PRIME IVERSON VS PRIME D WADE. WHO WAS BETTER?

[FTBS]

No Semantics at all........Mike had to dominate the ball..........And Mike was in the triangle.........Kobe had to dominate the ball........And Kobe was in the triangle..........

Having to dominate the ball and not being able to play with other offensive players is 2 different things....

You get offensive players that compliments your star....ie Gasol.......or a defensive minded Pippen who could get to he basket if need be....and guard 3-4 positions on the other end.....

Larry Brown flaw was in thinking that A.I. wouldn't need a complimentary offensive player and surrounded him with defensive minded players first....

It is semantics because you are acknowledging that you at the very least implied it.

AI had better offensive options in both Denver and Detroit and even towards the end in Philly with Cwebb and Iggy and what did he do with them? Nothing. We can blame LB, Karl, even Kuester all day but the one constant here is AI.

Not saying he was a scrub or wasn't great...just saying that people are going overboard with the comparisons and plea coping. MJ, Kobe, Wade, Bron, TMac and other elite scorers were able to convert at 45% and up without a whole lotta help around them. There are no excuses for AI if you wanna put him in that class. His unwillingness to tweak his game (explicit quote ) eliminates the teammate excuse. Now can we just acknowledge him for what he was and leave it at that or are yall gonna continue to do him a disservice by comparing him to superior players?

 

[ManBearPig]

How many teams with top 5 defenses that made it to .....

94 rockets
2003 spurs
The 2004 pistons had 0 stars
09 magic
2011 mavs

 

[Field Marshall Bradley]

It is semantics because you are acknowledging that you at the very least implied it.

AI had better offensive options in both Denver and Detroit and even towards the end in Philly with Cwebb and Iggy and what did he do with them? Nothing. We can blame LB, Karl, even Kuester all day but the one constant here is AI.

Not saying he was a scrub or wasn't great...just saying that people are going overboard with the comparisons and plea coping. MJ, Kobe, Wade, Bron, TMac and other elite scorers were able to convert at 45% and up without a whole lotta help around them. There are no excuses for AI if you wanna put him in that class. His unwillingness to tweak his game (explicit quote ) eliminates the teammate excuse. Now can we just acknowledge him for what he was and leave it at that or are yall gonna continue to do him a disservice by comparing him to superior players?

You stretching the goal posts and switching up arguments now......

The premise of the thread was prime vs prime, but you harping on a 34 year old A.I. in Detroit.....

Its cool tho.....Live cats know what time it is.......

 

[Field Marshall Bradley]

94 rockets
2003 spurs
The 2004 pistons had 0 stars
09 magic
2011 mavs

Brilliant.....

2003....Tony Parker, Manu as a Rook, Captain Jack, and a faded Admiral still anchoring the post and of course Timmy

2004....The fact that you said 0 stars ...Duly noted......Rip, Big Game Chauncey, Sheed,

2009....D Pain, Hedo, Skip to My Lou, Rashad, Jameer Nelson

2011....The Jet, J-Kidd, Nowitki, Shawn Marion,

4 HOFers on that Spurs squad btw, 3 in their prime.... and 3 on that Mav squad with J Kidd playing extremely well.....But that's kind of irrelevant.....The bottom line is.......

Look at those cores.......Look at the type of surrounding players and their ability to create offense...Now lets juxtapose that with A.I.'s squad....

Matt Geiger
George Lynch
Ty Hill
Eric Snow....
Aaron Mckie...

A.I. and company already had the best record or 2nd best record in the east before they got Mutombo.....

Mutombo was an all star for a sorry Hawks team.....He gelled with the Hawks.....He got to the 76ers with about 22 games left in the season....He was not an upgrade perse, but mostly a stop gap at age 34 since Ratliff had got hurt....

Somebody had to backup Zo for the east all stars....Mutombo got in by default.....Don't know why yall can't read between the lines....Then again, I know exactly why yall discuss sports strictly on a surface level.....

 

[ManBearPig]

Brilliant.....

2003....Tony Parker, Manu as a Rook, Captain Jack, and a faded Admiral still anchoring the post and of course Timmy

2004....The fact that you said 0 stars ...Duly noted......Rip, Big Game Chauncey, Sheed,

2009....D Pain, Hedo, Skip to My Lou, Rashad, Jameer Nelson

2011....The Jet, J-Kidd, Nowitki, Shawn Marion,

4 HOFers on that Spurs squad btw, 3 in their prime.... and 3 on that Mav squad with J Kidd playing extremely well.....But that's kind of irrelevant.....The bottom line is.......

Look at those cores.......Look at the type of surrounding players and their ability to create offense...Now lets juxtapose that with A.I.'s squad....

Matt Geiger
George Lynch
Ty Hill
Eric Snow....
Aaron Mckie...

A.I. and company already had the best record or 2nd best record in the east before they got Mutombo.....

