Morocco just made history at the World Cup - do you consider them as Africans or Arab?

[3rdWorld]

Did you really just try to refute a scientific study with random people's results from fukking 23andme?


23andme is a half-assed corporate project that doesn't go nearly as deep as any study, and they are only showing you where your family is from, not what the deeper ancestry of that region is. 23andme tells people they're English even though the native people of England were wiped over over 2000 years ago and it was repopulated with Celts and Germanics from central Europe. "Anglo-Saxon" is literally the name of two Germanic tribes. Using 23andme to refute a scientific study is like using a half-assed wikipedia page to refute the actual sources the wikipedia page was based on.

When 23andme tells someone they're Ethiopian all they're telling them is that their people group primarily comes from Ethiopia. Doesn't say jack shyt about where that people group originated from or what other groups they're descended from.








That's not just "genetic similarities" though, that's actual ancient genetic subpopulations so Ethiopians definitely are products of a mix according to that study's results.

Now like I said earlier in the thread, I think the Arab subpopulation originated in Africa, so at least in that you're partly right. But they were separate from the other groups. If you look at the study, tens of thousands of years ago the East African and Omotic groups in East Africa split, then late the Arab and North African groups split off of the Omotic group, then the Omotic group further mixed with the Arab group and the East African group further mixed with the North African group before all four groups stabilized. Then later, AFTER that, the more "pure" Arabs migrated north and settled across the Middle East (today, the most pure Arabian group is Qatar), whereas the most "pure" Northern African group migrated west and settled across north Africa (today, the most pure north African group is Tunisia). The most pure "East African" group is Dinka-Nuer, which is 80% East African descended with minor admixtures from west Africa and central Africa. The most pure "Omotic" group are the Ari people of Ethiopia, who are 90% Omotic with very minor East African and Arab admixture. Most Ethiopians are a mix of all of those without even coming close to 50% of any one group.


This is what Ari people look like, 80% Omotic DNA:

Here are what Dinka-Nuer people look like, 90% East African DNA:

Here are what Qatari people look like, 80% Arabian NDA:

And then you have Tigray people of Ethiopia, which are about 40% Arabian, 30% East African, 20% Omotic, and 10% North African:

Most folk get confused because, due to the metric that White Europeans imposed, everything to them is about skin color. But skin color is only determined by a handful of genes, and a couple genes for dark color can override others. But in reality genetics is far more complicated than "what color are you".

The only metric they employed was that anything of historical greatness anywhere in the world has to automatically be prescribed to the White man.

The reason Europeans were so quick to declare Ethiopians and Egyptians as European was because of the cultural significance of major religions being developed there. They worship Christianity and Jeduism, which they did not create themselves.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

@Rhakim how do the vast majorty of Morrocans identify? MENA or African?

How would I know, I've never done a poll. I'm guessing both/and, not either/or. Why would North African identification and African identification be two separate things anyway?

If you talk to Coptic Egyptians, most of them hate being called Arabs and will refuse to identify with them, but aren't bothered by "Middle Eastern" as much and will happily identify as North African. That's more for political reasons than anything else. And Coptic Egyptians have far more Arabian genetics and Arabian cultural connection than Moroccans do. A lot of the drama about identification comes from whether or not you're Muslim more than anything else.

 

[Top Left]

Did you really just try to refute a scientific study with random people's results from fukking 23andme?


23andme is a half-assed corporate project that doesn't go nearly as deep as any study, and they are only showing you where your family is from, not what the deeper ancestry of that region is. 23andme tells people they're English even though the native people of England were wiped over over 2000 years ago and it was repopulated with Celts and Germanics from central Europe. "Anglo-Saxon" is literally the name of two Germanic tribes. Using 23andme to refute a scientific study is like using a half-assed wikipedia page to refute the actual sources the wikipedia page was based on.

When 23andme tells someone they're Ethiopian all they're telling them is that their people group primarily comes from Ethiopia. Doesn't say jack shyt about where that people group originated from or what other groups they're descended from.








That's not just "genetic similarities" though, that's actual ancient genetic subpopulations so Ethiopians definitely are products of a mix according to that study's results.

