MC Hammer is the hero we didn't deserve.

[BmoreGorilla]

Gangsta Rap and Bass Music overtook NJS when it came to Party Music though, had nothing to do with substance. NJS was pretty much an NY sound that had national appeal. When NJS died other regions began becoming more influential.

A lot of it had to do with substance. Why you think at the end of that era groups were going out their way to show their singing skills? There was a return to real R&B. MJB also crushed the buildings

 

[Apollo Creed]

A lot of it had to do with substance. Why you think at the end of that era groups were going out their way to show their singing skills? There was a return to real R&B. MJB also crushed the buildings

NJS wasn't R&B or Rap, it was more so the sonic vehicle one could use to accomplish either/both. Like NO Bounce, Bass Music or Go Go for example, those were the vehicles people used to sing or rap over the style of production.

Heavy D was a Rapper and Guy was a singing group yet both made NJS.

NJS died because it was replaced by Gangsta Rap and Bass music when it came to party music.

 

[David_TheMan]

I’ll agree that Guy made it a thing but Keith Sweat dropped before Guy did. What made NJS what it was was the fact that it was production that could be both rapped and sung over.

Nobody was rhyming over Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis production

Keith Sweat's work with Riley didn't happen until after Guy if I remember correctly.
NJS had nothing to do with being able to be rapped over, it was mainly putting hard rhythm section and drumming in R&B songs.
Which is why you can hear NJS even before Riley in Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis with Janet in Control, that came out in what 85 - 86.
They refined their process and then put out major NJS music with Janet in Rhythm Nation, New Edition (If it isn't love is definition of new jack) Rub you the right (Johhny Gill), Ralph Tresvant Sensitivity, hell you can even hear it in Scream with MJ and Janet.
You had BBD doing it with poison and do me baby
Troop Spread my Wings is NJS
Color Me Badd I wanna sex you up is NJS

So the notion that you can rap over it is miscategorizing what NJS was IMHO

 

[BmoreGorilla]

Title Album details Peak chart positions Sales Certifications
US
[3] US
R&B
[3] AUS
[8] GER
[9] IRL
[10] NZ
[11] UK
[12]
Straight Outta Compton

• Released: August 8, 1988
• Label: Ruthless, Priority
• Formats: CD, LP, CS

4 9 8 36 7 43 35

• US: 3,500,000[4]

• RIAA: 3× Platinum[13]
• BPI: Platinum[14]

nikkaz4Life

• Released: May 28, 1991
• Label: Ruthless, Priority
• Formats: CD, LP, CS

1 2 — — — — 25

• US: 2,300,000[4]

• RIAA: 2× Platinum[13]

It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back

• Released: June 28, 1988 (US)[19]
• Label: Def Jam
• Formats: CD, CS, LP

42 1 — 93 — 40 — — — 8

• US: 1,300,000[20]

• RIAA: Platinum[2]
• BPI: Gold[21]

Fear of a Black Planet

• Released: April 10, 1990 (US)[22]
• Label: Def Jam
• Formats: CD, CS, LP

10 3 30 15 30 17 15 24 19 4

• US: 1,300,000[20]

• RIAA: Platinum[2]
• BPI: Gold[21]
• MC: Gold[23]

Apocalypse 91... The Enemy Strikes Black

• Released: October 1, 1991 (US)[24]
• Label: Def Jam
• Formats: CD, CS, LP

4 1 11 12 38 62 5 36 33 8

• US: 1,000,000[20]

• RIAA: Platinum[2]
• BPI: Silver[21]
• MC: Gold[23]

From 88 to 91 NWA outsold PE and out charted them.

I stand corrected but NWA was considered “conscious” when they dropped as well. Ok PE was the second biggest group. Either way both groups were a huge contrast to NJS which was my point

 

[The Intergalactic Koala]

Hammer put on the squad and one of the first to ball and go broke rapper wise, but this always comes to my mind thinking about Hammer

 

[David_TheMan]

NJS wasn't R&B or Rap, it was more so the sonic vehicle one could use to accomplish either/both. Like NO Bounce, Bass Music or Go Go for example, those were the vehicles people used to sing or rap over the style of production.

Heavy D was a Rapper and Guy was a singing group yet both made NJS.

NJS died because it was replaced by Gangsta Rap and Bass music when it came to party music.

I think you nailed it.
As a choice for dance music NJS was replaced by miami bass and more crunk music, which let the singers of NJS nothing to do but fall back on "neo soul"

 

[BmoreGorilla]

History[edit]
A collaboration between former members of Minneapolis music group The Time, Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis, and Janet Jackson originated the style that came to be known as new jack swing with Jackson's third studio album, Control (1986). Jam and Lewis used similar influences with hip-hop influenced drums with smoother R&B stylings in the production. Though Jackson had previously been popular in R&B music, Control established her crossover appeal in the popular music market. Musicologist Richard J. Ripani PhD, author of The New Blue Music: Changes in Rhythm & Blues, 1950–1999 (2006), observed that the album was one of the first successful records to influence the rise of new jack swing by creating a fusion of R&B, rap, funk, disco and synthesized percussion.[5] The new jack swing sound is particularly evident in the second single, "Nasty".[6] The success of Control, according to Ripani, bridged the gap between R&B and rap music.[5] He asserts that "since Jackson's album was released in 1986 and was hugely successful, it is not unreasonable to assume that it had at least some impact on the new jack swing creations of Teddy Riley."[5] Mantronix's early records in the mid-1980s also had new jack elements.[7]

The term "new jack swing" was coined in an October 18, 1987 Village Voice profile of Teddy Riley by Barry Michael Cooper.[8] "New Jack" was a slang term (meaning ~'Johnny-come-lately'[9]) used in a song by Grandmaster Caz of the Cold Crush Brothers, and "swing" was intended by Cooper to draw an "analogy between the music played at the speakeasies of F. Scott Fitzgerald's time to the crackhouses of Teddy Riley's time."[10]Teddy Riley's original name for the music was 'sophisticated bubblegun music'.*

The term "new jack swing" describes the sound produced and engineered by R&B/hip hop artist and producer Teddy Riley. Riley is an American R&B and hip hop singer-songwriter, musician and record producer. He led the band Guy in the late 1980s and Blackstreet in the 1990s. Riley said, "I define the term [new jack swing] as a new kid on the block who's swinging it."[11] The defining feature of Riley's music was the introduction of swingbeats, "a rhythmic pattern using offbeat accented 16th note triplets."

