PRIME IVERSON VS PRIME D WADE. WHO WAS BETTER?

[FTBS]

wheres all this Dwayne wade playoff success outside of playing with shaq and bron/bosh and playing in the worst conference in history?

lol @ Detroit having a championship core in 2009.

They had 3 of the 5 nikkas that started for a championship team with AI replacing one of the other two. They were basically the same team that went to the CF the year before and the year before that with AI taking Chauncey Billups place. We can parse words however you wish but their is no denying that team had talent and AI was unable/unwilling to make it work.

I don't judge players off of team success. I said that about AI's team success because nikkas keep trying to use that Finals run as proof of something when it was nothing more than a fluke. If he can "carry bums to the Finals" as nikkas are suggesting he should be able to carry Carmelo to at least the 2nd round and carry those Pistons to at the very least the same results that they had the year before (the previous 5 actually). That's why it's best not to use team success because it can lead to all kinds of circular arguments and completely digress from the point. We are comparing the two players not what circumstances they happened to be in. Wade, is a bigger, more efficient, more versatile, more unselfish player and a better defender and I would take him over AI any day.

 

[Wacky D]

They had 3 of the 5 nikkas that started for a championship team with AI replacing one of the other two. They were basically the same team that went to the CF the year before and the year before that with AI taking Chauncey Billups place. We can parse words however you wish but their is no denying that team had talent and AI was unable/unwilling to make it work.

I don't judge players off of team success. I said that about AI's team success because nikkas keep trying to use that Finals run as proof of something when it was nothing more than a fluke. If he can "carry bums to the Finals" as nikkas are suggesting he should be able to carry Carmelo to at least the 2nd round and carry those Pistons to at the very least the same results that they had the year before (the previous 5 actually). That's why it's best not to use team success because it can lead to all kinds of circular arguments and completely digress from the point. We are comparing the two players not what circumstances they happened to be in. Wade, is a bigger, more efficient, more versatile, more unselfish player and a better defender and I would take him over AI any day.

that pistons squad wasn't a championship team. they won the chip a whopping 5 seasons before Iverson got there.

dog, that pistons squad is one of my favorite teams of all-time. but im gonna be str8 up with you, they were done by 2007 AT THE LATEST. that's the reason why they traded for Iverson in the 1st place. they went to the ecf in '08 by default. who the hell else was gonna go to the ecf that year? they wouldn't have even made the playoffs in the west in 2008.

and by the time Iverson got there, the team was already in complete disarray. he was not the problem in Detroit. the media just used him as a scapegoat.

Iverson & melo didn't get out the 1st round because they were playing in the goat conference(west '07 & '08) and ended up playing the eventual nba champs in '07 and the eventual west champs in '08. that's still the nuggets fault for pissing away games in the regular season. they could've easily been a 2-seed in '08. AND STILL, they were winning 50+ games.

I understand that you don't judge players off of team success(me neither) and youre just arguing with someone else. im just disagreeing with your statement. I only jumped in this side-argument because people were trying to boost wade's team accomplishments.

 

[Street Knowledge]

The pistons were washed by 07', they didnt even have their anchor big ben. That wasnt the same championship team, the only reason they were able to stay afloat because the east was that bad.

 

[Wacky D]

The pistons were washed by 07', they didnt even have their anchor big ben. That wasnt the same championship team, the only reason they were able to stay afloat because the east was that bad.

yup.

if they were actually in a competitive conference, they would've blew that team up a couple years earlier than they did.

The 8 teams that made the playoffs the year the Sixers went to the finals
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/PHI/2001.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/MIL/2001.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/MIA/2001.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/NYK/2001.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/TOR/2001.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CHH/2001.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/ORL/2001.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/IND/2001.html

looks better than wade's eastern conference to me.

 

[FTBS]

that pistons squad wasn't a championship team. they won the chip a whopping 5 seasons before Iverson got there.

dog, that pistons squad is one of my favorite teams of all-time. but im gonna be str8 up with you, they were done by 2007 AT THE LATEST. that's the reason why they traded for Iverson in the 1st place. they went to the ecf in '08 by default. who the hell else was gonna go to the ecf that year? they wouldn't have even made the playoffs in the west in 2008.

and by the time Iverson got there, the team was already in complete disarray. he was not the problem in Detroit. the media just used him as a scapegoat.

Iverson & melo didn't get out the 1st round because they were playing in the goat conference(west '07 & '08) and ended up playing the eventual nba champs in '07 and the eventual west champs in '08. that's still the nuggets fault for pissing away games in the regular season. they could've easily been a 2-seed in '08. AND STILL, they were winning 50+ games.

I understand that you don't judge players off of team success(me neither) and youre just arguing with someone else. im just disagreeing with your statement. I only jumped in this side-argument because people were trying to boost wade's team accomplishments.

I didnt say the pistons were still a championship team i just said they had a championship core which they did. They were most certainly good enough to win 50 games and a round or two in the playoffs. You telling me that they have similar or evengreater struggles with Wade or Zeke or any of the other guys AI has no business being favorably compared to in place of AI?

