Question: Why is it always held against Kobe that he played with Shaq when Magic had Kareem?

[10bandz]

In what context tho? As him being one of their personal favorites, or in a actual historical perspective demonstrating the hierarchy of all time greats?

Cuz I’m sure more former players and people in general name Kobe on all time list before Duncan because of the Lakers lure and his mamba mentality, but Bean wasn’t quite on his level.

In the context of that he was literally one of the top 5 to ever play. From an actual historical perspective. Eventually you have to give up the "Only Kobestans think he's top 5" nonsense. You're brushing off player after player after player cosigning Kobe as "him being one of their personal favorites" when in reality, they played against him and know how good he was.

John Wooden was even reported to say Kobe was the best player he ever saw. No one cares that he shot 45% or that Shaq was his teammate except haters. Everyone else witnessed the individual skill and brilliance of Kobe, they witnessed teams double him like other perimeter player, they witnessed coaches rendered helpless when trying to stop him. It's not like coaches could throw Patrick Beverly, JJ Barea, or Jason Terry on Kobe to get him mentally flustered. They witnessed his longevity. It's not like he spent the 2nd half of his career averaging 14ppg like Tim Duncan did.

Kobe is exactly who ballers characterize him as. Y'all just hating or didn't watch him.

 

[Techniec]

I disagree with most of this list but ok that’s arguable but I’m confused about the bolded. How can u seriously all hate aside say they are better players than Kobe. Explain

I would take those three over Kobe no doubt. I'd be able to build a better team around them

 

[Techniec]

No.

Kareem avg more points than either magic or worthy

 

[Trece]

And LeBron had errrybody

 

[Ben.]

Kobe didn't play with the older Shaq. People would have seen he was clear cut better than Shaq as Shaq declines like how it was with Magic. Kareem started to decline from the mid to late 80s

Someone in here said Shaq won with Miami like he wasn't a 13ppg scorer in that run.

Kareem should have the '80 FMVP as someone said earlier as well.

Another thing with Magic career no one talks about is how weak the West was, the West for most of the 80s was trash.

 

[Mac071415]

Funny, cuz I’m pretty sure it’s a dikk you should be suckin right now you fukkin faggit gtfoh.

You mad??!?!!?

 

[NoHalfWay]

In the context of that he was literally one of the top 5 to ever play. From an actual historical perspective. Eventually you have to give up the "Only Kobestans think he's top 5" nonsense. You're brushing off player after player after player cosigning Kobe as "him being one of their personal favorites" when in reality, they played against him and know how good he was.

John Wooden was even reported to say Kobe was the best player he ever saw. No one cares that he shot 45% or that Shaq was his teammate except haters. Everyone else witnessed the individual skill and brilliance of Kobe, they witnessed teams double him like other perimeter player, they witnessed coaches rendered helpless when trying to stop him. It's not like coaches could throw Patrick Beverly, JJ Barea, or Jason Terry on Kobe to get him mentally flustered. They witnessed his longevity. It's not like he spent the 2nd half of his career averaging 14ppg like Tim Duncan did.

Kobe is exactly who ballers characterize him as. Y'all just hating or didn't watch him.

I don’t see how any of that proves Kobe is that high on the hierarchy. Bean was a generational talent with longevity to match but he did not dominate on a top 5 all-time level. His peak doesn’t even come near some of these players y’all scoff at

You got nikkas in here legitimately confused as to why people have Olajuwon ahead of Kobe.

The same dude that lead a team that booted out the dynastic Showtime Lakers in the WCF in his second year in the league. The dude that carried his squad to back to back titles, one of those years as a 6th seed, and still the only player in NBA history to win DPOY, MVP, and Finals MVP in a single season.

Kobe is an all time great but let’s not lose perspective

 

[Absolut da poet ®]

Magic & Kareem
Magic - 3 FMVPs
Kareem - 1 FMVP

Shaq & Kobe
Shaq - 3 FMVPs
Kobe - 0 FMVPs

This sums it up

But I understand.. If you didn't live in the era it's easy to lose perspective

Magic came out in his very first finals without
Kareem and started at center

Dropped 42pts 15reb 7ast

And won game 6 and a ring


If Kobe had done that in his first finals I'm sure the conversation with him would have changed early on

It is what it is

 

[Professor Emeritus]

Another thing that’s sick that Kobe had to do unlike Shaq,Tim,Bron, KD or even Curry.

Kobe was on a team that went to the finals.
The next year only 2 people return
3 years later he was in the finals

I like how Kobe went 7 years between championships, when we evaluating Kobe suddenly just making it there matters.

Duncan WON a Finals, and just 4 years later he WON another despite only returning 2 players from the 1999 team and both were .

LeBron WON a Finals, and just 3 years later he WON another for a completely different team that had been in the freaking lottery for four straight years before he came.

Someone show me a elite hooper go through a rebuild and won a ring

I could be wrong. I need another example

Duncan in 2003 breh.

These were the top players on the Spurs in that 2003 championship season:

Duncan
TP: (20yo from the bottom of the draft in his 2nd NBA season)
Ginobli: (rookie from the 2nd round who only averaged 7ppg that year)
Robinson: (37yo in his retirement season)
Stephen Jackson: (3rd-year player who had barely been on the court his first two seasons)

Spurs had to completely rebuild, mostly with young players that were grabbed with bad draft picks, and still managed to win a ring just 4 years after their previous one. Hell, the 2014 championship team was almost a rebuild too - other than TP and 36yo Ginobli that whole team was different than the 2007 championship squad.


