Obama Ties Broken Families To Gun Violence In Emotional Chicago Speech

[tru_m.a.c]

If structural pressures foster and perpetuate cultural norms, you eliminate or mitigate those structural pressures, especially when they're patently unjust and doable as is the case with the futile drug war, prison as a growth industry, and racially discriminatory justice system practices. Just saying we need to change culture implies that culture is an entity unto itsef in a vacuum and that's not reality.

You scream "black progress black progress" but seem to seek to blame the lack of it solely on black people, turning a blind eye to any of its impediments that lie beyond our control.

just focus on these two statements folks

this is just beautiful....if these 2 post were combined it would have to be coli post of the decade material

I'm looking back through this thread to compile some more gems

to both of y'all

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

I dont think anyone here will disagree about blacks being short changed in the academic system. Where I have an issue however, is we arent even trying to maximize our potential with the cards we've been dealt. Where I also take issue....is in districts where blacks are on the same playing field as whites...we still find ways to overwhelmingly be at the bottom of the pack. There are hundreds of schools in this country where whites and other races are graduating, and going to universities at much higher rates than african americans. Not even gonna use blacks here because foreign blacks arent nearly as close to the bottom of the barrel. We (all of us... dont care where you from now we all black) need to start controlling our own destinies becuase as all of you already know nobody else gives two shyts about us. It will be a cold day in hell before all these changes you all are talking about come into effect at the rate we are going now.

I am with this and have said this before. We do drop the ball quite a bit. But its not Obama's job to tell us to do that. Obama's job is to fix the systematic impediments and discrimatory elements that are beyond our control. I don't need to elect somebody to tell me to do the right thing, especially while he is either turning a blind eye or instrumental in the systematic elements working against me

 

[tru_m.a.c]

The account of low education as the reason for why Black people turn to drugs and eventually become part of the PIC is inconsistent with the idea that Black people consent to being part of the PIC, unless you're saying that Black people choose to get poor educations.

Some do w/o realizing the long term implications.

Some don't have access.

This is worthy of it's own thread.

you're absolutely right @Washington_Red, it does deserve it own thread, but while we're here its also the REASON why so many ppl are divided on the thought

1 group looks at the short term/present consequences of a criminal action

the other group looks at the long term CAUSES that set in motion a sequence of events that caused that short term/present consequence

the way to end this argument, is simply by asking all those in opposition of group two, to explain the founding elements of their nearest project/ghetto/hood

if they can't spit the history of redlining, public housing etc etc etc, then they're looking at centuries worth of struggle with the narrow point of view of their own lifetime

don't allow anybody to tell you about the struggle from poor to middle class to rich if they can't explain to you how one, just ONE, type of low incoming project housing complex came to be (even at the most bare basic form)

if they don't know the history, fukk em

 

[Consigliere]

you're absolutely right @Washington_Red, it does deserve it own thread, but while we're here its also the REASON why so many ppl are divided on the thought

1 group looks at the short term/present consequences of a criminal action

the other group looks at the long term CAUSES that set in motion a sequence of events that caused that short term/present consequence

the way to end this argument, is simply by asking all those in opposition of group two, to explain the founding elements of their nearest project/ghetto/hood

if they can't spit the history of redlining, public housing etc etc etc, then they're looking at centuries worth of struggle with the narrow point of view of their own lifetime

don't allow anybody to tell you about the struggle from poor to middle class to rich if they can't explain to you how one, just ONE, type of low incoming project housing complex came to be (even at the most bare basic form)

if they don't know the history, fukk em

If only our problems were as simple as 2 schools of thought.

How far back do you want to go in finding the causes of urban violence & stagnation? The war on drugs? Too much dependence on welfare? The get tough on crime campaign from the 60's? White flight? Jim Crow segregation?

I could go on an on with that.

At some point we have to address whats going on right now.

 

[tru_m.a.c]

If only our problems were as simple as 2 schools of thought.

How far back do you want to go in finding the causes of urban violence & stagnation? The war on drugs? Too much dependence on welfare? The get tough on crime campaign from the 60's? White flight? Jim Crow segregation?

I could go on an on with that.

At some point we have to address whats going on right now.

why do we have to create an artificial endpoint if there are more causes further back

you can address the issue now...as with any problem, but if there is a root cause thats left untouched, the problem will ALWAYS happen

are y'all trying to transform cities or families???

 

[Consigliere]

why do we have to create an artificial endpoint if there are more causes further back

you can address the issue now...as with any problem, but if there is a root cause thats left untouched, the problem will ALWAYS happen

are y'all trying to transform cities or families???

