Martin Scorsese - Marvel movies are 'not cinema'

[obarth]

i AM ironman

@Ironman You see this?

 

[Rekkapryde]

Wait...is Stark's drunken party in Ironman 2 supposed to be a representation of the crippling alcoholism that has been a crucial part of the comic character's bio for ages now? They glossed over that, quick fast like Ramadan, in the movies. Matter of fact, Disney straight up told writers/directors to get rid of the plot point of Tony being an alcoholicStark was portrayed as a charismatic, playboy, billionaire. His faults in the MCU are nothing like his faults in real life. At worst, Tony Stark is portrayed as an egotistical a$$hole.

Tony Stark vows to have his company stop manufacturing weapons of war at the beginning of the second act of Ironman. Dude is already showing he's a good guy from the get go. There is no arc. Tony is a winner from the beginning to his self sacrificial end.

What's your favorite Robert Downey Sr. movie? Can you name a Robert Downey Sr. movie?But he was born into his father's legacy, right? Not to mention how tacked on Tony's daddy issues were, just to make Civil War's climax somewhat meaningful.

If they wanted to make Tony Stark's story even somewhat reminiscent of RDJr's they would have had to take some risks and go lengths that at this point we know Disney will not go. It's to their benefit since they're practically printing money with their formula

That's fair but I think we can meet in the middle of what you and @SunZoo said.

The formula won't last forever and will get stale which is why it's critical that Disney start to let Marvel have a lil more leeway to be creative in their theater offerings. The Netflix and other TV jawns have been pretty good with that.

 

[Ironman]

@Ironman You see this?

@wire28

 

[obarth]

That's fair but I think we can meet in the middle of what you and @SunZoo said.

The formula won't last forever and will get stale which is why it's critical that Disney start to let Marvel have a lil more leeway to be creative in their theater offerings. The Netflix and other TV jawns have been pretty good with that.

We will likely never see a feat to the scale of 20+ movies leading to what we just saw, so seamlessly. That is a blessing and a curse in and of itself. Marvel has the faith of consumers. But they can't top what they just did. So I think the best move forward is to let writers write, let directors direct, and make some great shyt that can stand on its own. There's plenty of source material to do that. If you see a plausible reason to tie storylines together, cool. If not, just keep adapting good shyt.

 

[Norrin Radd]

Martin Scorsese Laments "Young People's" Understanding of Cinema, Shoots Down Question on Lack of Female Characters

"If the story doesn’t call for it…it’s a waste of everybody's time," said 'The Irishman' helmer about the discussion of showcasing roles for women in his films.

Martin Scorsese presented his new film The Irishman at the Rome Film Fest on Monday along with producer Emma Tillinger Koskoff as the festival’s centerpiece event. The film, which details one of the most famous mob hits in history, that of Jimmy Hoffa, stars Robert De Niro, Al Pacino and Joe Pesci.

Scorsese described The Irishman as a film about “mortality and the unraveling of a life,” and “the immediate human experience” that he hopes anyone could relate to.

The director also continued his tour of widely publicized comments in criticizing theaters for throwing most of their weight behind Marvel and DC films. “The key that I’m hoping for is for theaters to continue to support narrative cinema of this kind,” said Scorsese, naming off other filmmakers including Noah Baumbach, Wes Anderson and Paul Thomas Anderson.

He continued to criticize what is now viewed as cinema, and went further in lamenting how young people today experience life and understand (or fail to understand) the consequences of history.

His main wish, he clarified, is that “the theaters support the films. But right now the theaters seem to be mainly supporting the theme park, amusement park, comic book films. They’re taking over the theaters. I think they can have those films; it’s fine. It’s just that that shouldn’t become what our young people believe is cinema. It just shouldn’t.”

Scorsese said it’s “quite sad” that the life of Jimmy Hoffa is largely unknown today. “As well known as he was, time just wiped him away,” he said.

“This is the world we live in. Our children are, I don’t know what they’re doing with those devices. They perceive reality differently. They perceive even the concept of what history is supposed to be [differently],” continued the director.

“How are they going to know about WWII? How are they going to know about Vietnam? What do they think of Afghanistan? What do they think of all of this? They’re perceiving it in bits and pieces. There seems to be no continuity of history.”

A member of the Italian press also asked Scorsese why his films’ protagonists are mainly men, showing few interesting female stories. The Hollywood Reporter’s review of the film called The Irishman “very much a movie about middle-aged men, and you miss the electric female energy of great roles that Scorsese shaped for Lorraine Bracco, Cathy Moriarty and Sharon Stone, among others.”

A somewhat frustrated Scorsese immediately shot down the journalist's question. “No. That’s not even a valid point. That’s not valid. I can't…. That goes back to 1970. That’s a question that I’ve had for so many years. Am I supposed to?”

“No,” chimed in Koskoff.

“If the story doesn’t call for it…. It’s a waste of everybody’s time. If the story calls for a female character lead, why not?”

“Alice Doesn’t Live Here,” chimed in Koskoff again.

“Oh, that’s only one film. They don’t count that. Age of Innocence, they don’t count that,” said Scorsese.

“Casino,” said Koskoff.

“Casino. Sharon Stone’s great in that. They don’t count that. Forget it,” said Scorsese. “‘It’s all these men,’” he continued, implying he was being unfairly targeted, which prompted larger applause from the Italian press.

“Sure, I’d like to do,” said Scorsese. “But you know what, I’m 76 now. How am I going to have the time? I don’t know what’s going to happen. We don't know. I don’t have time anymore.”

