Rap’s Contribution to Violence Debate Thread

[JustCKing]

So now it's 14-17. What about 18-24? And why the fukk should homicide rates be higher in the 2000s for sub-25 y.o. black men when they're not for any other group and when black people have gained in education & economics?

You still haven't posited an answer to that question.

Is 14-17 not < 25?

18-24 is still slightly higher in the 2000's than it was in the 70's.


This chart has absolutely no correlation to rap music whatsoever. All this is telling us are trends in the homicide rates of Black people since 1975. If rap music was responsible, explain how the homicide rates declined after 1995. This was peak gangsta rap, Hip Hop sales becoming dominant, Pac and Biggie being killed etc.

 

[Reality]

Is 14-17 not < 25?

18-24 is still slightly higher in the 2000's than it was in the 70's.

Exactly. You have no answer except to hand wave the situation that "18-24 is still slightly higher than in the 70s" when that equates to tens of thousands of lives being lost. That's tens of thousands of young black men that would be in there 30s & 40s, hopefully helping the community, if the rate just even returned to normal 70s levels.

You are OK with this when only young black men see this trend. And you don't concern yourself with the question of why young black men are anomalies in this regard. I will keep hammering on this because it's important: a community shouldn't have better economic and educational outcomes yet move backwards on homicides.

That's what this all boils down to...apathy and head-in-the-sand-edness about the situation.

Of the things that black people can do to address our situation in this country, our listening habits and what we allow ourselves, our children, our cousins, etc. to listen to without shame is something we 100% can self-regulate. I've seen too many black men who were on the margin of being legitimate & investing in themselves in the long term do goofy shyt because of hip hop culture.

It's insane that we even need to have this discussion.

 

[JustCKing]

Exactly. You have no answer except to hand wave the situation that "18-24 is still slightly higher than in the 70s" when that equates to tens of thousands of lives being lost that shouldn't have if the rate just even returned to normal 70s levels (when blacks were poorer & less educated).

You are OK with this when only young black men see this trend. And you don't concern yourself with the question of why young black men are anomalies in this regard.

That's what this all boils down to...apathy and head-in-the-sand-edness about the situation.

Of the things that black people can do to address our situation in this country, our listening habits and what we allow ourselves, our children, our cousins, etc. to listen to without shame is something we 100% can self-regulate.

It's insane that we even need to have this discussion.

Breh, where did I ever say I was OK with this. I never said that. All I'm doing is discussing the facts and you're in here basically arguing semantics.

Breh, they returned back to normal rates after a gigantic spike. This was after a decade of steady declines.

Last, what does this chart have to do with Hip Hop? If it did, these charts actually contradict your claims.

 

[Reality]

Breh, where did I ever say I was OK with this. I never said that. All I'm doing is discussing the facts and you're in here basically arguing semantics.

Breh, they returned back to normal rates after a gigantic spike. This was after a decade of steady declines.

Last, what does this chart have to do with Hip Hop? If it did, these charts actually contradict your claims.

What do you mean "normal rates?" Again, in every other demographic homicide rates have declined or been flat over that period. Stop looking at it in isolation - Jesus Christ. I'm not expecting you to be a PHD level statistician but if you can't recognize the abnormality there, there's literally no point in continuing to discuss this with you.

In what way does this chart clear hip hop when homicide rates surge as hip hop grows in popularity, and are sticky at a higher level for young men as it becomes the dominant music in the culture?

You seem to think that homicides declining after a spike in the 90s somehow clears hip-hop.

 

[JustCKing]

This article speaks directly to the stats, but I'm wondering which one of ya'll wrote it, because TheColi is specifically mentioned in the artilce:

Shooting The Messenger — The Myth of Hip-hop’s Significant Influence on Violence

An art form indicted by uncorroborated gut feelings; exonerated by corroborating data.

medium.com

 

[JustCKing]

What do you mean "normal rates?" Again, in every other demographic homicide rates have declined or been flat over that period. Stop looking at it in isolation - Jesus Christ. I'm not expecting you to be a PHD level statistician but if you can't recognize the abnormality there, there's literally no point in continuing to discuss this with you.

In what way does this chart clear hip hop when homicide rates surge as hip hop grows in popularity, and are sticky at a higher level for young men as it becomes the dominant music in the culture?

You seem to think that homicides declining after a spike in the 90s somehow clears hip-hop.

Breh, what did you mean by "normal 70's rates". You introduced "normal" into the discussion. Not me.

