Martin Scorsese - Marvel movies are 'not cinema'

[8WON6]

Still don’t understand what he has to be envious about in this since. The man can make any movie he wants at this point, he’s got awards on the shelf, made millions, and made flicks people have talked about for 40 years now. He’s going down in history as one of the greatest of all time. Someone asked his opinion and he gave it. You can have that opinion without any ill will. A lot of us have opinions on movies and music and tv shows but don’t feel envious about the shyt. I think a lot of rap nikkas are wack but in no way do I want their lives lol. But if someone asks me how I feel about any rapper, I’m going to give my opinion.

These ultra successful people care about their legacy and where they rank. Yall don't think these people aren't looking at them Endgame and Avatar numbers. Then seeing a couple more MCU movies right behind that and getting in their feelings? These people have egos and get salty just like the rest of us.

 

[MartyMcFly]

These ultra successful people care about their legacy and where they rank. Yall don't think these people aren't looking at them Endgame and Avatar numbers. Then seeing a couple more MCU movies right behind that and getting in their feelings? These people have egos and get salty just like the rest of us.

No I don’t think a man who’s made taxi driver, raging bull, and the damn king of comedy is worried about where he ranks on the all time box office list. I think he’s more concerned with oscars and awards. Which he has and which he’ll probably continue to be in the conversation for until he retires.
Scorsese doesn’t make ultra accessible movies. They’re commercial hits in spite of his subject matter not because of it. They’re often rated R, violent as fukk, or controversial in one way or another, like the last temptation of Christ. Or very personal and not commercial at all, like silence. This isn’t a guy who looks at box office and goes “damn I sure wish I had the number one or two ranked movies of all time” cause he’s never made movies that would even compete for that.

He knows his lane. His lane is the stuff he’s been doing since the 70s. So no, I don’t think his ego is at play here nor is he salty. He’s a grown ass man who’s had his heyday and has pretty much done all there is to do in Hollywood. He’s made classics. He’s made flops. He’s been the toast of the town and he’s been the comeback kid. He’s even been boycotted by the Catholic Church.

I said it earlier but his definition of “cinema” is different based on his experiences. Context matters and when you apply that context, of course he feels how he feels.

 

[8WON6]

his definition of “cinema”

this is what the whole thread is about. There is a baseline definition that is common sense. Him saying the MCU isn't cinema is just flat out bullshyt. Rattlin off his resume=strawmanning.

 

[Supa]

The Gordon Ramsey thing is especially because if he was a director he'd 100% like (or at least respect) comic movies.

This is the same dude that took his chef staff to a hot dog stand because he wanted to show them there's different lanes for different types of people. Not everyone is a chef and not everyone wants to be a chef....and not everyone wants chef prepared food 24/7/365. Take what he said and apply it to movies of all kinds.

Fred.

I used to think chefs were elitist but seeing them on TV/YouTube dispelled that. They might own a fancy restaurant but they'll go out for wings or tacos.

Just look at his response to if he's seen the movies; "I tried." Just say you're not familiar with the stories or characters. Say it's not your cup of tea but don't say it's not cinema when you couldn't dedicate two hours out of your busy schedule to watch one and see if it meets your right criteria.

"It isn’t the cinema of human beings trying to convey emotional, psychological experiences to another human being."

This the definition of cinema now?

The nerve of this prick to tell all the writers, directors, actors, and everyone involved that their work isn't cinema.

Idiots in here acting like there's validity to his statement

 

[SunZoo]

 

[Zero]

nikkas in here defending comic book movies more than their own families...disgusting

 

[MartyMcFly]

this is what the whole thread is about. There is a baseline definition that is common sense. Him saying the MCU isn't cinema is just flat out bullshyt. Rattlin off his resume=strawmanning.

Or it’s him saying “this is what it means to me” and that’s okay. Every single damn person here has a different meaning of what means what. We can go to the booth and ask 10 posters for their definitions on hip hop and what is hip hop and what constitutes “real” hip hop and we’ll get different answers. Even the idea of what makes a good rapper isn’t one everyone universally agrees on. So I again go back to context. To divorce context from anyone’s opinion on any art is the wrong move

 

[AnonymityX1000]

nikkas in here defending comic book movies more than their own families...disgusting

Who is talking about their family on the coli? Oh no one. Try again.

 

[GMoney]

I see the whole western comparison and I used to buy it but I don't think it really works. A western is a western...while you can tweak it somewhat, it's way easier to take source material from comics and actually genre specific films.