Now like I said earlier in the thread, I think the Arab subpopulation originated in Africa, so at least in that you're partly right. But they were separate from the other groups. If you look at the study, tens of thousands of years ago the East African and Omotic groups in East Africa split, then late the Arab and North African groups split off of the Omotic group, then the Omotic group further mixed with the Arab group and the East African group further mixed with the North African group before all four groups stabilized. Then later, AFTER that, the more "pure" Arabs migrated north and settled across the Middle East (today, the most pure Arabian group is Qatar), whereas the most "pure" Northern African group migrated west and settled across north Africa (today, the most pure north African group is Tunisia). The most pure "East African" group is Dinka-Nuer, which is 80% East African descended with minor admixtures from west Africa and central Africa. The most pure "Omotic" group are the Ari people of Ethiopia, who are 90% Omotic with very minor East African and Arab admixture. Most Ethiopians are a mix of all of those without even coming close to 50% of any one group.


This is what Ari people look like, 80% Omotic DNA:

Here are what Dinka-Nuer people look like, 90% East African DNA:

Here are what Qatari people look like, 80% Arabian NDA:

And her are Tigray people of Ethiopia, which are about 40% Arabian, 30% East African, 20% Omotic, and 10% North African:

Most folk get confused because, due to the metric that White Europeans imposed, everything to them is about skin color. But skin color is only determined by a handful of genes, and a couple genes for dark color can override others. But in reality genetics is far more complicated than "what color are you".

It's super interesting stuff, I'm still learning. But as a Somali, i'll never acknowledge or accept that Somalis come from arabs, I've also read that the somali language is also older than arabic, i'll send sources over once i get 'em. Either way one thing i do know for sure is that the African continent has largest amount of human genetic diversity and the origin of humanity, and that my people (somalis) have been around for a very long time and predate the modern arabs. Just because of our faith and different features people assume we're arabs, or are products of them.

 

[Zime]

Did you really just try to refute a scientific study with random people's results from 23andme?


23andme is a half-assed corporate project that doesn't go nearly as deep as any study, and they are only showing you where your family is from, not what the deeper ancestry of that region is. 23andme tells people they're English even though the native people of England were wiped over over 2000 years ago and it was repopulated with Celts and Germanics from central Europe. "Anglo-Saxon" is literally the name of two Germanic tribes. Using 23andme to refute a scientific study is like using a half-assed wikipedia page to refute the actual sources the wikipedia page was based on.

When 23andme tells someone they're Ethiopian all they're telling them is that their people group primarily comes from Ethiopia. Doesn't say jack shyt about where that people group originated from or what other groups they're descended from.








That's not just "genetic similarities" though, that's actual ancient genetic subpopulations so Ethiopians definitely are products of a mix according to that study's results.

Now like I said earlier in the thread, I think the Arab subpopulation originated in Africa, so at least in that you're partly right. But they were separate from the other groups. If you look at the study, tens of thousands of years ago the East African and Omotic groups in East Africa split, then late the Arab and North African groups split off of the Omotic group, then the Omotic group further mixed with the Arab group and the East African group further mixed with the North African group before all four groups stabilized. Then later, AFTER that, the more "pure" Arabs migrated north and settled across the Middle East (today, the most pure "Arabian" group is Qatar), whereas the North Africans migrated west and settled across north Africa (today, the most pure "North African" group is Tunisia). The most pure "East African" group is Dinka-Nuer in Sudan, which is 80% East African descended with minor admixtures from west Africa and central Africa. The most pure "Omotic" group are the Ari people of Ethiopia, who are 90% Omotic with very minor East African and Arab admixture. Most Ethiopians are a mix of all of those without even coming close to 50% of any one group.


This is what Ari people look like, 80% Omotic DNA:

Here are what Dinka-Nuer people look like, 90% East African DNA:

Here are what Qatari people look like, 80% Arabian NDA:

And then you have Tigray people of Ethiopia, which are about 40% Arabian, 30% East African, 20% Omotic, and 10% North African:

Most folk get confused because, due to the metric that White Europeans imposed, everything to them is about skin color. But skin color is only determined by a handful of genes, and a couple genes for dark color can override others. But in reality genetics is far more complicated than "what color are you".

You are full of shyt it's hilarious. Even the ones in the Horn are genetically different from each other. North Africans are at least 30 - 50% ME.

I'm not gonna respond any further since you clearly have some weird bias.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

I've seen North African 23andme results some of them have Iberian, Arab and even Jewish

I should also point out, just saying "North African" by itself is meaningless.




Egyptians, Liberians, and Algerians are about 20-30% Arabian DNA, 10-30% West Asian DNA, 10-20% North African DNA, 5-15% Southern European DNA, and then some smaller others

Whereas Tunisians are about 80% North African DNA with the rest mostly mixed Southern European and West Asian and very little Arabian DNA.