Mutombo was an all star for a sorry Hawks team.....He gelled with the Hawks.....He got to the 76ers with about 22 games left in the season....He was not an upgrade perse, but mostly a stop gap at age 34 since Ratliff had got hurt....

Somebody had to backup Zo for the east all stars....Mutombo got in by default.....Don't know why yall can't read between the lines....Then again, I know exactly why yall discuss sports strictly on a surface level.....

Wait..... Aaron was a scub now? and u praising kidd like he was still in and prime but have the courage to throw 14\14\3 Dpoy Mutombo under the bus



A

 

[Field Marshall Bradley]

Wait..... Aaron was a scub now? and u praising kidd like he was still in and prime but have the courage to throw 14\14\3 Dpoy Mutombo under the bus



A

I like Aaron McKie.....coming off the bench that is.....But since he was in their rotation heavy I through him in there.....
I would still take a 36 year old Kidd to run my squad vs a 29 year old McKie.....

Their core is what I'm really referring too....and it does not compare to that of other finals teams that had strong defensives.....And on another note, being offensively sound helps you out defensively as well....

And no. I am not throwing Mutombo under the bus. It is what it is.....And if those numbers you posted are his stats in the finals then you need to post Shaq's as well...

A couple of those boards\points came when the game was out of reach.....

 

[Francium]

Wade is my favorite player with Iverson behind, but it really isn't close when we are talking about primes.

Wade easily. I'm not going to even go into the numbers, because they don't lie. Iverson's scoring numbers are inefficient and inflated due to his minutes and style of play.

I don't think Iverson could take the 08-09 Miami Heat squad and have the same success Wade had.

Mario Chalmers (Rookie)
Iverson (01-02)
Jamario Moon
Udonis Haslem
Jermaine O'Neal (Coming off an injury and trade from the Raptors)

Bench:
Chris Quinn
Joel Anthony
Michael Bustley (Rookie)
Daequan Cook
James Jones
Dorell Wright (Spo didn't play him at all)

 

[ManBearPig]

I like Aaron McKie.....coming off the bench that is.....But since he was in their rotation heavy I through him in there.....
I would still take a 36 year old Kidd to run my squad vs a 29 year old McKie.....

Their core is what I'm really referring too....and it does not compare to that of other finals teams that had strong defensives.....And on another note, being offensively sound helps you out defensively as well....

And no. I am not throwing Mutombo under the bus. It is what it is.....And if those numbers you posted are his stats in the finals then you need to post Shaq's as well...

A couple of those boards\points came when the game was out of reach.....

if u really like Aaron McKie then you would know that he was averaged like 20ppg when he was starting.

I don't know... u sound like u just started basketball a couple of days ago.

- The Magic had Dwight and a bunch of good players like the Sixers did... and Nelson was out for the most part
- The Pistons had a great balanced roster but u said stars and I don't reconsider Rip and those guys A1 type of talent.
- JJ did more damage than Kidd in the playoffs if u ask me. The way he dominated that Lakers series is beyond greater than any Kidd had done other than provide leadership or what not.
-2003 had Duncan and role players. Parker was still young with a questionable jumper and Manu was only a Rookie. Robinson was retiring regardless of the outcome.

 

[FTBS]

You stretching the goal posts and switching up arguments now......

The premise of the thread was prime vs prime, but you harping on a 34 year old A.I. in Detroit.....

Its cool tho.....Live cats know what time it is.......

I am talking about his entire career. I mentioned every stop of his career but I am harping on Detroit? He was 33 BTW aka a year older than Chauncey and a year older than he was the previous year in Denver when he averaged 26 and 7 on 46% shooting. nikkas wanna keep harping on the numbers he put up from 29-32 and how he didn't have teammates before that but it's unfair to expect him to do work at 33 with teammates?

My arguments and goal posts have been the same from jump:

AI was not as impactful or efficient as Wade or other elite perimeter players and unwilling to adjust and his shooting percentage when he didn't have talent and his team failures when he did have talent bear that out.

 

[ManBearPig]

I am talking about his entire career. I mentioned every stop of his career but I am harping on Detroit? He was 33 BTW aka a year older than Chauncey and a year older than he was the previous year in Denver when he averaged 26 and 7 on 46% shooting. nikkas wanna keep harping on the numbers he put up from 29-32 and how he didn't have teammates but it's unfair to expect him to do work at 33 with teammates.

My arguments and goal posts have been the same from jump:

AI was not as impactful or efficient as Wade or other elite perimeter players and unwilling to adjust and his shooting percentage when he didn't have talent and his team failures when he did have talent bear that out.

Iverson fell off because he wasn't taking good care of his body as well.

 

[Propaganda]

i wonder if the guys giving iverson a pass for all his shortcomings do the same for other players.

if you just prefer ai for whatever reason (nostalgia, aesthetics, whatever), that's one thing. but that doesn't mean he was a better player...and i still haven't seen anyone make a sensible argument for putting ai over wade.

