PRIME IVERSON VS PRIME D WADE. WHO WAS BETTER?

[dontreadthis]

No they didn't. The sixers defense and hustle won them games. Next year when they drug in more scorers team went to shyt without the grinders.

oh ok so the sixers were a great defensive team who just happened to fall into the NBA Finals in spite of Allen Iverson.

"Next year when they drug in more scorers team went to shyt without the grinders."

1. the year after our finals run was an injury plagued year for A.I.
2. opponents scored less points per game against us the year after we lost in the finals (#2 least PPG against in the NBA)
3. you consider getting Matt Harpring and D.C "adding scorers"?

you were better off just sticking to your "iverson is an overrated chucker" agenda and then you started trying to feign like you had anything else to say.

 

[Rice N Beans]

Taking Iverson. Many people can say him being overrated was proven by the Denver years but it wasn't the best pot to make food in so to speak. I think if Iverson was on the Heat for 04-08 with Shaq they would have won more titles than Wade did but it seems I'm in the minority there.

 

[Juven]

really tough question

i think im going to take iv by a slight margin. Hed beast more if bulked up

id take prime tmac over both of them

 

[dh86]

A.I. played fine....Denver did what Denver and George Karl been doing....Karl had about 3 first round exits before 09. and 4 since....

Do you see a pattern here? What did A.I. have to do with the other 6-7 first round exits?

The pattern is the Nuggets having the exact same success under Andre Miller that they had with Iverson. The pattern is the Denver Nuggets having a jump in success after replacing Iverson with Billups. Is Andre Miller a Hall of Famer? Is Chauncey Billups? The pattern is the precipitous drop off the Pistons had with Iverson. There's a lot of talk in this thread about Iverson not having "talent" with him, and having to carry the load on offense. It seems the only way he won was by being the only option on offense and having an equally important guy on defense to protect him. And the East being a dumpster fire in 2001. That too.

 

[dh86]

You said they wouldn't even make the playoffs.

A prime Wade with Mutumbo, who won the DPOY the year they went to the finals, McKie, 6MOY that year and with that coach, Larry Brown who won COY, they definitely make the playoffs in that weak ass east.

The idea that the Sixers would be worse off with a bigger, more efficent, better defensive guard is ridiculous.

TMac led the Magic to the playoffs that year with Darrell Armstrong as his sidekick and Andrew DeClerq as his starting center but Wade wouldn't make it with that Sixers team?

The Sixers beat a Bucks team with Ervin Johnson and Scott Williams as your starting bigs. And Won with Iverson shooting 34%. Sixers won a game that series with AI shooting 5/27. They sweep Milwaukee that year with a 25 year old Wade.

 

[Field Marshall Bradley]

The pattern is the Nuggets having the exact same success under Andre Miller that they had with Iverson. The pattern is the Denver Nuggets having a jump in success after replacing Iverson with Billups. Is Andre Miller a Hall of Famer? Is Chauncey Billups? The pattern is the precipitous drop off the Pistons had with Iverson. There's a lot of talk in this thread about Iverson not having "talent" with him, and having to carry the load on offense. It seems the only way he won was by being the only option on offense and having an equally important guy on defense to protect him. And the East being a dumpster fire in 2001. That too.

@ this entire post

 

[mvp_status]

my nikka that was the EXACT starting lineup for most of our season and then Ratliff got traded for Mutombo.

Don't try to save him please. The fact that ya man said Ratliff instead All-Star/DPOY Deke is ridiculous enough. During the playoffs Lynch was injured most of that run, and Snow got benched for the reigning 6th man of the year.

So no, when they got to the Finals, that wasn't the lineup they were using.

 

[Reggie]

I'm no Melo apologist. I think they all deserve blame (Karl included). What about the rest of what I said though? Even in his prime I think AI would struggled to make an impact without dominating the ball and chucking.

I feel that but it's a lot of superstars who would struggle if they didn't dominate the ball like Kobe CP3 etc. So it's not like every other star over the years except AI thrived playing off the ball.

 

[Illuminatos]

Lol nikkas love the Iverson had no help argument.

That 2001 team had the DPOY, 6th man of the year, Coach of the year and the League MVP on it. Stop acting like the team was Iverson + scrubs.

