Playing The Last Of Us 2 For The First Time

[Don Homer]

If i were to criticize the writing at all I’d say it was overtly convenient for abby to even run into joel in that way, otherwise it would have been impossible for her to kill him and leave in one piece

But tommy or joel calling to one another when running from man eating plant people is not hard to believe at all. It’s the most believable thing that happens the entire game

Also doesn’t make sense for them to leave tommy and ellie alive knowing why they’re there in the first place but again, thats part of the genius of the game.

Them leaving ellie and tommy alive let them believe they were still the good guys. They were just on a mission to kill the guy that killed abbys father and the cure for disease, aka hitler himself. They werent actual murderers just survivors.

The entire game exists in a moral grey zone. If you had played as Abbie from the first game you would 100% understand why they wanted to kill this guy.

I get why Abby did it, I said that in a previous post.

I’m fine with the writing. It’s a great game. The ppl who dislike the game so much try and shyt on everything about the game instead of just not plAying it. You know, like healthy people would.

only big issue I have is the constant back tracking as the story progresses.

 

[Gizmo_Duck]

I get why Abby did it, I said that in a previous post.

I’m fine with the writing. It’s a great game. The ppl who dislike the game so much try and shyt on everything about the game instead of just not plAying it. You know, like healthy people would.

only big issue I have is the constant back tracking as the story progresses.

Yeah, I’m mostly agreeing with you, its just that first encounter seems to be the main point of contention with people, that and the ending.

 

[Deep_Black_Conscious]

I think a lot of us has been asking for that for a while. If ND ever did that. You know it’s going to be that crowd who’s the minority but the loudest saying “they only made this DLC to further antagonize Joel to justify Abby killing him. Boycott ND”. I bet they’d still buy it though. Just like the rumored TLOU Remake with TLOU2’s engine. People complaining about it but they know they’re still copping it.

I mean, that's exactly what they're going to do if they have an agenda to dead this Joel thing and people can continue to say see he got what he deserve
Neil does have an obession with Abby and Joel being a bad guy narrative started after the TLOU2 controversy which IMO is a strategy to shield critique of the story in anyway especially if you are upset about Joel's death or how they went about it
The fukk Joel thing is bizarre since it only came out as a defense of people getting mad about him getting offed
We all knew Joel was a savage animal but you know there are people who will dikk ride ND for anything
Joel was never a "good" person and never acted like he was and was never painted as such in the 1st game but that doesn't mean people still can't like his character
Kratos wiped an entire race of people and people love him
Joel dying was expected for me though but the ending was such a cop out with that bullshyt flashback come on breh
If they are objective it will just be Joel being Joel with so not even the Joel dikk riders have nothing to be mad about
Complete violence and ruthlessness with no agenda trying to make him look any type of way just revealing what he has always been
It has to be brutal though to see how evil Joel's actions were (entire families getting wiped out no children spared) with some glimmers of Joel's past humanity remerging that got restored after meeting Ellie

 

[Gizmo_Duck]

I mean, that's exactly what they're going to do
Neil does have an obession with Abby and Joel being a bad guy narrative started after the TLOU2 controversy which IMO is a strategy to shield critique of the story in anyway especially if you are upset about Joel's death or how they went about it
The fukk Joel thing is bizarre since it only came out as a defense of people getting mad about him getting offed
We all knew Joel was a savage animal but you know there are people who will dikk ride ND for anything
Joel dying was expected for me though but the ending was such a cop out with that bullshyt flashback come on breh
If they are objective it will just be Joel being Joel with so not even the Joel dikk riders have nothing to be mad about
Complete violence and ruthlessness with no agenda trying to make him look any type of way just revealing what he has always been
It has to be brutal though to see how evil Joel's actions were (entire families getting wiped out no children spared) with some glimmers of Joel's past humanity remerging that got restored after meeting Ellie

I just like that it wasn’t a typical hero send off which is incredibly rare for a game these days, even for movies. The game pulled no punches and kept me on the edge of my seat for 20 something hours, thats hard to do.

