mastermind
Rest In Power Kobe
This, the Navajo people who got forced out of Los Alamos and the dead Japanese people were barely mentioned.
Oppenheimer (Directed by Christopher nolan)
- Thread starter Max.
- Start date
The affair was VERY NECESSARY. Jean Tatlock was a hardcore communist, but was in love with Oppenheimer. Oppenheimer snuck to her hotel DURING the Manhatten Project and a spy was tracking his rendezvous to see her. Why this is important? Because of the question of who leaked the information to the Russians and Oppenheimer sneaking to see Jean was viewed as suspicious and presumptive of him giving her pillow talk on the details of making the bomb. This is why he had to testify his relationship with Jean during the hearing. On top of that, Jean's death is a parallel guilt to what he'll have with the creation of the nuclear bomb. Dealing with Jean like with the making of the bomb was taboo and dangerous. Lastly, it showed the resiliency of Kitty, his wife. Kitty knew about the affair, detested it but still stood by him because she understood the bigger picture and his importance to the project.
The entire movie was based purely through Oppenheimer's subjective mind and Strauss objective mind. Strauss came afterwards and Oppenheimer wasn't in Japan and wasn't really there to force the Navajo people out, yet also the one who told the one who told Truman to give the land back to them. We also see how he visibly felt about the suffering of the Japanese people from his perspective.
It's not that it's wasn't addressed, but the movie is called OPPENHEIMER. The entire movie is purposely though his eyes and understand how he may have felt at that moment.
mastermind
Rest In Power Kobe
His brother was a communist. He tried to unionize the faculty at Berkeley where most of them were communist.
You can show her and show he had a relationship. They spent like 30-35 minutes on her and it was about 28 minutes too long.
I’m well aware the focus of the movie, but those things happened. Again, it doesn’t have to be deeply touched but images of the Navajo being booted out, “we have to go into Congo to get the elements for this bomb,” and using images of Japanese people having their skin melt instead of the people at Los Alamos would have been a clearer acknowledgment of what happened.
Again, you keep overlook the fact that Oppenheimer snuck to see Jean DURING the Manhattan Project which brought into suspicion to who could of leaked to the Russians the plans to build the bomb.
THAT IS A VITAL PART OF THE FILM.
The brother LEFT the communist party before the Manhattan Project, Kitty LEFT the communist party well before meeting Oppenheimer. JEAN, however, NEVER LEFT THE PARTY and Oppenheimer was seeing her during the Manhattan Project. That whole relationship was very essential to the story.
Also, everything is purely through the eyes of Oppenheimer. He didn't see the Navajo people removed, and it'll be insulting to EXPLOIT the massacre of the Japanese people. It was more respectable to the Japanese survivors and people in general to describe the horrors and see how it visibly made Oppenheimer felt. And was it ENOUGH of Oppenheimer's own imagination of that type of devastation during the rally? The movie is about Oppenheimer and he evolved in becoming guilty in his own complicity of creating a weapon of mass destruction that'll forever change the world. It's all through his perspective. Why deviate to the focus of the film to BEAT IN THE HEAD of what we already know, especially in context of the film? That's border line exploitation of other people's suffering to show that on screen.
Why do you keep saying this like there can only be one communist at a time
But yea as someone who’s had a clearance, I can assure you you don’t know what you’re talking about. Your suitability (Google it) is based far more on honesty and transparency. His brother was declared. A known entity that Oppenheimer had no control of.
Thats less of a concern than a) an affair which right off top shows deception, and b) the fact he lied by omission about it.
In the context of a clearance the issue typically isn’t the act, its about the lying. Bc that makes you susceptible to blackmail and/or being under the thumb of a woman. See Robert Hansen
So again, the affair was an absolutely critical storyline both to the movie and irl
mastermind
Rest In Power Kobe
You realize everyone there had communist ties, right? Including his wife, lol. Including him because of his brother. His work colleagues. That was the point of the controversy around the Manhattan Project.Why do you keep saying this like there can only be one communist at a time
But yea as someone who’s had a clearance, I can assure you you don’t know what you’re talking about. Your suitability (Google it) is based far more on honesty and transparency. His brother was declared. A known entity that Oppenheimer had no control of.
Thats less of a concern than a) an affair which right off top shows deception, and b) the fact he lied by omission about it.