I agree about the Nuggets. No way a team with AI, Melo and all that talent should be an 8th seed.

If you are gonna bring team success into you gotta be consistent. You can't give him props for 01 then talk about everybody else for every other year.

 

[Wacky D]

I didnt say the pistons were still a championship team i just said they had a championship core which they did. They were most certainly good enough to win 50 games and a round or two in the playoffs. You telling me that they have similar or evengreater struggles with Wade or Zeke or any of the other guys AI has no business being favorably compared to in place of AI?

I agree about the Nuggets. No way a team with AI, Melo and all that talent should be an 8th seed.

If you are gonna bring team success into you gotta be consistent. You can't give him props for 01 then talk about everybody else for every other year.

it was no longer a championship core dog. kid who were graduating middle school when the pistons won the chip, were now in college by the time iverson got there. that's like saying that the '93 pistons & '93 Celtics had championship cores. not to mention that the franchise was in disarray for other reasons.

at the nuggets stuff tho. I don't think we completely agree. lets not forget that the nuggets weren't a real 8th seed. they won over 50 games and would've easily been the #2 team in the east that year. sure I get on them for pissing games away, but its still not their fault that they were playing in the goat conference.

Iverson not only gets credit for '01. he kept that team poppin for a while before & after the '01 season. that's something that the other premier SGs of this century have proven that they cant do. kobe, wade, you name em. the sixers team was horrible by the mid-00s but they still made the postseason, and when they didn't, they had no chance of winning the lottery. you would never see an Iverson team be a front-runner to win the lottery like the '08 Miami heat.

 

[TheNig]

AI cuz he not gay.

 

[FTBS]

it was no longer a championship core dog. kid who were graduating middle school when the pistons won the chip, were now in college by the time iverson got there. that's like saying that the '93 pistons & '93 Celtics had championship cores. not to mention that the franchise was in disarray for other reasons.

at the nuggets stuff tho. I don't think we completely agree. lets not forget that the nuggets weren't a real 8th seed. they won over 50 games and would've easily been the #2 team in the east that year. sure I get on them for pissing games away, but its still not their fault that they were playing in the goat conference.

Iverson not only gets credit for '01. he kept that team poppin for a while before & after the '01 season. that's something that the other premier SGs of this century have proven that they cant do. kobe, wade, you name em. the sixers team was horrible by the mid-00s but they still made the postseason, and when they didn't, they had no chance of winning the lottery. you would never see an Iverson team be a front-runner to win the lottery like the '08 Miami heat.

Sheed was a 34 year old healthy big man, Rip was 30 and healthy, Tay was 28 and healthy. We aren't talking about a bunch of broken down/ nikkas here. They were still in or close enough to their respective primes and had championship experience together. The teams you mentioned were old and broken down and most importantly didn't have an ATG capable of "single-handedly carrying bums to the Finals" coming to town. There is no excuse for what happened that year...none.

As far as the Nuggets go we are talking about AI, Melo, Nene, Birdman, JR, Camby and Kenyon. If AI and Melo are who they are purported to be there is no excuse for them not winning 55-60 games with that around them, period. The west was extremely congested at the time. In 07-08, the year they won exactly 50 (not more that 50 games) they top seed won 57 games. Meaning those games they pissed away (which is all their fault by definition) was the difference between being any where from 1-7 seed and the 8th seed that they were. If you can carry bums to Finals don't tell me that Melo and those other guys isn't good enough to get 55+ wins and at the very least compete with the championship caliber squads. These nikkas got fukkin swept by the Lakers without Bynum or Ariza. Once again no excuse for that shyt.

/ at making the playoffs and getting bounced in the 1st round or missing the playoffs=keeping a team poppin and something that other premier SGs couldn't do. That's exactly what they all did when they didn't have help. You never saw an Iverson team as a front-runner to win a championship either so what are you really saying? See how stupid shyt can get when we get into this team shyt. He kept horrible teams "poppin" but couldnt' do shyt with talented ones.

 

[FTBS]

AI cuz he not gay.

Now see if nikkas had just said this from jump we couldv'e close this thread a long time ago.

 

[TheNig]

Now see if nikkas had just said this from jump we couldv'e close this thread a long time ago.

Have longwinded debates brehs.

 

[Wacky D]

Sheed was a 34 year old healthy big man, Rip was 30 and healthy, Tay was 28 and healthy. We aren't talking about a bunch of broken down/ nikkas here. They were still in or close enough to their respective primes and had championship experience together. The teams you mentioned were old and broken down and most importantly didn't have an ATG capable of "single-handedly carrying bums to the Finals" coming to town. There is no excuse for what happened that year...none.