I dont know man. I know plenty of folks who habitually break the law

(no e-thuggin)

and dont feel the need to shoot anybody. Not saying they wont. What I am saying is that they take personal accountability for their actions. There's no excuse for murdering people.

Too many kids are scared to fight. And when they do somebody comes back with a gun.

Thats the real root cause of this.

 

[theworldismine13]

The account of low education as the reason for why Black people turn to drugs and eventually become part of the PIC is inconsistent with the idea that Black people consent to being part of the PIC, unless you're saying that Black people choose to get poor educations.

Yeah that is what I'm saying, black people have not developed a proper education system and a proper academic tradition, and until we do we will always get caught up in some "structural cause"

There is nothing wrong with dealing with structural causes, I'm all for that, but I disagree that that is the root cause, the root cause is lack of an academic tradition and an anti academic culture

 

[Darts]

The level of dedication needed to end the War on Drugs/Prison Industrial Complex would take an entire term or two. Currently these dudes can't even agree on a budget or simple universal shyt like infrastructure...


or is this the one "lip service" some y'all would be satisfied that Obama gives?

 

[Dusty Bake Activate]

The level of dedication needed to end the War on Drugs/Prison Industrial Complex would take an entire term or two. Currently these dudes can't even agree on a budget or simple universal shyt like infrastructure...


or is the one "lip service" some y'all would be satisfied that Obama gives?

I don't expect him to end it completely during his term, but somebody has to get the ball rolling. I am pragmatic and realistic about the political process so I know there was no way the first black President would even talk about the PIC and ending the drug war in his first term with re-election looming.

If he doesn't start to lead on this issue during his 2nd term, which he probably won't that would be completely shameful and unacceptable. It's decades overdue.

 

[Darts]

I don't expect him to end it completely during his term, but somebody has to get the ball rolling. I am pragmatic and realistic about the political process so I know there was no way the first black President would even talk about the PIC and ending the drug war in his first term with re-election looming.

If he doesn't start to lead on this issue during his 2nd term, which he probably won't that would be completely shameful and unacceptable. It's decades overdue.

I honestly don't think Obama or any other black president can talk about these issues and get major traction (the race issue would be too distracting and might provoke a major backlash). This is one of those "Nixon goes to China" things where it would be more potent if it came from a charismatic white president. It also has to take a level of dedication that is practically a major part of that president's agenda, complete with years worth of media propaganda and coverage....u know, how Reagan and 'em got this whole War on Drugs shyt started.


The best one can hope for with Obama is for him to frame it in a popular way in the twilight of his presidency to set up the issue for his successors to run on.

 

[Born2BKing]

Wait, so Obama didn't go to Chicago and end all gun violence? fukk him. He ain't shyt.

 

[IGSaint12]

Yeah that is what I'm saying, black people have not developed a proper education system and a proper academic tradition, and until we do we will always get caught up in some "structural cause"

There is nothing wrong with dealing with structural causes, I'm all for that, but I disagree that that is the root cause, the root cause is lack of an academic tradition and an anti academic culture

Exactly, let's be honest here. There is none to very little academic culture in the black community and we need that to progress most of all. Tackling drug enforcement and the prison industrial complex is only 25% of the problem.

 

[newarkhiphop]

Yeah that is what I'm saying, black people have not developed a proper education system and a proper academic tradition, and until we do we will always get caught up in some "structural cause"

There is nothing wrong with dealing with structural causes, I'm all for that, but I disagree that that is the root cause, the root cause is lack of an academic tradition and an anti academic culture

Am play ball with you for a while.


How does one measure how much academic culture or tradition X community has?

 

[theworldismine13]

Am play ball with you for a while.


How does one measure how much academic culture or tradition X community has?

i have no idea how you measure it in an objective way, my point comes from observations that ive made and from things that i have experienced and my reading of history

overall the main determinant of the prosperity of a community or nation is the level of education its not the level of racism or the level of persecution, thats where an academic tradition comes in

 

[newarkhiphop]

i have no idea how you measure it in an objective way, my point comes from observations that ive made and from things that i have experienced and my reading of history

overall the main determinant of the prosperity of a community or nation is the level of education its not the level of racism or the level of persecution, thats where an academic tradition comes in

Ok but how does a high level of education equate to community prospering when they do face the very real issues of institutionalized racism and economic oppression ?

Not saying that a academic tradition is not important it is neither, its very important.