breaking down. So he should shut his mouth about that era.

Gilbert Arenas is a fukking clown as well -- and Green, Reddikk, JR Smith and the others aren't worthy of a proper reply.

Another bad comp. In the older days centers were not having to run nearly as far per game. He was usually running paint to paint and that was it. Now with all the switching, chasing three shooters at the three point line, and the 4 and 5 out offensives centered around the pick and roll big men are asked to do way more in general. I think back then Joell would've actually faired better as his game would involve a lot less driving, cutting and Euro steps the way it does now. I really think he'd be more like a Patrick Ewing who was banged up a lot but played damn near every game.

 

[DPresidential]

Fascinating.
Great thread and great share.

I think we underestimate players prior to the 80s because of the mechanics in which they played. Their game does not look flashy AT ALL to the trained eye.

Because of that, many casual eyes look at it like it was easy to maneuver with the ball. It wasn't.

Whats funny is, the closest elite player that would seem like they could not keep up with current modern play if you only saw him in black and white during the 50s is Jalen Brunson.

Brunson plays - to quote Breen - the right way. It's not flashy. It's just mechanically sound. His movement and decision making is more chess and less smoke and mirrors.

Look at his highlights...

Even in that first highlight, where a Jalen Green would opt for the cross between the legs to make it look flashier, Brunson opts for the old fashion cross over, which is mechanically sound and relied on his elite ability to just stop his forward motion and cross back to an advantagous positik for the 3 away from Caruso.


If those highlights were in old film with the old uniforms, people would think Brunson would get Washed by the current highly athletic players of today's league.

My two cents.


Edit: Also, Rick Barry's thoughts on it PERFECTLY sums up the right perspective.

 

[Glorious]

Plumbers and Firefighters. That has to be the dumbest shyt I ever heard. They are the reason why a one dimensional scrub can retire a rich man. What's funny is that these mad handles that young people talk about is basically palming that is no longer called like it used to be called. Same with traveling. Euro step my ass. That's a travel nikka. You didn't learn no basketball in Europe. You know dudes in the playgrounds didn't accept that shyt. They call travel and proceed to get their check ball.

 

[vino]

Some of those passes Broussard was talking about would turn in to steals today. That’s why thpse passes are not made today. Look at the amount movement/time takes to make that pass.

But, I won’t diminish the talent of the past. I feel they were very skilled players. Today’s players may be more athletic but not as skilled in areas

 

[DPresidential]

Plumbers and Firefighters. That has to be the dumbest shyt I ever heard. They are the reason why a one dimensional scrub can retire a rich man. What's funny is that these mad handles that young people talk about is basically palming that is no longer called like it used to be called. Same with traveling. Euro step my ass. That's a travel nikka. You didn't learn no basketball in Europe. You know dudes in the playgrounds didn't accept that shyt. They call travel and proceed to get their check ball.

THIS!!!!

 

[MikelArteta]

Plumbers and Firefighters. That has to be the dumbest shyt I ever heard. They are the reason why a one dimensional scrub can retire a rich man. What's funny is that these mad handles that young people talk about is basically palming that is no longer called like it used to be called. Same with traveling. Euro step my ass. That's a travel nikka. You didn't learn no basketball in Europe. You know dudes in the playgrounds didn't accept that shyt. They call travel and proceed to get their check ball.

Yup it always has ticked me off, salaries for many athletes weren't large so they had secondary jobs in the offseason . These guys paved the way.

 

[threattonature]

Plumbers and Firefighters. That has to be the dumbest shyt I ever heard. They are the reason why a one dimensional scrub can retire a rich man. What's funny is that these mad handles that young people talk about is basically palming that is no longer called like it used to be called. Same with traveling. Euro step my ass. That's a travel nikka. You didn't learn no basketball in Europe. You know dudes in the playgrounds didn't accept that shyt. They call travel and proceed to get their check ball.

Agreed on all but the Eurostep. That's been around for a while. Here's a video showing Sarunus Marciullonis doing it early 80s. When done right definitely not a travel.

 

[Juggalo Fred]

Jerry West: "What did JJ's career look like? What did he do that determined games?"




call a medic..