As far as the Nuggets go we are talking about AI, Melo, Nene, Birdman, JR, Camby and Kenyon. If AI and Melo are who they are purported to be there is no excuse for them not winning 55-60 games with that around them, period. The west was extremely congested at the time. In 07-08, the year they won exactly 50 (not more that 50 games) they top seed won 57 games. Meaning those games they pissed away (which is all their fault by definition) was the difference between being any where from 1-7 seed and the 8th seed that they were. If you can carry bums to Finals don't tell me that Melo and those other guys isn't good enough to get 55+ wins and at the very least compete with the championship caliber squads. These nikkas got fukkin swept by the Lakers without Bynum or Ariza. Once again no excuse for that shyt.

/ at making the playoffs and getting bounced in the 1st round or missing the playoffs=keeping a team poppin and something that other premier SGs couldn't do. That's exactly what they all did when they didn't have help. You never saw an Iverson team as a front-runner to win a championship either so what are you really saying? See how stupid shyt can get when we get into this team shyt. He kept horrible teams "poppin" but couldnt' do shyt with talented ones.

dog, did you watch the team? they were clearly done by '07. Iverson played the '09 season. rasheed retired in 2010. hamilton was hitting his downside. tayshaun was basically the 5th dog when they won the title. their point guard and center weren't on the team when Iverson got there.

no the hell those other SGs didn't do what Iverson did. put kobe or wade on those mid-00s sixers teams, and they get top 5 picks for like 2 years str8. did wade even win 20 games in 2008? and it looked bad seeing numerous players do better after leaving Miami. and we already see how kobe struggled to make the playoffs with caron butler & lamar odom on his team. twice. the proof is already in the pudding. theres no arguing. then theres other primetime SGs that got knocked out by Iverson's squads, despite having better teams behind them(ray allen).

I think we're in agreement about the nuggets pissing away a handful of games.

 

[DetroitEWarren]

dog, did you watch the team? they were clearly done by '07. Iverson played the '09 season. rasheed retired in 2010. hamilton was hitting his downside. tayshaun was basically the 5th dog when they won the title. their point guard and center weren't on the team when Iverson got there.

no the hell those other SGs didn't do what Iverson did. put kobe or wade on those mid-00s sixers teams, and they get top 5 picks for like 2 years str8. did wade even win 20 games in 2008? and it looked bad seeing numerous players do better after leaving Miami. and we already see how kobe struggled to make the playoffs with caron butler & lamar odom on his team. twice. the proof is already in the pudding. theres no arguing. then theres other primetime SGs that got knocked out by Iverson's squads, despite having better teams behind them(ray allen).

I think we're in agreement about the nuggets pissing away a handful of games.

nikka, u cant be serious wit this shyt smh, nikkas really just spew bullshyt for the fukk of it. Wane and Kobe missed the playoffs ONCE apiece thru their whole careers no matter who was on the teams wit them. Wade led a team to the 2nd round as a rookie with players Kobe missed the playoffs with 1 year and won 2 games in the 1st round at the buzzer, foh nikka. Wade woulda done way better with them Sixers teams, you nikkas are crazy.

 

[mvp_status]

Let's stop with the team hypotheticals for a second.

Wade's defensive ability >>>>>>>> AI's. If you wanna say AI is a better offensive player, cool. But the gap between them defensively is significantly bigger than whatever gap there is offensively.

 

[Wacky D]

nikka, u cant be serious wit this shyt smh, nikkas really just spew bullshyt for the fukk of it. Wane and Kobe missed the playoffs ONCE apiece thru their whole careers no matter who was on the teams wit them. Wade led a team to the 2nd round as a rookie with players Kobe missed the playoffs with 1 year and won 2 games in the 1st round at the buzzer, foh nikka. Wade woulda done way better with them Sixers teams, you nikkas are crazy.

lol @ wade getting the sixers to the finals. lol.

I wasn't comparing kobe to wade. I agree with wade going to the playoffs with players that kobe missed the playoffs with. no argument there. what that gotta do wit Iverson tho?

 

[FTBS]

dog, did you watch the team? they were clearly done by '07. Iverson played the '09 season. rasheed retired in 2010. hamilton was hitting his downside. tayshaun was basically the 5th dog when they won the title. their point guard and center weren't on the team when Iverson got there.

no the hell those other SGs didn't do what Iverson did. put kobe or wade on those mid-00s sixers teams, and they get top 5 picks for like 2 years str8. did wade even win 20 games in 2008? and it looked bad seeing numerous players do better after leaving Miami. and we already see how kobe struggled to make the playoffs with caron butler & lamar odom on his team. twice. the proof is already in the pudding. theres no arguing. then theres other primetime SGs that got knocked out by Iverson's squads, despite having better teams behind them(ray allen).

I think we're in agreement about the nuggets pissing away a handful of games.

Yeah I watched the whole run. There was a noticeable dropoff when AI arrived. They halfassed their way to 59 wins and another trip to the CF the year prior. He was supposed to replace that pg and provide a lift and was unwilling/unable.

Did you see the squads that Kobe, TMac, Wade dragged into the playoffs? There is nothing he did on the court that they didn't. AI wouldve done much better in Wades spot in 07? I know he wouldn't have in any other season. at comparing the quality of seasons where teams missed the playoffs.