Hell, LeGM built the entire Cavs team on the fly in 2015.

 

[10bandz]

This sums it up

But I understand.. If you didn't live in the era it's easy to lose perspective

Magic came out in his very first finals without
Kareem and started at center

Dropped 42pts 15reb 7ast

And won game 6 and a ring


If Kobe had done that in his first finals I'm sure the conversation with him would have changed early on

It is what it is

if you're from that era why are you acting like Kareem didn't even play in the 1980 finals? He averaged 33 and 13 with 4.6 blocks a game through 5 games.

Dumbass nikkas man

 

[Taadow]

Kareem avg more points than either magic or worthy

That doesn't mean he was the first option...

 

[Professor Emeritus]

Damn dawg u just came up wit a whole bunch of excuses that u would never give Kobe. Did u even read it?

How are those "excuses"? Those are the reasons that the Magic lost those years. If Shaq was better at that stage in his career he would have overcome them. What's the difference between an excuse and a reason to you?

People forget how lucky the Celtics were to get that ring in 08, Kobe didnt have much help. Bynum missed the whole series and Ariza i think missed a few games, came back and wasnt himself

They weren't any luckier than the Lakers were in 2009 (barely beating Houston even after both McGrady and Yao got hurt and the bullshyt Artest ejection, not having to face Boston after Garnett got hurt, not having to face Cleveland after Orlando took them out) or 2010 (Pau had to put back Kobe's missed layin at the buzzer to keep the Thunder series from going 7, then they would have got it handed to them by the Celtics if Perkins doesn't get hurt, Ray doesn't have to play injured, and the Lakers don't get mad free throws in the last two games).

Boston was the clear best team in the NBA for the entire season in 2008 and they won the deciding game by 39 points. You don't have a great case that Bynum (a 20yo who was just finding himself that season and had never done shyt in the playoffs) or Ariza (the 10th man who only missed 1 Finals game) would have been the difference makers.

Cleveland came closer than the Lakers did, LeBron only lost Game 7 by five points and that's with a sudden lucky-ass scoring spree by fukking P.J. Brown.

I'm gonna bookmark this though, you actually made an excuse for the Lakers cause their 10th-man missed one game.

Duncan was a very good player after 07 but he was no longer a top 5 player no matter how you try to spin it.

How else are you gonna explain that Kobe OWNED the Spurs? I'll wait.

You're right that Tim Duncan was only a top-5 player until he was 32. Why is that the imaginary cut-off, rather than top-4 or top-7?

And Kobe dominated in 2008 because Ginobli got hurt and the rest of the Spurs' swing players were useless 40 year olds.

 

[10bandz]

I don’t see how any of that proves Kobe is that high on the hierarchy. Bean was a generational talent with longevity to match but he did not dominate on a top 5 all-time level. His peak doesn’t even come near some of these players y’all scoff at

You got nikkas in here legitimately confused as to why people have Olajuwon ahead of Kobe.

The same dude that lead a team that booted out the dynastic Showtime Lakers in the WCF in his second year in the league. The dude that carried his squad to back to back titles, one of those years as a 6th seed, and still the only player in NBA history to win DPOY, MVP, and Finals MVP in a single season.

Kobe is an all time great but let’s not lose perspective

Hakeem is top 10 you dont need to tell me what Hakeem did

Kobe's peak on consisted of him scoring at a pace the modern NBA has never seen until Harden did it this season. Even before his peak was he was the top scorer in the league by 2001 until Phil told him to dial it back. You're just a hater, no person who actually spent their life playing or managing basketball has Kobe outside the top10 and most have him in the top 5-7, plain and simple. No one who actually guarded Kobe will tell you his peak didn't "even come close" to Tim fukking Duncan or Hakeem. You called him a "fringe" top 10 player who's nowhere near Tim Duncan.....cool, but you're not hanging around any ballers saying that shyt.

 

[Cladyclad]

I like how Kobe went 7 years between championships, when we evaluating Kobe suddenly just making it there matters.

Duncan WON a Finals, and just 4 years later he WON another despite only returning 2 players from the 1999 team and both were .

LeBron WON a Finals, and just 3 years later he WON another for a completely different team that had been in the freaking lottery for four straight years before he came.





Duncan in 2003 breh.

These were the top players on the Spurs in that 2003 championship season:

Duncan
TP: (20yo from the bottom of the draft in his 2nd NBA season)
Ginobli: (rookie from the 2nd round who only averaged 7ppg that year)
Robinson: (37yo in his retirement season)
Stephen Jackson: (3rd-year player who had barely been on the court his first two seasons)

Spurs had to completely rebuild, mostly with young players that were grabbed with bad draft picks, and still managed to win a ring just 4 years after their previous one. Hell, the 2014 championship team was almost a rebuild too - other than TP and 36yo Ginobli that whole team was different than the 2007 championship squad.


Hell, LeGM built the entire Cavs team on the fly in 2015.

No

 

[Taadow]

no person who actually spent their life playing or managing basketball has Kobe outside the top10 and most have him in the top 5-7, plain and simple.

This is delusional fanatic talk.