In the context of a clearance the issue typically isn’t the act, its about the lying. Bc that makes you susceptible to blackmail and/or being under the thumb of a woman. See Robert Hansen
So again, the affair was an absolutely critical storyline both to the movie and irl
The funny thing is the affair isn’t what did him in.
I don't know why you keep ignoring the fact that his brother and his wife left the communist party well before the Manhattan Project while Jean was still deeply part of the party, and he went to see her DURING the Manhattan Project.
The hearing prosecutor wanted to paint a picture of Oppenheimer could not be trusted. Seeing Jean DURING the project and then Strauss accusing Oppenheimer about the LEAK to the Soviets.
His affair with Jean. His own loosely favoritism for communism. Teller's betrayal testimony. And Oppenheimer's own testimony trying to justify why he was okay with the fission bomb but against the fusion bomb was what did him in even though it was a rigged hearing from the start. His affair with Jean was one of the many excuses that gave legitimacy for his clearance to be permanently revoked.
mastermind
Rest In Power Kobe
The fundamental issue here is you and @Braman dont understand what the Red Scare was. Anyone that had any links to Communism, Socialism and the Soviet Union got swept up and lost their careers. Even if it was 20-25 years prior, they got swept up. That’s why Matt Damon’s character said, “I don‘t think I’d have selected any of them under these new terms.”
The audacity of calling the affair ‘unnecessary’ then saying WE don’t understand something
You’re trying to move the goalpost. Why are you arguing the validity of his trial?!?! We know what the red scare is but we not talking about that. It happened already. It’s part of his story, warranted or not. The convo at hand is ‘was detailing the affair necessary’.
1. His brother and wife (once) being communist was already known when he was hired and given a clearance
2. The Chelvalier incident and his ongoing relationship with Tatlock after he was married was not.
2b. That shows deception. Those are lies. As I already pointed out—-AS SOMEONE WHOS GONE THRU THE CLEARANCE PROCESS —- it is the deception that matters, not the act.
3. Quoting from the actual judgement from his trial:
The AEC issued its decision and opinions on June 29, 1954, with a vote of 4 to 1 to revoke Oppenheimer's security clearance, citing "fundamental defects of character",…
Oppenheimer had been "less than candid in several instances" in his testimony.
The affair wa some of those “defects” and less than candid instances. It was critical
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NobodyReally
Superstar
It’s National Cinema Day and all movies are $4, so I’m finally going to see this.
Still not excited. I’m praying Nolan has learned how to write women, if there are even women in this.
Still not excited. I’m praying Nolan has learned how to write women, if there are even women in this.
Guvnor
Da Speculative Spectacle®
Lol you quoted the wrong person, it wasn't me but very interesting post.The audacity of calling the affair ‘unnecessary’ then saying WE don’t understand something
You’re trying to move the goalpost. Why are you arguing the validity of his trial?!?! We know what the red scare is but we not talking about that. It happened already. It’s part of his story, warranted or not. The convo at hand is ‘was detailing the affair necessary’.
1. His brother and wife (once) being communist was already known when he was hired and given a clearance
2. The Chelvalier incident and his ongoing relationship with Tatlock after he was married was not.
2b. That shows deception. Those are lies. As I already pointed out—-AS SOMEONE WHOS GONE THRU THE CLEARANCE PROCESS —- it is the deception that matters, not the act.
3. Quoting from the actual judgement from his trial:
The AEC issued its decision and opinions on June 29, 1954, with a vote of 4 to 1 to revoke Oppenheimer's security clearance, citing "fundamental defects of character",…
Oppenheimer had been "less than candid in several instances" in his testimony.
The affair wa some of those “defects” and less than candid instances. It was critical
NobodyReally
Superstar
Ugh I can’t do it. Even for $4. I have no interest in this movie and that’s just bizarre for me in terms of blockbusters. I think going to Germany this summer and getting an in depth perspective about WWII history from the victims point of view has soured my taste for any more historical perspectives from people in power. I want the movie about the Japanese citizens who got bombed. I don’t care about this guy and his struggle to kill or not to kill.
lol damn my bad. I quoted you from the other thread meant to also post it…
I highlight this bc it’s true and also relates back to the affair. The affair humanized him, showed him vulnerable when he broke down after she died. From that point on you got that feeling of uneasiness about him which carried over to his uneasiness about the bomb.
If it wasn’t for the affair he was a robot we wouldn’t have ‘felt’ his guilt the same way
Mister Terrific
It’s in the name
Wait. WAIT. Are you saying Japanese were the victims of World War 2?