Like i said before, it was like

Everyone gets caught slipping eventually

 

[tinnyskillz]

I mean, that's exactly what they're going to do if they have an agenda to dead this Joel thing and people can continue to say see he got what he deserve
Neil does have an obession with Abby and Joel being a bad guy narrative started after the TLOU2 controversy which IMO is a strategy to shield critique of the story in anyway especially if you are upset about Joel's death or how they went about it
The fukk Joel thing is bizarre since it only came out as a defense of people getting mad about him getting offed
We all knew Joel was a savage animal but you know there are people who will dikk ride ND for anything
Joel was never a "good" person and never acted like he was and was never painted as such in the 1st game but that doesn't mean people still can't like his character
Kratos wiped an entire race of people and people love him
Joel dying was expected for me though but the ending was such a cop out with that bullshyt flashback come on breh
If they are objective it will just be Joel being Joel with so not even the Joel dikk riders have nothing to be mad about
Complete violence and ruthlessness with no agenda trying to make him look any type of way just revealing what he has always been
It has to be brutal though to see how evil Joel's actions were (entire families getting wiped out no children spared) with some glimmers of Joel's past humanity remerging that got restored after meeting Ellie

Spoiler

I think the only agenda ND (or maybe just Neil & the writers, idk) may have is being inclusive to the LGBTQ community in TLOU series. Other than that, i think they're just telling their story. Not even the devs agree with every decision made. So far i haven't had a problem with any of it. I'm thoroly enjoying everything they're doing with the series. I give props to the writers, Neil, the devs, actors, everyone.

Now, Joel being a bad guy definitely wasn't a post TLOU2 narrative. They (ND) alluded to it in the first game, we just didn't see, or play it (it was his past, maybe they were just surviving, we don't know the whole story really). We see Joel protect little girl Ellie, then we did see, and play what Joel did at the hospital. I would say a majority of players thought he was justified. But there were also a ton of people who i personally watch on YouTube (crumbside specifically lol), and Twitch who seen it as selfish (or bad guy-esque).

Then there's the fact that he lied about it to Ellie's face. Imo neither side is wrong. You said Joel painted as a bad guy "doesn't mean people still can't like his character" and you are 100% correct. But to me, if you (not you specifically) were on the "it's justified" side after ND announced Part II. You had to have been open to understanding that most likely there would be consequences in the sequel for the choice Joel made.

I swear years before the release of TLOU2 everybody was predicting Joel would die. People were willing to accept that. The thing is though, everybody wanted him to die in a heroic way. But that would be rather cliché wouldn't it? Since when has cliché become great? People didn't ask for a cliché Joel death, but that's clearly what they wanted.
They wanted Joel to get to say goodbye to Ellie, and have some wise last words for her, or something. But that's (again) cliché, it's done all the time, and that's not how it goes in real life. In real life we don't always get to say goodbye to our loved ones, or end on great terms at the time of their death.

The adventures of Joel & Ellie Part II i'm sure would have been dope. But what ND did was similar to when an artist like Kanye, or Kendrick take a callosal risk, and completely change their style up for an album. TLOU1 is light/love, at least compared to TLOU2 which is a very dark/hateful game. ND just told the other side of the story with a twist (there are no good/bad guys, not even the protagonist) and made it playable that's all. I guess you can say it's like their ghetto point of view lol.


Another thing i wanted to say about Joel is he's kind of similar to Tookie Williams. Tookie was co-founder of the Crips. He was an American gangster, who went to jail, turned his life around, and wrote books (some were for children). He was subject to get the death penalty because of his past. Many people rallied behind him (Jamie Foxx was one), and fought to save his life because he was a changed man. But he still got the death penalty because his past.

Joel's past decision cost him his life. He's killed so many people, and there's no erasing that. No matter how much good, and settling down he's done afterwards.


