Personally, what do you think of Affirmative Action?

theworldismine13

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I didn't catch this back then, but you're wrong and your assumptions are flawed. You assume that because AA is gone that the only cause in those drop in numbers could be because of AA. In actuality, I sat on the panel that looked into that stuff and AAs were accepted at the exact same rate as before and were no longer choosing to attend Michigan. There was a stigma attached after the AA misrepresentation. We had recruiters trying to figure out how kids were now choosing Iowa over Michigan.

if what you say it's true then it's more evidence that aa is useless

what happened in Cali is that minority enrollment decreased at the top 2 schools but it ballooned at the other schools, so overall the number of minority students in the system increased
 

NZA

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what do i think personally?

black people's unemployment rates are twice the national average, so it seems AA is more important to some white people as a talking point than it is as a matter of daily life. there is no epidemic of black people taking white people's jobs or places in college.

of those that are really happening, i assume primarily unremarkable white men who are expendable and dont have important friends in high places make up the lion's share of AA casualties, if there are any, and i assume they are more likely to be replaced by a white woman
 

Blackking

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typical response will be


"Two problems. One is that words DO have power. So stop using the phrase "affirmative action" and make it "preferential treatment."

The other is that while almost everyone else has done much better in the past 40-50 years (e.g., look at the number of women in colleges and ALL of the professions), blacks continue as a group to slip down - failed or failing black-majority cities (like, in my original home state of MI, Detroit & Saginaw & Flint), a collapsed family (75% of black children born to single mothers with fathers largely absent), falling literacy & high school graduation rates, and so forth. Some have genuinely done well on their own, but without social life support, black America as a group collapses. So do we now penalize everyone else (e.g., Asians, who do VERY well without racial preferences thank you very much ) to keep blacks afloat - when it is demonstrably their own irresponsibility and misconduct as a group that holds them back?

I say no. No law or policy can save people from themselves, and we have done enough damage to our society trying to pound this particular square peg into a round hole."
 

DEAD7

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Lack of human capital is the problem, and AA cant make up for that.

at this point the only people benefiting from AA in any meaningful way are white women.
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Tommy Knocks

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black folks need to start actually using this law. that's what I think about it. I can only think of ONE black woman that has used AA, and that's because she was a law student. Most black folks don't even know they have the option but get drilled about AA during talking points from whites. I mean if your going to get accused, might as well start using the law and REALLY making them mad. :manny:
 

ogc163

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black folks need to start actually using this law. that's what I think about it. I can only think of ONE black woman that has used AA, and that's because she was a law student. Most black folks don't even know they have the option but get drilled about AA during talking points from whites. I mean if your going to get accused, might as well start using the law and REALLY making them mad. :manny:

What do you mean start "using" the law? Not trying to come at you sideways just asking for clarity.
 

rapbeats

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typical response will be


"Two problems. One is that words DO have power. So stop using the phrase "affirmative action" and make it "preferential treatment."

The other is that while almost everyone else has done much better in the past 40-50 years (e.g., look at the number of women in colleges and ALL of the professions), blacks continue as a group to slip down - failed or failing black-majority cities (like, in my original home state of MI, Detroit & Saginaw & Flint), a collapsed family (75% of black children born to single mothers with fathers largely absent), falling literacy & high school graduation rates, and so forth. Some have genuinely done well on their own, but without social life support, black America as a group collapses. So do we now penalize everyone else (e.g., Asians, who do VERY well without racial preferences thank you very much ) to keep blacks afloat - when it is demonstrably their own irresponsibility and misconduct as a group that holds them back?

I say no. No law or policy can save people from themselves, and we have done enough damage to our society trying to pound this particular square peg into a round hole."
no policy can save people from themselves you say? thats true. unless the policy isnt saving people from themselves. it saves people from their oppressors and what their oppressors have done to them. which have to some extent retarded them.

what do you think happens if you take a nice watch dog from a nice neighborhood that gets walked on the daily, has a good diet, gets dog training on the regular basis, and knows when and when not to bark. what happens when someone steals this dog from the original owners. leaves him in a very tiny back yard with a bad diet(scraps and crap), never walks him, no more dog training. then all of a sudden the dog is let go to be free after 5 years of this. how do you think said dog would act? just like he use to with the good owners? or crazy like the other crazy dogs that have been mistreated?
its called trauma for a reason. its traumatizing what has happened to people of color by the hands of white people in general. and not HAS happened. STILL happens.

So its not just a case of said dog being free but not understand his freedom. he isnt reallllly free either. cause the moment he starts smelling that real freedom. some white cop pulls him over just cause he's black. to remind him. "boyyyy you aint free cause you aint white."

what do you think that would do to a people? psychologically speaking?

what happens to the mind effects how you move in life. So to FIX IT, it will take a very long time. but for starters. you have to do SOMETHING. YOU being the WHITE population. why you? because your ancestors are the ones who put black people in this condition. they did not do this to themselves. sure some blacks will always be lazy just like some whites. but we dont even know which blacks those are. because the condition those older whites put them in have made more lazy blacks then their would have been otherwise if they were treated like humans from day one. this is a key point no white person wants to acknowledge. or not many.

and again its not just about what white people DID. its what they are STILL doing to black people. stop doing it. then start using your white priviledge to help them. and part of that help starts with COMPASSION and honesty. once you're honest with the past and what white people have done to black folks. and you're honest to what white people still do to black folks today. and honest with the fact white folks are still on top today and its not because they worked harder. So once you do that as a white person. then start to give black people a pass for a lot of the crazy ish we do. remember we are some what retarded because of what you guys have done to us and still do to us. give us some time to snap out of it. this is the truth that a lot of black folks that are anti affirmative action even if it did work right. they are also delusional. and dont want to ADMIT they are/were victims. when you're a victim like the black race has been for this long. you have to realize their is trauma that comes with it. it messes with your mental state. who wants to admit something made them a bit crazy? NO ONE.

