MC Hammer is the hero we didn't deserve.

David_TheMan

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by then Jodeci were also considered the "gangstas of R&B" too. Like I Said before NJS died because everyone wanted to be "Gangsta". Even the Afro Centric movement died because of it.
Never remember Jodeci being the "gangstas" of R&B.
I thought it was a deliberate attempt to market them counter Boyz 2 Men.
Boyz 2 Men were wholesome and Jodeci were a bit rougher around the edges, but Jodeci never sung about being street or hard or anything like that.
As for why NJS died, I don't know if it was gangsta, because again it isn't like people went hardcore after NJS, if anything in R&B ballads acame back as well as solid harmonizations or vocals, with Diary and II dominating as well as R. Kelly himself leaving the New Jack style from Born in the 90s to 12 play solid R&B.

They initially didn't go harder IMO
 

Apollo Creed

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Never remember Jodeci being the "gangstas" of R&B.
I thought it was a deliberate attempt to market them counter Boyz 2 Men.
Boyz 2 Men were wholesome and Jodeci were a bit rougher around the edges, but Jodeci never sung about being street or hard or anything like that.
As for why NJS died, I don't know if it was gangsta, because again it isn't like people went hardcore after NJS, if anything in R&B ballads acame back as well as solid harmonizations or vocals, with Diary and II dominating as well as R. Kelly himself leaving the New Jack style from Born in the 90s to 12 play solid R&B.

They initially didn't go harder IMO

"Gangsta" may be the wrong word but Jodeci were seen as the Bad Boys of R&B by the 2nd album, and then of course they aligned themselves with Death Row for the 3rd album and the rest is history.
 

BmoreGorilla

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They wre from the Prince camp but the two made new jack swing just like Teddy.
rhythm nation was a njs album. Listen to Rhythm nation and Love will never do without you. Hell even Micheal got in on njs in getting Riley to help him make Remember the time.

Teddy Riley started out doing R&B, he did "just got paid" , keith sweat's I want it and and Bobby Brown's my perrogative.
You have your timeline mixed up.
Teddy Riley produced The Show for Slick Rick and Doug E Fresh in 85. His first R&B production was Keith Sweat’s Make It Last Forever album in 87. This was before Kemp or Bobby Brown

Matter fact NJS wasn’t even considered a thing until his hip hop group Wreckx N Effect dropped the New Jack Swing in 89. Rhythm Nation dropped just a couple months later so there’s no way they were making NJS because they were making the album before he even labeled his sound

I think you got your timeline mixed up :sas2:
 

BmoreGorilla

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Most Gangsta Rap started out as "Reality rap" and Story telling but like I said before dudes got that paper and sold the hell out worse than Hammer ever did. PE had fell off by 93/94 and the only one who stayed solid at a national level was Cube and then he eventually decided to do the Movie thing more, and from what I remember of his stuff in the mid to late 90s he fully embraced the negative elements of Gangsta rap.

by 95/96 Rap music in general started to go down that path of glorifying the worst things about black society vs telling the stories of these things and putting context on why it happens (like Gangsta Rap initially started off as).

NWA had skits about kid napping chicks and putting them in the trunk and crap :francis:
What happened is that people
Most Gangsta Rap started out as "Reality rap" and Story telling but like I said before dudes got that paper and sold the hell out worse than Hammer ever did. PE had fell off by 93/94 and the only one who stayed solid at a national level was Cube and then he eventually decided to do the Movie thing more, and from what I remember of his stuff in the mid to late 90s he fully embraced the negative elements of Gangsta rap.

by 95/96 Rap music in general started to go down that path of glorifying the worst things about black society vs telling the stories of these things and putting context on why it happens (like Gangsta Rap initially started off as).