Music website VH1.com notes that while in the 2000s, "hip-hop and R&B are kissing cousins," in the early 1980s, "the two genres were seldom mentioned in the same breath." However, in the late 1980s, "during the era of high-top fades, and parachute pants, producer Teddy Riley and label boss Andre Harrell successfully fused and marketed the two sounds in a sexy, exclamatory music that critics termed new jack swing. It sparked a revolution." Riley stated that before new jack swing, "Rappers and singers didn't want anything to do with one another," because "Singers were soft, rappers were street." Riley's new style blended "sweet melody and big beats."[12] The sensibilities of Riley's fusion of the styles would forever change pop music/hip-hop music pairing and was further popularized with Bad Boy's dominance of the late '90s through much of the same techniques. Riley, a 19-year-old kid from Harlem, quickly became an A-list producer and commanded big fees to add his sound to major artist projects. The aesthetic of the culture also spread to mainstream white audiences through popular groups such as New Kids on the Block.

All this does it prove my point that NJS is Teddy Riley style production. He came up with the term. I don’t consider Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis NJS but that’s just me

 

[Apollo Creed]

I stand corrected but NWA was considered “conscious” when they dropped as well. Ok PE was the second biggest group. Either way both groups were a huge contrast to NJS which was my point

Nah if anything PE was "conscious" or more so Pro Black,while NWA was more so "Reality Rap" which later was coined Gangsta Rap.

All music can have elements of "consciousness" in it but PE Was making music telling black people why they are in their condition and how they can get out of their conditions.

NWA made music more say saying I'm a product of my environment and welcome to a day in my life. This is what easy for politicians to say to say it was obscene because they didn't "get it" and NWA was not framing their songs as "I'm teaching you a lesson on the hood" but more so they were saying "it is what it is and I'm a product of this life".

 

[BmoreGorilla]

I think you nailed it.
As a choice for dance music NJS was replaced by miami bass and more crunk music, which let the singers of NJS nothing to do but fall back on "neo soul"

I think people’s taste had changed too. Look how big Kid N Play was at one point but after 91 it was a wrap for then

 

[Apollo Creed]

I think people’s taste had changed too. Look how big Kid N Play was at one point but after 91 it was a wrap for then

Kid and Play were puppets though. They moved on to what ever the record label wanted them to do. They went from Hippity Hop, to Go go, to NJS, to making music like 2 Live Crew (albeit watered down) when House Party 3 came out lol.

 

[BmoreGorilla]

Nah if anything PE was "conscious" or more so Pro Black,while NWA was more so "Reality Rap" which later was coined Gangsta Rap.

All music can have elements of "consciousness" in it but PE Was making music telling black people why they are in their condition and how they can get out of their conditions.

NWA made music more say saying I'm a product of my environment and welcome to a day in my life. This is what easy for politicians to say to say it was obscene because they didn't "get it" and NWA was not framing their songs as "I'm teaching you a lesson on the hood" but more so they were saying "it is what it is and I'm a product of this life".

NWA was the west coast answer to PE. But of course the west coast culture is a bit different so that gangsta element snuck in. There’s a reason Cube sought them out when he left NWA. He fit right in

 

[BmoreGorilla]

Kid and Play were puppets though. They moved on to what ever the record label wanted them to do. They went from Hippity Hop, to Go go, to NJS, to making music like 2 Live Crew (albeit watered down) when House Party 3 came out lol.

Basically just like MC Hammer

 

[David_TheMan]

All this does it prove my point that NJS is Teddy Riley style production. He came up with the term. I don’t consider Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis NJS but that’s just me

Teddy didn't come up with it. Barry Michael Cooper coined the term.

New jack swing - Wikipedia
The term "new jack swing" was coined in an October 18, 1987 Village Voice profile of Teddy Riley by Barry Michael Cooper.[8] "New Jack" was a slang term (meaning ~'Johnny-come-lately'[9]) used in a song by Grandmaster Caz of the Cold Crush Brothers, and "swing" was intended by Cooper to draw an "analogy between the music played at the speakeasies of F. Scott Fitzgerald's time to the crackhouses of Teddy Riley's time."[10]Teddy Riley's original name for the music was 'sophisticated bubblegun music'.*

But I got you, not trying to be over pedantic, but its and interesting subject to me, since its the music of my childhood.

 

[Apollo Creed]

NWA was the west coast answer to PE. But of course the west coast culture is a bit different so that gangsta element snuck in. There’s a reason Cube sought them out when he left NWA. He fit right in

I believe Cube got with PE because his cousin (dude who played Stanley in Friday) put him on to the NOI teachings and introduced them.

 

[WaveCapsByOscorp™]

I never understood the hate for him. I mean, that kfc commercial, yeah. But man put people on. That’s the definition of building. It’s unfortunate his people were how they were though. Makes it harder for him in the long run