After all the comic book reboot and crossover (variant covers) madness of the mid-90s, I lost interest in comic book stories, so aside from the occasional show or comic movie I get in to, I'm no longer invested in the content being created, but I agree that there's enough content to be mined for a long time, but that doesn't mean the creatives behind these projects won't muck it up. See Alex Kurtzman's Spider-Man or the Dark Universe (or anything he touches including Star Trek ).

There's two arguments here, there's the commercial and the artistic. Why did Westerns die-off and get played out is somewhat a different discussion than the artistic decline of Westerns. I like spaghetti westerns of the 60s and the karate (billy jack) and comedy/parody westerns of the 70s. I like sci-fi inspired westerns like Firefly.

There was still good material there, but westerns and movie-going were so popular in the 50s that they had double features and all sorts gimmicky low grade "cinema" being made to fill the demand. There were other factors that killed the big studios and movie-going back then but with all of the remakes, genre spectacle flicks, and even 3D movies being made again, it does make you wonder what kind of moment we're in.

 

[Carlton Banks]

I’m not trying to watch gay ass pretentious art house movies everyday. I want to see mindless action sometimes.

Right!! And ain't nothing wrong with that at all.

I don't give AF about how well some cac was crying and showing emotion and shyt. That doesn't always entertain me. I wanna see some cool shyt go down. Ain't that the reason mfs watch sports?

 

[Supa]

Look, how many careers are being propped up by Marvel right now? how many of these people will still be around after they have exhausted the 2nd and 3rd phases. Even ScarJo was on her way out before black widow, had Emily Blunt not pulled out she might be a TV actress right now. That's the point. You guys can say he's salty or whatever, but the Marvel Universe plays directly into the franchise over face model of movies. It's turned the film industry into fast food. It was't even this bad during the studio system. How many of these actors are a Pitt, Smith, DeNiro, DiCaprio, Clooney, Roberts, Foster, Hanks, Goldberg, Streep, Blanchett, Washington? How many Marvel stories will be considered classics 10 yeras from now and not in the dollar isle at the grocery store or Walmart?

Take away Marvel and ask those same questions. The vast majority of actors aren't those you named. The vast majority of movies are garbage to mediocre.

Why does everyone want to pretend like Hollywood was doing so well before comic book movies took off?

Then 3 Strikes is cinema too. I think of cinema as films that will stand the test of time. More than 80% of the Marvel catalog has already come and gone.

A motion picture shown in a theater is cinema. Why add your opinion to it? Who decides whether a movie stands the test of time?

Scorcese got y'all jumping out the window with these takes

 

[ExodusNirvana]

The Gordon Ramsey thing is especially because if he was a director he'd 100% like (or at least respect) comic movies.

This is the same dude that took his chef staff to a hot dog stand because he wanted to show them there's different lanes for different types of people. Not everyone is a chef and not everyone wants to be a chef....and not everyone wants chef prepared food 24/7/365. Take what he said and apply it to movies of all kinds.

Fred.

The Gordon Ramsey thing is also absurd because even he could whip you up a burger and fries and a shake if you asked him to but he'd just do it in a different way and that shyt would still be comfort food at best but it would be DELICIOUS and you would enjoy it.

 

[ExodusNirvana]

The rap analogy is trash. Hip hop has a specific cultural appeal and contains tons of variety so its impossible to paint the whole genre. Comic book movies are big budget commercial products, mass produced by 2 giant corporations. If anything they should be compared to Lou Perlman style boy band POP MUSIC

Breh the source material is comic books and they have HUGE cultural appeal

We're talking about award winning source material that is just NOW getting it's due via film...if you think that emotion, real life issues, and character development hasn't been in comics long before Marvel and DC realized they could make a billy per flick, I suggest you pick up The Watchmen, Batman: The Killing Joke, or any number of other graphic novels that have come out in the past 20-30 years.

 

[Norrin Radd]

Y'all keep framing this as an MCU thing.
You think he's not taking about all comic book movies?

Scorcese is being an elitist, pretentious gatekeeper. His reputation doesn't make him right. If he had certain issues with the genre that's one thing but to dictate what is and isn't cinema is not something he gets to do.

He didn't even see any of the movies

Yeah, I have a hard time believing he was in the theater watching Shazam like “Now THIS, this is art!”

 

[noob_saibot]

What makes something cinema or not?
If you used a camera, filmed something and got it released in theaters it's cinema.

right, you won't get a good answer because comic book movies are obviously cinema too, just a cheap shot for who knows what reason.. I really don't get people who look down on others for their taste in movies/music/art etc. In the end it's just entertainment.