Martin's thinking about the children

 

[Saysumthinfunnymike]

Scorsese giving no fukks out here

 

[SunZoo]

 

[Still FloW]

So don’t buy stock in 99% of the companies listed on the Dow Jones? Where’s the line in the sand on this?

and did you just call me white did buying stock in a wildly successful company? Explain that one please.

make excuses for supporting nazis brehh

 

[hex]

@hex Where did either of them say anything about a father taking his kids to Endgame and the "bonding" experience? You reaching with that one.

They are talking about the movies themselves, the writing and the way they are constructed. A lot of comic book movies are constructed by committee and they aren't touching on themes in a way that anyone would describe as fruitful or deep or enlightening in any way.. A lot of it is CGI crashing into CGI like a Transformers movie and don't say it isn't because it is.

Yeah Coogler did a nice job and was able to sneak some things into Black Panther that sets it apart from a lot of comic book movies just like Phillips just did with Joker but you can't tell me most of these movies and their directors and writing teams aren't handcuffed artistically.

If he's saying the movies shouldn't be in theaters....then he clearly don't give a fukk any bonding experience from seeing them in theaters.

You really needed him to specifically say "fukk your bonding experience"?

The fact that I have to explain that is kinda mind blowing.

If somebody took their 12 year old kid to see I dunno...."Ironman 3"....a movie I fukking hate....and then, 6 years later, took their 18 year old to see "Endgame"....who gives a fukk what Scorsese is talking about? Who is he to say that theater experience shouldn't exist, because comic movies don't fit his view of "cinema"?

Scorsese made it a point in one of his diatribes to define cinema by the communal experience of how and where a film is viewed, in theaters with an audience. The issue is, most "narrative films" don't require a 20 foot screen or a bunch of fanfare to warrant how expensive it is to go to a movie 9 times outta 10 when they can catch it on Netflix.

No they aren't.

Copolla didn't address any of that...and Scorsese would have actually had to watch them to get that deep into them, which he didn't.

He's had much more to say about his own film, why he couldn't get it made with a major studio and fighting back against the invasion of the two or 3 Marvel movies a year that somehow edge out every other type of film there is to be seen and bring crowds that don't have the 'communal experience' that HE wants them to have.

Thank you.

Scorsese giving no fukks out here

I guess "giving no fukks" is short hand for "acting like a clown" in your world.

Dude just went on a "get off my lawn"-esque rant about young people's understanding of life and history.

That's cool shyt to you?

Like I said, the more dude talks the more he comes off bitter and

Fred.

 

[Still FloW]

bullshyt cinema, mid-cu szn.. the veil has been lifted on that mcdonalds cinematic universe

stans hurt

 

[SunZoo]

I guess "giving no fukks" is short hand for "acting like a clown" in your world.

Dude just went on a "get off my lawn"-esque rant about young people's understanding of life and history.

That's cool shyt to you?

Like I said, the more dude talks the more he comes off bitter and

Fred.

Why doesn't anybody talk about Jimmy Hoffa anymore.

 

[Still FloW]

Again... I don't think they are "right" to say its not cinema. However, I get where they are coming from.

Look at Black Panther. Its thematically by FAR the richest film in the the MCU. However, its trapped in the MCU. The great thing about the MCU is that it allows for a movie like that to even exist. The issue becomes its confined to the soundstages, filmed in Atlanta, stripping the cinematography of its richness through filtering so it looks like every other MCU.

Thats why if you really search the net its a lot people saying its overrated. Why? Because it doesn't have the action or CGI they are use too. Think about that. Now obviously the CGI is high quality in the MCU it just wasn't the case with Black Panther. However, thats the risk when you're dependant on that. Also that audiences are so conditioned to fights/action/cgi that it completely glosses over the world building, story telling, intimate themes of the black diaspora . Now we got it. Some didn't? Why?

Because its made to look like everything else and that cinematic language gets lost and some of wonderful directing/writing gets lost as well on others. Its why you here doubters say "Oh its just a typical Marvel movie"

I love Black Panther and think its the best MCU film or at least near the top. However, I can't shake one thought...


Imagine Black Panther OUTSIDE of the MCU. Filmed in Africa, filmed with real sets, Coogler using that Creed level cinematography or shooting on film like with Frutivale Station. Imagine if they didn't cut 30 minutes out of the movie because they weren't focusing on ticket sales.

Movie would have put all them damn Lord of Rings movies to shame.

The MCU is amazing in what its done. However, its a business and a system. Its created so that no movie can fail. And so far none have really. All of them are good to a degree. A few great. Thats a great business model. Its just the system doesn't allow for that potential masterpiece. To be fair it also ensures that it doesn't give us a film like those last two X-Men movies.

Here's hoping they let Coogler/Taika get more freedom on their sequels though. Those dudes are talented enough where you can let the reigns go.

basically

/thread

 

[ECA]

Ima need Terrence Malick or David Lynch to shyt on Marvel next to make the cypher complete and I say this as someone that enjoys the MCU for the most part

 

[Ya' Cousin Cleon]

ya'll are really that bothered by nothing at all

I'm saying man.

The thread is full of people like "what's the big deal, they're just shytting on comic movies"....but for a lot of people it's not about the content.

It's about....cats took their 6 year old to see "Ironman", and now their teen drove them to see "Endgame". Or there was a kid with cancer, and wanted to see "Infinity War". He died before he could.

So for people to say "nah bro you gotta respect these guys, they're legends"....I'm watching "The Irishman" day 1 but these guys are getting the same energy they put out.

Fred.

 

[hex]

Why doesn't anybody talk about Jimmy Hoffa anymore.

Exactly. I get that these cats like his movies but it seems they're incapable of admitting he's kinda coming off like a clown at this point.

It's patronizing as fukk to assume young people don't know about things he considers important. I'm older than most of the board and I'd never say some shyt like that.

"Why aren't young people talking about rotary phones any more?!"

Fred.