Wade was infinitely better than AI. Three rings don't lie.

Just admit Iverson ran into a prime Shaq and young Kobe and got washed. Dudes act like they weren't the only team that won a game against the Lakers that postseason and then have the nerve to turn around and call Iverson's team trash.

 

[MoneyTron]

to be honest Clyde Drexler is equal to or better than Wade.
Wade isn't some once in a generation player. He's pretty much a star that had Shaq and Lebron.

J.R. Rider minus the headache, Eddie Jones, Gilbert, all in their primes are on par with Wade. Put them dudes with Lebron or Shaq and you have some beasts. Just my thoughts. I'd even throw Mitch Richmond in there.

I'm not even a Wade stan but you sound ignorant right here. None of them had Wade's ability to consistently get to the basket and score on or off the ball. Wade is quicker, stronger, and heavier than all of them as well.

I wouldn't call him once in a generation but resume wise the only SGs more successful than him are Jordan, West, and Bryant.

 

[FTBS]

I feel that but it's a lot of superstars who would struggle if they didn't dominate the ball like Kobe CP3 etc. So it's not like every other star over the years except AI thrived playing off the ball.

You put Kobe, CP3, Wade, Bron, or any other elite PG or wing who can facilitate/score on that Pistons team in place of Billups and they compete for a championship, like they did for the previous 5 seasons. You put any of those guys on the Nuggets in AI's place and they finish with higher seeds and probably compete for championships. You put any of those guys in Philly with that great defensive squad and ask them to shoot 30 times a night and they could have given you exactly what AI did, plus more. Only difference is you wouldn't have had to ship out other young talented wings (Stack/Hughes) to cater to them. Well maybe for Kobe and he still does everything that AI does better and gives you things that AI doesn't.

 

[THE K-MAN]

to be honest Clyde Drexler is equal to or better than Wade.

 

[Reggie]

AI has no excuses for not making things work in Detroit but at the same time they were on their way down anyway plus their was a lot of dissension in the ranks with Billups being traded and players not liking Kuester. They were a sinking ship regardless. And the Nuggets went to the conference finals immediately after he was traded and that looks bad on him but that looks more like a fluke considering Karl's failures in the playoffs before and since then. And you say put those players on certain teams in place of Chuck. So let's do the same for him. Put him on a team with a prime Shaq like Kobe had or even a diminished Shaq like Wade had and let's see what he would have done. AI couldn't mesh with certain talent no doubt about that. But when did the Sixers ever try to get him a post player like guys like Kobe and CP3 have had their whole careers. In hindsight are we surprised that AI and Stackhouse (two gunners) or AI and a young Larry Hughes didn't work out? And him and Stackhouse both averaged over 20 a game their one full season together and if they could have gotten along probably would have gotten a lot better by playing with each other. But if the Sixers had built around AI the right way with trying to acquire a 20 and 10 power forward or center type and a knockdown shooter at the 3 spot Allen Iverson would be looked at in a much different light? Thought they didn't have a very good team is it a coincidence that he had perhaps his best individual season with a good shooting percentage when he those two things with a diminished C-Webb and a young Kyle Korver in 2005-2006. And he shot well in his season and a half with the Nuggets too. This perception that AI couldn't co-exist with elite talent is a myth. Cause in his prime he had no top 10 or 20 player on his squad with him. He had players like DC who balled during his first stint in Philly. Then you got him playing with players like Stackhouse Hughes and Thomas who proved over the years to not be great players anyway. Everyone else including C-Webb Big Dog Iggy Kukoc were either old young or not in their prime anymore.

 

[jwinfield]

The Sixers beat a Bucks team with Ervin Johnson and Scott Williams as your starting bigs. And Won with Iverson shooting 34%. Sixers won a game that series with AI shooting 5/27. They sweep Milwaukee that year with a 25 year old Wade.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4746227

If crooked NBA playoff series were heavyweight boxers, then the 2002 Western finals (Lakers-Kings) was George Foreman and the 2001 Eastern finals (Bucks-Sixers) was Earnie Shavers. Translation: People remember only George, but Earnie was almost as memorable. To briefly recap, Philly's wins in Games 1 and 4 swung on a controversial lane violation and two egregious no-calls. The Sixers finished with advantages of 186-120 in free throws, 12-3 in technicals and 5-0 in flagrant fouls. Glenn Robinson, one of Milwaukee's top-two scorers, didn't even attempt a free throw until Game 5. Bucks coach George Karl and star Ray Allen were fined a combined $85,000 after the series for claiming the NBA rigged it. In that game, Milwaukee's best big man, Scott Williams, was charged with a flagrant foul but not thrown out, only to be suspended, improbably, for Game 7.