"People with less talent will always try to make a name for themselves by criticizing other people, and hopefully getting some attention and perhaps increasing their credibility. When you respond to something like this, you play into their hands. I won't do that, but I will defend the firemen and the plumbers that he referenced," Bob Cousy on JJ Redikk

 

[King Poetic]

Enjoy your current era u in and shut the fukk up about the past greats

U dropped these young nikkas back in the 50s and 60s where bill russell and other black players had to not only go through racism on the road, can’t eat or sleep at certain hotels with their teammates and get harassed by cops and kkk, they had to go through that shyt in they own city they played in and had to deal with death threats to them and they family…

U can say all they dominated against plumbers and handymen, but these same ass pawg chasers club hopin nikkas would be shook because of the pure hate and racism bill Russell had to go through

 

[MikelArteta]

Enjoy your current era u in and shut the fukk up about the past greats

U dropped these young nikkas back in the 50s and 60s where bill russell and other black players had to not only go through racism on the road, can’t eat or sleep at certain hotels with their teammates and get harassed by cops and kkk, they had to go through that shyt in they own city they played in and had to deal with death threats to them and they family…

U can say all they dominated against plumbers and handymen, but these same ass pawg chasers club hopin nikkas would be shook because of the pure hate and racism bill Russell had to go through

not to mention playing without AC, flying without chartered jets, not having private trainers because of your low salaries

Red Auerbach used to tell his storied Boston Celtics “Every man for himself” as he leapt onto the last seat of a departing train during a snowstorm. “It was much easier to play the games than to get there,” Celtics legend Bob Cousy said in a phone interview. “There were always problems.” Just getting there was half the battle. And sometimes the battle was lost.

By Air​

Gail Goodrich We traveled coach. You’d go to the airport, you meet up, you get tickets, you go on the plane, you wait.

» Back in the Day: Travel in the NBA

grantland.com

 

[Mʀ2ᴋDᴇᴇᴢ]

Watching rn

 

[dantheman9758]

Watching rn

Curious what players or plays stand out the most. I see this footage all the time in fact 75% of what I could have used got cut so this was just what I picked to keep it a watchable size that could fit the testimony. Was anything in there eye opening? Anyone can chime in, this is an open question I'm curious about feedback from everyone on this one.

 

[Maximus]

Another bad comp. In the older days centers were not having to run nearly as far per game. He was usually running paint to paint and that was it. Now with all the switching, chasing three shooters at the three point line, and the 4 and 5 out offensives centered around the pick and roll big men are asked to do way more in general. I think back then Joell would've actually faired better as his game would involve a lot less driving, cutting and Euro steps the way it does now. I really think he'd be more like a Patrick Ewing who was banged up a lot but played damn near every game.

I'm not sure I can agree with that. Russell and Wilt (especially Russell) were required to switch out to guards and perimeter-oriented bigs quite a bit. So, I doubt Embiid would be able to simply play in the paint in that era and get away with it.

Embiid scoring skillset would be elite in any era - he's literally a smaller version of prime Wilt. But his skillset wouldn't be anything that the players of that era hadn't seen from the likes of Wilt, Bellamy, Beatty, Reed, etc. So I doubt he would be the hyper-dominant player that is so great that players would have to shoot him to stop him like he claims he would be. And, given his lack of durability compared to other great bigs and his proneness to physically breaking down every year, I don't think he would fare better in an era where the schedule was more condensed than at any other time league history.

 

[Mʀ2ᴋDᴇᴇᴢ]

Curious what players or plays stand out the most. I see this footage all the time in fact 75% of what I could have used got cut so this was just what I picked to keep it a watchable size that could fit the testimony. Was anything in there eye opening? Anyone can chime in, this is an open question I'm curious about feedback from everyone on this one.

What’s eye opening to me is the amount of players from the modern era who seem to be oblivious to the obvious rule changes throughout the decades.

 

[mastermind]

Was it against the rules or some shyt

palming was called more stringently back then. A lot of ball handlers today would be turnover machines if you dropped them back then.

Your hand had to be parallel to the floor when you dribbled.