North Moroccans are something like 35% West Asian, 30% European, 10% Arabian, and the rest North African and some other mix.

Whereas Moroccan Jews are over 50% North African and the rest a mix of everything else including Arabian.

But most regular Moroccans and South Moroccans are like 60% North African with the rest a complete admixture of west african, east african, omotic, west asian, and southern european, and have very little arabian.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

You are full of shyt it's hilarious. Even the ones in the Horn are genetically different from each other.

How am I "full of shyt" when I acknowledged there were a ton of different groups in the area and that's why I named specific tribes? You aren't even saying what I was wrong about, I never said there aren't major differences.

North Africans are at least 30 - 50% ME.

Based on what other than your gut feeling?

What does "30-50% ME" even mean? Middle Eastern isn't a genetic background and North Africans differ dramatically in their Arabian and West Asian background depending on region, so what are you saying?

I'm not gonna respond any further since you clearly have some weird bias.

I'm posting exact charts and links from one of the most comprehensive genetic studies on the issue, and that shows I have some sort of weird bias? Exact how so?

You've posted literally no evidence whatsoever other than your own personal opinion.

 

[KamikazePilot]

This might be the dumbest thread I’ve seen in so long when the fukk did African=Black Are y’all stupid Is Morocco not on the African continent or what?

This is why I’m glad I identify with being American a bunch of nikkas who’ve never been to Africa trying to dictate what the hell going on over there pathetic.

You militant nikkas are fake, uneducated and have identity crisis

 

[3rdWorld]

Better to ask Moroccan's if they see themselves Africans or Arabs

Oh, and dont forget, Morocco once applied for EU membership

They lost a lot of respect in Africa for that one..

 

[Professor Emeritus]

Before I was trying to ballpark %'s from the charts where everything is squished up and hard to read, just realized there are exact #'s in a table in the supplemental material:

South Moroccan: 53% North African, 28% West/Central/East African, 11% Southern European, and 10% Arabian
Moroccan: 50% North African, 18% West/Central/East African, 13% Southern European, 14% Arabian, and 5% West Asian
North Moroccan: 51% North African, 18% Southern European, 13% Arabian, 8% West/Central/East African and 7% West Asian



So Moroccans in general are 10-15% Arabian.

Meanwhile, every Ethiopian ethnic group in the study was 25-40% Arabian.

 

[Koba St]

So not rooting for non-black African countries is dumb? Bet.

He’s a fukking moron. Best ignored

 

[Cape Town JHB]

There's not a single Zulu person celebrating those berbers, but when Ghana almost reached the semis all the black people were eastatic.

Theese are berbers not real Africans.

 

[mykey]

There's not a single Zulu person celebrating those berbers, but when Ghana almost reached the semis all the black people were eastatic.

Theese are berbers not real Africans.

There's a person in this very thread claiming Mzansi is a "non-black" country.


Americans are dumb as fcuk.

 

[Koba St]

There's not a single Zulu person celebrating those berbers, but when Ghana almost reached the semis all the black people were eastatic.

Theese are berbers not real Africans.

 

[ChatGPT-5]

its fukking weird how people can't grasp the concept. its almost like they are indoctrinated.

does a fukking filipino look korean? yet they are both asian. does a swedish person look sicilian? yet they are both european. do berbers, whom are african, look subsaharan? yet with the former they are not confused, but instantly become confused with the latter? how sway?

Before I was trying to ballpark %'s from the charts where everything is squished up and hard to read, just realized there are exact #'s in a table in the supplemental material:

South Moroccan: 53% North African, 28% West/Central/East African, 11% Southern European, and 10% Arabian
Moroccan: 50% North African, 18% West/Central/East African, 13% Southern European, 14% Arabian, and 5% West Asian
North Moroccan: 51% North African, 18% Southern European, 13% Arabian, 8% West/Central/East African and 7% West Asian



So Moroccans in general are 10-15% Arabian.

Meanwhile, every Ethiopian ethnic group in the study was 25-40% Arabian.

 

[Koba St]

its fukking weird how people can't grasp the concept. its almost like they are indoctrinated.

does a fukking filipino look korean? yet they are both asian. does a swedish person look sicilian? yet they are both european. do berbers, whom are african, look subsaharan? yet with the former they are not confused, but instantly become confused with the latter? how sway?

Why do you people keep focusing on African. Theyre are African and we all accept that because they reside in the African continent and represent Africa in the world cup. They can call themselves african But they’re not black African which is what matters here.