On another note. There's so many different demographics, and variables with the fandom of the series.

for example there's folk who feels like this:

TLOU1>TLOU2---Hate Abby
TLOU2>TLOU1---Indifferent about Abby---Love the gameplay
TLOU2>TLOU1---Love Abby
TLOU1>TLOU2---Hate Part II's story---Love the gameplay
TLOU1>TLOU2---Part II kills Joel in the first 2 hours
TLOU1>TLOU2---Think's Part II's gameplay is the same as Part 1's
TLOU2>TLOU1---Think's Part II had a better story, and gameplay
TLOU1>TLOU2---Think's Part II had a better story, and gameplay, but worse pacing, and characters.

There's like hundreds of these. I think it's part of the reason i love the series though. I've since watched 12 different playthroughs after i beat it last year in June/July. Everyone reacts different to all the twist, and turns part II has. Everyone's opinions are different.

Sorry for the long reply.

 

[Gizmo_Duck]

This scene perfectly describes the kind of people joel and tommy were before we met them

 

[MischievousMonkey]

This scene perfectly describes the kind of people joel and tommy were before we met them

If they do a prequel, I want to see Joel beat the fukk out of Tommy just like Tommy said he used to do in TLOU1.

 

[jwinfield]

This scene perfectly describes the kind of people joel and tommy were before we met them

And where did we see this tactic used

In the first game



It's ridiculous to claim that Joel having done some fukked up shyt in the past is some retcon shyt.

 

[Genos]

One of the goats, doing my 3rd playthrough. 1st time on PS5. If they do a 4k ray tracing version for ps5 its going to look real

 

[Genos]

All those questions are answered during the game. My biggest problem with the story is how abby's story doesnt get told until later on and by that point you hate her for killing Joel.


Your enjoyment of the game is really gonna depend on your opinion of Abby. I liked her personally, but I understand why most hate her.

I think that's the point. In real life the people we hate are still people too. They have their own lives and friends and may pass into your life with some fukk shyt

 

[Gizmo_Duck]

And where did we see this tactic used

In the first game



It's ridiculous to claim that Joel having done some fukked up shyt in the past is some retcon shyt.

good catch

 

[Chris Cool]

I lightweight wanna run through it again. Best the first one twice over the summer and finished a game of part 2 I started when ps5 dropped. Beat this shyt 3 times already. permadeath the only one that I need.

 

[I Really Mean It]

Made it past the aquarium and just saw Jamie take one to the head. I liked him, so his sudden death was a bit jarring, but to be expected in a game that started with the death of its main character. I’ve read that I’m only half way through and that the game has a lot more to show, including twists and turns that might leave a bad taste. We will see. I’ve just begun what I assume is Abby’s collection of missions that’ll add context to her decisions earlier.

The reveal behind Joel’s death could have been presented slightly better, though it makes perfect sense and shows how there is a thread that connects everything we do in life, going through choices and consequences.

A little annoyed by Ellie’s sudden disbelief at it all. It doesn’t feel natural and seems out of character. Maybe she’s softened because of how she feels about Dina, but the breakdowns seem artificial.

I like Abby and perfectly understand her motivations. Like Ellie, she’s driven by rage that might draw unintended blood.

I love the human encounters, replaying them to see how many variations of kills I can discover. The context sensitive style of combat is unparalleled. More third person games need to take note of how masterful the combat in this game is.

Well, I’m in this supermarket with Abby and the other two. Back to the game.

 

[I Really Mean It]

Oh, forgot to mention I LOVE the accessibility features. The breadth of variables available to mold the game to your liking is unprecedented. I know it might be considered cheating, but I put the gunplay to slow motion. I hated how Naughty Dog handles guns in TLOU, and it’s just as bad in its sequel. Slow motion makes it manageable and even fun, especially when you have a powerful gun and want to take a limb off. I’ve also upped the combat difficulty to its hardest and lowered the resource difficulty, giving you plenty of ammo to deal with enemies at their toughest.

 

[Black Ball]

Spoiler: If you haven't finished the game don't read.












My biggest problem with the story is Ellie going back out that last time to hunt down Abby after everything that she knows. She knew Abby was both justified and a merciful person. They really turned Ellie into the villain of the game.