The defining game: When Philly stole a must-win Game 4 in Milwaukee despite an atrocious performance from Iverson (10-for-32 shooting), helped by a 2-to-1 free-throw advantage and a host of late calls. How one-sided was it? When an official called a harmless touch foul to sendSam Cassell to the line with two seconds left and the Bucks trailing by seven (maybe the all-time we-need-to-pad-the-free-throw-stats-so-they-don't-seem-so-lopsided-afterward call), the subsequent sarcastic standing ovation nearly morphed into the first-ever sarcastic riot. And this was Milwaukee, the most easygoing city in the country! Nobody remembers this. The real loser was Allen, who exploded for 190 points in the series, including a record nine threepointers in do-or-die Game 6. Nobody remembers this, either. Even I didn't remember it. Crap.

 

[FTBS]

AI has no excuses for not making things work in Detroit but at the same time they were on their way down anyway plus their was a lot of dissension in the ranks with Billups being traded and players not liking Kuester. They were a sinking ship regardless. And the Nuggets went to the conference finals immediately after he was traded and that looks bad on him but that looks more like a fluke considering Karl's failures in the playoffs before and since then. And you say put those players on certain teams in place of Chuck. So let's do the same for him. Put him on a team with a prime Shaq like Kobe had or even a diminished Shaq like Wade had and let's see what he would have done. AI couldn't mesh with certain talent no doubt about that. But when did the Sixers ever try to get him a post player like guys like Kobe and CP3 have had their whole careers. In hindsight are we surprised that AI and Stackhouse (two gunners) or AI and a young Larry Hughes didn't work out? And him and Stackhouse both averaged over 20 a game their one full season together and if they could have gotten along probably would have gotten a lot better by playing with each other. But if the Sixers had built around AI the right way with trying to acquire a 20 and 10 power forward or center type and a knockdown shooter at the 3 spot Allen Iverson would be looked at in a much different light? Thought they didn't have a very good team is it a coincidence that he had perhaps his best individual season with a good shooting percentage when he those two things with a diminished C-Webb and a young Kyle Korver in 2005-2006. And he shot well in his season and a half with the Nuggets too. This perception that AI couldn't co-exist with elite talent is a myth. Cause in his prime he had no top 10 or 20 player on his squad with him. He had players like DC who balled during his first stint in Philly. Then you got him playing with players like Stackhouse Hughes and Thomas who proved over the years to not be great players anyway. Everyone else including C-Webb Big Dog Iggy Kukoc were either old young or not in their prime anymore.

The same can be said about that Finals run in 01 considering what happened before and after that. AI cannot do all the things that Kobe can do especially defensively. They probably get a title but I doubt they get 3 together. The Dikembe that AI had in 01 was pretty comparable to the diminished Shaq that AI had and actually had a better Finals. Quality post players who put up 20 and 10 don't just grow on trees. Who could they have realistically gotten that they didnt' get? They had Ratliff and traded him for Dikembe because he got hurt and they wanted to go all in for 01. As far as Stack and Hughes go, my point was that you can't play the "he didn't have any talent/who was he supposed to pass to" card when he couldnt' co-exist with talented guys who could score to the point where they were shipped out. The year he had Webber he had great year (also coincided with the rules changes freeing up perimeter guys) and his team didn't even go .500 so are you sure you wanna hold that up and proof of something. He could have tried to turn Nene into a 20/10 guy in Denver, instead he wanted to prove he could go point for point with Melo and they were nothing more than 1st round fodder. You already conceded the Detroit debacle. AI was great player, however he could only be successful and help your team in a certain way. Anything outside of that he was useless and those things (moving the ball, post-play, defense, rebounding) just happen to be keys to winning.