Quote me with an answer, not another question. Its your opinion so defend it.
No one was more dominant than Peak Shaq
- Thread starter 2legit
- Start date
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C L O N E*0690//////
bron definitely has a case
in the most athletic era of the league he was often the heaviest the strongest & fastest player on the court all at once
he never really developed the habit of constantly abusing defenders in the paint/post but he was basically running the #1 & playing on the perimeter
all the attributes are there though physically
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in the most athletic era of the league he was often the heaviest the strongest & fastest player on the court all at once
he never really developed the habit of constantly abusing defenders in the paint/post but he was basically running the #1 & playing on the perimeter
all the attributes are there though physically
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ISO
Pass me the rock nikka
LeBron was dominating the paint with 75% FG at the rim on close to 600 attempts with seasons with 150+ dunks and league leader in three point plays.
He’s the most dominant slasher in league history.
He also statistically outproduced and had a positive win loss record against pretty much all his peers on the wing.
ISO
Pass me the rock nikka
Yeah nobody ever brings this up.Yes Shaq was unstoppable in his prime, but let’s not forget the competition he was playing against at that time
Austin Croshere
Todd Maccullouh
Matt Geiger
Scot Pollard
Chris Dudley
When he played against real competion like Duncan he looked mortal. Even old ass Sabonis and Vlade gave him problems.
Yeah he was dominant but he was dominating plumbers.
Funny there was just a post that said throughout his playoff appearances 24 of Wilt’s 29 opponents at the 5 were Hall of Fame or All-Star caliber bigs.
Yet Wilt is the one that gets the plumbers and mechanics argument.
murksiderock
Superstar
And it's annoying too, dudes really piss me off with this. At bare minimum, if you're being really selective, Shaq had a 9-year prime, that's healthy ass longevity...
As you mentioned, at the top end, one could argue Shaq had a prime as long as, or up to, 13 years, that's almost a decade and a half. This thread is evidence enough that his prime is underrated and its annoying...
My main issues with the labeling of Shaq as "most dominant ever", and this is something I argued going back about 13 years now, are:
•at his peak he could gave strong stretches but he was never a GREAT defensive player, which is a blemish for a center, and for a guy of his size. It certainly isn't like he wasn't capable and it points directly to his work ethic to be the absolute best version of himself--->he left some "ceiling" on the table;
•obviously Shaq was eating in the mid-90s but the 90s is generally regarded as the golden age of centers, but the era people really remember him for is championship era Shaq once all the Golden Age centers were declining and on their way out the sport. The era he was tagged as most dominant ever was the era of almost no real competitive threats at his position---->for the record this is something I look at with Mike too. This league wasn't abundant of elite players at his position and when measuring dominance, particularly in bygone eras of less switchability, this matters...
It isn't a big deal to me, because ultimately you can only play whose in front of you, but it isn't nothing, either;
•the most quality "center" of his "most dominant ever" stretch was Duncan and while Shaq peaked higher, he certainly didn't dominate their h2h matchups. And generally speaking he had the better team in this stretch--->again it isn't everything to me but it ain't nothing, either...
All that said, while I definitely don't think he's "most dominant ever" and never have, he had anywhere from a 9 to 13 year prime, with a super high peak, and I don't shyt on that. Easily Top 10 ever, likely a Top 5 peak or close enough to it...
Boonapalist
Superstar
I think some of the reasons people underrate Shaq’s longevity or prime before 00. Is after 95 he couldn’t stay healthy until the lockout season in 99. Offensively when he played he had the numbers and impact, but he didn’t play enough. The league was supposed to be his but Jordan and Malone were the ones winning MVPs and making the finals. So he didn’t have the individual nor team success he was expected to have. And he kept getting swept out of the playoffs.
I don’t even need to address this because it’s not an answer to my question I asked to the person I quoted.
But since you’re bringing up competition at the position like other people are doing in here with Jordan, Shaq and Wilt, I’ll repeat the question.
What prominent wings was Lebron dominating since you want to use that angle?
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threattonature
Veteran
My problem with Lebron's finals streak is that the East completely lacked other superstars during that run. The only ones were Wade who was stuck in a rebuild, Carmelo who got too impatient and caused the Knicks to trade most of their talent, and then Rose until he got injured. He still gets major props for the consistency of staying healthy each year and still showing up to dominate but I think if you put damn near any of the top 20 players in that conference they would dominate in a similar way. If he won more consistently in the finals like Jordan did then it would kill that complaint.
threattonature
Veteran
That was a different NBA where the prevailing mindset was that you had to handle high school players with kid gloves. They said in practice Kobe was regularly giving a great defender in Eddie Jones that work. Add in Kobe's selfishness and oversized ego and the Lakers wanted to keep his ego in check. So basically talent wise Kobe was ready but since he went to a talented veteran team he wasn't let loose like a typical rookie would be.
threattonature
Veteran
As far as most physically dominant then it's Shaq.
As far as just most dominant overall it's MJ to me. He had a whole league completely shook and in awe of him. Constantly came through when it mattered. He was consistently great on both sides of the floor. Obviously winning 6 of 7 seasons that he played. He had no weakness. And even when his team was facing adversity he just stepped it up bigger to make up the slack. And he lead through dictatorship. I just remember the scene on The Last Dance of a bunch of different teammates saying he was an a$$hole but also how he had them scared of coming up short.
As far as just most dominant overall it's MJ to me. He had a whole league completely shook and in awe of him. Constantly came through when it mattered. He was consistently great on both sides of the floor. Obviously winning 6 of 7 seasons that he played. He had no weakness. And even when his team was facing adversity he just stepped it up bigger to make up the slack. And he lead through dictatorship. I just remember the scene on The Last Dance of a bunch of different teammates saying he was an a$$hole but also how he had them scared of coming up short.
H. Selassie
Black Royalty
I don't think MDE is specific to any era though, that's about his physical traits and how he used them. That's an any given night, or most given nights, basis.
Shaq didn't have the defensive impact of most of his peers in the Center pantheon but I rate him as good, just not great, particularly for his era. He was a good shot blocker and was an overall rim deterrent, his Opponent FG% was average but the attempts were low, meaning players weren't trying what was then the most valued shot in basketball because they didn't want to contend with his presence. The P&R stuff would cook him today because everyone makes 3s now, but 20 years ago there weren't that many stretch 4s let alone 5s to shoot him off the court.
The person you originally quoted was not questioning the competition at Jordan or Shaq's position though. You made that "angle" up for a reason.
He specifically said Jordan not “crushing his opponents” when the conversation had then focused on direct competition. Since he denied that of Jordan but mentioned Lebron in a previous post, he believes Lebron to have dominated his competition and not Jordan. It is 100% valid for the query based on his own comments, to name these star wings that Lebron dominated.
Dude don’t need you or anyone to speak for him. He can defend his own opinion. The nikka I quoted knows what im questioning. I don’t have to quote everything he’s said and dapped in here.
He said "with physicality". You're selectively reading for a reason.He specifically said Jordan not “crushing his opponents” when the conversation had then focused on direct competition. Since he denied that of Jordan but mentioned Lebron in a previous post, he believes Lebron to have dominated his competition and not Jordan. It is 100% valid for the query based on his own comments, to name these star wings that Lebron dominated.
Dude don’t need you or anyone to speak for him. He can defend his own opinion. The nikka I quoted knows what im questioning. I don’t have to quote everything he’s said and dapped in here.
I don't really care what you think I can or should defend.