its like VEts coming home from the war. Yes You are a little crazy because of what you saw and what you had to go thru. the difference is at least you CHOSE to enlist. black people didnt ask for this crap. it was forced upon them.

so until the above happens Nothing will change on a large scale. sure some black folks from bad areas wiill get out. just by black folk helping their own. sure we can do a better job of it. but even with that. we would never fix all the fixable black folks without whites folks helping out a great deal. unless you're advocating taking over white people in areas where blacks reside. or unless you're advocating blacks leaving areas where whites rule and telling them to go find places where blacks rule and are not apart of some white colonialism.

so if it aint the last paragraph you need white folks to step up. and a part of stepping up is actually stepping down...that means giving up some of if not all of their white privilege so no one has any SPECIAL privilege based on race. now who do you know that is willing to give up their SPECIAL privileges?
 
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Tommy Knocks

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What do you mean start "using" the law? Not trying to come at you sideways just asking for clarity.
meaning use AA. So many people complaining about unemployment, yet no one is using AA. I'm sure all these places that are rejecting black applications are not meeting their quotas, but no one is calling them on it.
 

No1

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Lee Bollinger (named defendant in the other case) spoke about affirmative action in June.

A Long, Slow Drift From Racial Justice
By LEE C. BOLLINGER
THE Supreme Court has again upheld the principles behind race-conscious affirmative action, no small feat for the cause of diversity in higher education. But in framing the issue very technically, it has, wittingly or not, continued its drift away from the ideals it advanced in the civil rights era, beginning with Brown v. Board of Education.

In its decision on Monday, in Fisher v. University of Texas, the court ordered a federal appellate court to take a fresh look — under the demanding standard of “strict scrutiny” — at whether Texas’ public universities were properly using race as one factor (among many) in admitting a diverse student body. The appellate court will have to examine “how the process works in practice,” Justice Anthony M. Kennedy wrote in the decision for the majority.

As a law professor, and as the named defendant in the last two major affirmative action cases decided by the Supreme Court (in my capacity as president of the University of Michigan at the time), in 2003, I breathed a slight sigh of relief on Monday. But I worry that the new ruling will empower lower courts and, no doubt, litigants to challenge benign considerations of race — those that seek to advance legitimate goals of diversity in education — more easily than ever.

The court is as much an educator, a moral instructor, as an interpreter of the fundamental law of the land. In construing the constitutional issues so narrowly, the decision can be read as taking a reluctant, even begrudging, stance toward affirmative action.

Part of this hesitance is, no doubt, a product of judicial compromise. But for ordinary Americans, the linkage between race-conscious college admissions and the larger project of social justice is at risk of being lost amid the minutiae.

In Regents of the University of California v. Bakke, the landmark 1978 case on affirmative action, Justice Lewis F. Powell Jr. ruled that quotas were unconstitutional in any context but permitted colleges to consider race as one factor in admissions — provided that they embraced the policies for educational benefits and not as a remedy for past societal discrimination. While his distinction was understandable, it contributed to an unfortunate uncoupling of affirmative action from its social context. There is a moral and constitutional difference between policies that take into account the realities of America’s troubled racial history, and pernicious forms of discrimination, like the Jim Crow laws.

The enduring effects of nearly four centuries of racial subjugation and subordination — much of it state-sanctioned — have not vanished even though the United States has a black president. We may hope that Justice Sandra Day O’Connor’s prediction in 2003 that affirmative action would not be necessary in 25 years is true, but the time frame may sadly be too brief, given our fraught history.

In many school districts, racial segregation is as bad as it was before Brown. About 40 percent of black and Hispanic children attend K-12 schools where 10 percent or fewer of their classmates are white. Residential racial segregation remains deeply entrenched. Proposition 209, a voter-sanctioned ban on affirmative action at California’s public universities, led to a sharp decrease in representation of black students at the Berkeley and Los Angeles campuses. While 43 percent of whites have a college degree, 27 and 19 percent of blacks and Hispanics, respectively, hold one.

Despite those disparities, Fisher can be read as setting a high bar for consideration of race in admissions: universities must demonstrate that race or ethnicity has not been the defining feature in an admissions decision; that the use of race is necessary to achieve the educational benefits of diversity; and that there is no “available, workable” race-neutral alternative to achieve such benefits. It will not be impossible for universities, public and private, to meet these requirements, but it may well prove difficult, time-consuming and costly. Lower courts will have to see whether the University of Texas meets the test. The flagship Austin campus admits three-quarters of its students under a program that guarantees admission to the top students in every high school in the state. The rest are admitted under “holistic” criteria — of which race is but one.

The greatest moments of jurisprudence have never been merely dry legal analysis, but have been linked to broader principles — and historical and social realities — from which they derive. One cost of Monday’s ruling may be the failure to renew a conversation about racial justice as the civil-rights era recedes further and further into the past. Strikingly, it was Justice Clarence Thomas who most engaged the vital historical context, writing that “arguments advanced by the University in defense of discrimination are the same as those advanced by the segregationists.” I disagree profoundly with his logic, though I admire his candor.

While a strong majority has affirmed the status quo on affirmative action, for now, advocates of racial justice have much work ahead of us before the next time this issue reaches the high court.
 
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