 

[Field Marshall Bradley]

if u really like Aaron McKie then you would know that he was averaged like 20ppg when he was starting.

I don't know... u sound like u just started basketball a couple of days ago.

- The Magic had Dwight and a bunch of good players like the Sixers did... and Nelson was out for the most part
- The Pistons had a great balanced roster but u said stars and I don't reconsider Rip and those guys A1 type of talent.
- JJ did more damage than Kidd in the playoffs if u ask me. The way he dominated that Lakers series is beyond greater than any Kidd had done other than provide leadership or what not.
-2003 had Duncan and role players. Parker was still young with a questionable jumper and Manu was only a Rookie. Robinson was retiring regardless of the outcome.

Alright....I'll play along.....How many games did McKie start for Philly....and....if his offensive skillset was plush you're implying, why did Larry have him come off the bench as opposed to playing 42 plus minutes?

If you want to compare a squad with an anchor in the middle that not only controlled the paint, but averaged 25.....in the paint mind you.....to that 2001 squad then be my guest.......Rashard Lewis and Hedo over Eric Snow and Ty Hill all day.......I don't think too many will disagree with that..

And Jameer was beasting before he got hurt......But you can take him off the list if you wanna.....

The greatest travesty is underrating that pistons squad....Prince could score, rebound, handle the rock and play great D. He could also defend several postions and play several positions...

Sheed......What can I say..Criminally underrated.....Anybody that ever watched Sheed's career knows this....

RIP.....When has Michael ever been able to evaluate talent? How could RIP get some burn in DC when a past his prime Mike still demanded to start....
Its a reason why RIP went to multiple all star games....I remember when he torched the Knicks for 50...But he aint no star......

Big Game Chauncey is just that...Big Game Chauncey...I'm sure he has several all star appearances, but he wasn't no star in 2004 either huh?

And my beloved Spurs....How dare you leave off the multi-faceted Captain jack...He could bring the ball up court, pull up and pop...Take it to the cup and finish...Play a lil at the 4.....And he played D....And yes, Parker's jumper was suspect but he sure could get to the cup or get by his man and distribute couldn't he......But I'm guessing you believe Eric Snow and McKie had more raw ability.....

And you right...I just started watching basketball...........






































































































































In 1985

 

[Field Marshall Bradley]

i wonder if the guys giving iverson a pass for all his shortcomings do the same for other players.

if you just prefer ai for whatever reason (nostalgia, aesthetics, whatever), that's one thing. but that doesn't mean he was a better player...and i still haven't seen anyone make a sensible argument for putting ai over wade.

Nah,,,Its been made.....You don't have to agree....But its definitely been made by several posters.....

 

[ghostwriterx]

I like Aaron McKie.....coming off the bench that is.....But since he was in their rotation heavy I through him in there.....
I would still take a 36 year old Kidd to run my squad vs a 29 year old McKie.....

Their core is what I'm really referring too....and it does not compare to that of other finals teams that had strong defensives.....And on another note, being offensively sound helps you out defensively as well....

And no. I am not throwing Mutombo under the bus. It is what it is.....And if those numbers you posted are his stats in the finals then you need to post Shaq's as well...

A couple of those boards\points came when the game was out of reach.....

Actually its the other way around. Going by your logic D'Antoni's teams would be good defensively.

 

[ghostwriterx]

You didn't answer the rest of my post playboy........

Google really can't answer it for you....


No Semantics at all........Mike had to dominate the ball..........And Mike was in the triangle.........Kobe had to dominate the ball........And Kobe was in the triangle..........

Having to dominate the ball and not being able to play with other offensive players is 2 different things....

You get offensive players that compliments your star....ie Gasol.......or a defensive minded Pippen who could get to he basket if need be....and guard 3-4 positions on the other end.....

Larry Brown flaw was in thinking that A.I. wouldn't need a complimentary offensive player and surrounded him with defensive minded players first....

http://m.espn.go.com/wireless/story?storyId=8149373&wjb=&pg=1&lang=ES
Rule No.3: If you get rid of his friends, cover your ears. It came to a head when the team released his pal Vernon Maxwell this season. A despondent Iverson went storming to Brown to say, "All my best friends are released or traded," which Brown denied to his face. "I said, 'Vernon isn't gone because he was close to you,'" Brown says. "But Allen said, 'What about Stackhouse?' And then he himself said, 'No, you're right, I couldn't have played with Stackhouse.' And then he said, 'Larry Hughes!' And then he said, 'Oh, you're right, I knew Larry had to leave because he and I play the same position.' And then all that stuff stopped."


http://www.nytimes.com/1997/12/19/s...-send-stackhouse-and-montross-to-pistons.html
Iverson said he and Stackhouse were beginning to get a feel for each other, but admitted that a trade was probably for the best.
"Stack's a great basketball player, but the situation he's in is probably better for him now," Iverson said. "It's a better situation for us."