NWA had skits about kid napping chicks and putting them in the trunk and crap :francis:
But during the peak of the NJS era 89-91 there were no two bigger acts than Cube and PE. By the time PE fell off NJS was dead anyway
 

BmoreGorilla

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Never remember Jodeci being the "gangstas" of R&B.
I thought it was a deliberate attempt to market them counter Boyz 2 Men.
Boyz 2 Men were wholesome and Jodeci were a bit rougher around the edges, but Jodeci never sung about being street or hard or anything like that.
As for why NJS died, I don't know if it was gangsta, because again it isn't like people went hardcore after NJS, if anything in R&B ballads acame back as well as solid harmonizations or vocals, with Diary and II dominating as well as R. Kelly himself leaving the New Jack style from Born in the 90s to 12 play solid R&B.

They initially didn't go harder IMO
Thats what I’m saying. NJS didn’t die because of anything gangsta. It died because there was a lack of substance there. Toward the end of that era you saw R&B groupsike Shai singing whole songs acapella. That shyt was a direct contrast to NJS
 

David_TheMan

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Teddy Riley produced The Show for Slick Rick and Doug E Fresh in 85. His first R&B production was Keith Sweat’s Make It Last Forever album in 87. This was before Kemp or Bobby Brown

Matter fact NJS wasn’t even considered a thing until his hip hop group Wreckx N Effect dropped the New Jack Swing in 89. Rhythm Nation dropped just a couple months later so there’s no way they were making NJS because they were making the album before he even labeled his sound

I think you got your timeline mixed up :sas2:
Guy started what is called the NJS style in 87
His guy fame got him working with Sweat and Brown and like you said his work with sweat was 87
My Perrogative came out in 88

Guy is what made NJS a thing, not Wreck N Effect. hell the term New Jack Swing was coined in 87 specifically in reference to Guy's music.
NJS is the popular name, but Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis were using the same elements that Teddy was using, you can listen to control and rhythm nation and hear NJS sounds.
 

Apollo Creed

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Thats what I’m saying. NJS didn’t die because of anything gangsta. It died because there was a lack of substance there. Toward the end of that era you saw R&B groupsike Shai singing whole songs acapella. That shyt was a direct contrast to NJS

Gangsta Rap and Bass Music overtook NJS when it came to Party Music though, had nothing to do with substance. NJS was pretty much an NY sound that had national appeal. When NJS died other regions began becoming more influential.
 

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NWA wasn’t bigger than PE breh. NWA barely even got any radio play
:heh:
Title Album details Peak chart positions Sales Certifications
US
[3]
US
R&B

[3]
AUS
[8]
GER
[9]
IRL
[10]
NZ
[11]
UK
[12]
Straight Outta Compton

4 9 8 36 7 43 35
nikkaz4Life
  • Released: May 28, 1991
  • Label: Ruthless, Priority
  • Formats: CD, LP, CS
1 2 — — — — 25
  • US: 2,300,000[4]
  • RIAA: 2× Platinum[13]

It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back
  • Released: June 28, 1988 (US)[19]
  • Label: Def Jam
  • Formats: CD, CS, LP
42 1 — 93 — 40 — — — 8
Fear of a Black Planet
  • Released: April 10, 1990 (US)[22]
  • Label: Def Jam
  • Formats: CD, CS, LP
10 3 30 15 30 17 15 24 19 4
Apocalypse 91... The Enemy Strikes Black
  • Released: October 1, 1991 (US)[24]
  • Label: Def Jam
  • Formats: CD, CS, LP
4 1 11 12 38 62 5 36 33 8

From 88 to 91 NWA outsold PE and out charted them.
 

David_TheMan

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Thats what I’m saying. NJS didn’t die because of anything gangsta. It died because there was a lack of substance there. Toward the end of that era you saw R&B groupsike Shai singing whole songs acapella. That shyt was a direct contrast to NJS
How did NJA lack substance when its simply a descritpion of sonic landscape, not musical substance.
That critique makes no sense.

The sonic landscape simply changed.
People went from the poppy NJS sound to less dancy more "soulful type songs" I guess you could say 94 was the real neo-soul movement because thats basically where everyone went back to R&B wise.