What abnormality? The big abnormality here is the rise of the homicides in the early 90's at time when Arrested, Kriss Kross, MC Hammer, A Tribe Called Quest, Fresh Prince and a host of others were wildly popular.

 

[JustCKing]

There is currently a manhunt in McDonough, GA for man who shot an officer and killed another. He also has charges in Miami Dade for assault. The kicker is the news posted a video of him singing "I Want It That Way" by Backstreet Boys.

Only reason, I'm posting this is because if there was a correlation between the music and murder, why is this murderer singing Backstreet Boys. Shouldn't he be singing something with violent content?

 

[Bugzbunny129]

anyone using the “but but but white people dont join gangs and they listen!”

Is simple minded as fukk. This aint white peoples culture. To then its entertainment. To black people its reality sadly. And ive seen enough kida turned onto drugs and being a wannabe tough guy from rap its disgusting how theres zero people out there tryna stop it. Just a buncha nonsense tryna justify why its ok. Its not ok. None of this is ok. 500 rappers dying a year is NOT normal.

 

[kaldurahm]

Of course it contributes to the violence so long as artists/music is street adjacent. Nobody trying to run up or "try" an Early Sweatshirt. Not commenting on the Takeoff situation, I'm just saying in general.

This is why I barely listen to rap as a grown man, unless it's some poetic artists like a Blu, Lupe Fiasco, rap ferreira, them type of artists, not interested in listening to music that's leading to the demise of my brothers. I know too many men dead and in jail, and I'm not even 30 to be listening to some bullshyt.

Nowadays I'm listening to straight Jazz music and sometimes reggae

 

[JustCKing]

anyone using the “but but but white people dont join gangs and they listen!”

Is simple minded as fukk. This aint white peoples culture. To then its entertainment. To black people its reality sadly. And ive seen enough kida turned onto drugs and being a wannabe tough guy from rap its disgusting how theres zero people out there tryna stop it. Just a buncha nonsense tryna justify why its ok. Its not ok. None of this is ok. 500 rappers dying a year is NOT normal.

And even this is still wrong because it isn't the music that is contributing to the demise of our people. Really. I'm really having a hard time believing many of you even have children, nephews, nieces, younger cousins, or interact with youth enough to know that most of the savagery comes from social media not from music.

Ain't no 500 rappers died in a single year.

 

[get these nets]

There is currently a manhunt in McDonough, GA for man who shot an officer and killed another. He also has charges in Miami Dade for assault. The kicker is the news posted a video of him singing "I Want It That Way" by Backstreet Boys.

Only reason, I'm posting this is because if there was a correlation between the music and murder, why is this murderer singing Backstreet Boys. Shouldn't he be singing something with violent content?

Deflecting and being disingenuous.

 

[Bugzbunny129]

And even this is still wrong because it isn't the music that is contributing to the demise of our people. Really. I'm really having a hard time believing many of you even have children, nephews, nieces, younger cousins, or interact with youth enough to know that most of the savagery comes from social media not from music.

Ain't no 500 rappers died in a single year.

Im sorry, 2 years

250 - 2021

200 - 2020


This guy updates wvery few weeks. We at 195 for 2022 SO FAR

https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCg4lJeYh96FWe-Ri-rzdKxQ/videos

So 650 dead rappers in 3 years. Wanna split hairs over the amount go head. Most to gun violence over NOTHING. Make excuses for it. Its never been like this. Rappers today are just wannabes playing pretend yet dying for real no cgi


Yea im on social media. Everyfriday kids post their favorite get fukked up song and do exactly what the song says. Stop

 

[JustCKing]

Im sorry, 2 years

250 - 2021

200 - 2020




Yea im on social media. Everyfriday kids post their favorite get fukked up song and do exactly what the song says. Stop

1) A lot of these rappers didn't even die from violence. For starters, DMX, Black Rob, and Doom weren't murdered. So I don't really get your point.

2) Miss me with most of the rappers listed. These weren't known rappers.

3) How many of them were actually killed as a result of the songs they made?

 

[Drip Bayless]

9/10 these threads devolve into someone explaining how statistics work to people who don’t understand that anecdotal evidence can’t be used to back claims like this

 

[JustCKing]

Deflecting and being disingenuous.

How is this deflecting? This is directly related to the topic. If music is by all means a causation of death and violence, please explain to me how someone listening to and enjoying a non-violent song could be on the run from the law for shooting an officer, killing another man, and having assault charges in another state. I'm asking proponents of the whole "Rap contributes to violence" to explain that.