You could say in the early 2000s the neo-soul era died and we've been in a R&B/EDM shyt
 

BmoreGorilla

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Guy started what is called the NJS style in 87
His guy fame got him working with Sweat and Brown and like you said his work with sweat was 87
My Perrogative came out in 88

Guy is what made NJS a thing, not Wreck N Effect. hell the term New Jack Swing was coined in 87 specifically in reference to Guy's music.
NJS is the popular name, but Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis were using the same elements that Teddy was using, you can listen to control and rhythm nation and hear NJS sounds.
I’ll agree that Guy made it a thing but Keith Sweat dropped before Guy did. What made NJS what it was was the fact that it was production that could be both rapped and sung over.

Nobody was rhyming over Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis production
:comeon:
 

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I’ll agree that Guy made it a thing but Keith Sweat dropped before Guy did. What made NJS what it was was the fact that it was production that could be both rapped and sung over.

Nobody was rhyming over Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis production
:comeon:

History[edit]
A collaboration between former members of Minneapolis music group The Time, Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis, and Janet Jackson originated the style that came to be known as new jack swing with Jackson's third studio album, Control (1986). Jam and Lewis used similar influences with hip-hop influenced drums with smoother R&B stylings in the production. Though Jackson had previously been popular in R&B music, Control established her crossover appeal in the popular music market. Musicologist Richard J. Ripani PhD, author of The New Blue Music: Changes in Rhythm & Blues, 1950–1999 (2006), observed that the album was one of the first successful records to influence the rise of new jack swing by creating a fusion of R&B, rap, funk, disco and synthesized percussion.[5] The new jack swing sound is particularly evident in the second single, "Nasty".[6] The success of Control, according to Ripani, bridged the gap between R&B and rap music.[5] He asserts that "since Jackson's album was released in 1986 and was hugely successful, it is not unreasonable to assume that it had at least some impact on the new jack swing creations of Teddy Riley."[5] Mantronix's early records in the mid-1980s also had new jack elements.[7]

The term "new jack swing" was coined in an October 18, 1987 Village Voice profile of Teddy Riley by Barry Michael Cooper.[8] "New Jack" was a slang term (meaning ~'Johnny-come-lately'[9]) used in a song by Grandmaster Caz of the Cold Crush Brothers, and "swing" was intended by Cooper to draw an "analogy between the music played at the speakeasies of F. Scott Fitzgerald's time to the crackhouses of Teddy Riley's time."[10]Teddy Riley's original name for the music was 'sophisticated bubblegun music'.*

The term "new jack swing" describes the sound produced and engineered by R&B/hip hop artist and producer Teddy Riley. Riley is an American R&B and hip hop singer-songwriter, musician and record producer. He led the band Guy in the late 1980s and Blackstreet in the 1990s. Riley said, "I define the term [new jack swing] as a new kid on the block who's swinging it."[11] The defining feature of Riley's music was the introduction of swingbeats, "a rhythmic pattern using offbeat accented 16th note triplets."

Music website VH1.com notes that while in the 2000s, "hip-hop and R&B are kissing cousins," in the early 1980s, "the two genres were seldom mentioned in the same breath." However, in the late 1980s, "during the era of high-top fades, and parachute pants, producer Teddy Riley and label boss Andre Harrell successfully fused and marketed the two sounds in a sexy, exclamatory music that critics termed new jack swing. It sparked a revolution." Riley stated that before new jack swing, "Rappers and singers didn't want anything to do with one another," because "Singers were soft, rappers were street." Riley's new style blended "sweet melody and big beats."[12] The sensibilities of Riley's fusion of the styles would forever change pop music/hip-hop music pairing and was further popularized with Bad Boy's dominance of the late '90s through much of the same techniques. Riley, a 19-year-old kid from Harlem, quickly became an A-list producer and commanded big fees to add his sound to major artist projects. The aesthetic of the culture also spread to mainstream white audiences through popular groups such as New Kids on the Block.
 
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