K.O.N.Y
Superstar
nor did he have any belief of a chance of black hegemony. The things he was asing/seeking of us, would have been better suited for predominantly black countries-caribbean African countries etc
Marcus Garvey v.s W.E.B Dubois and the battle for Liberia
- Thread starter Apollo Creed
- Start date
David_TheMan
Banned
he was trying to move blacks from US to predominantly black nations like liberia and in general back to africa, he wanted to use the economic infrastructure of advanced nations and then take that captial with them when they immigrated back.
Yeah, well-intentioned and ambitious but definitely in la la land.
What do you think would have been most ideal in your opinion?
Something like the Poor People's Campaign is ideal.
With an end goal of still existing in an "integrated society" just under better living conditions?
Yeah Garvey was a bit naive in that he was too trusting and loud with his plans, but I still think he had good intentions and a good plan.
Society isn't ever segregating again and better living conditions is the goal.
He could have capitalized with easing relations with the Indigenous groups there and had more numbers on his side, but either way a Western Power would have gotten him out the paint because he wouldn't have had the military (at least initially) to be able to do what he wanted.
IMO I think the NOI under Elijah Muhammad probably had one of the best movements, but I don't think the end goal of Blacks getting a Nation within the Land of Continental US would happen.
Segregation will always exist to a degree though. And I don't like the idea of the "better jobs" thing, I think fair access to capital to create jobs for self is better. If Blacks had gotten anything from the Govt that was for the purpose of actual empowerment no way they could co exist with whites at that time because it would create even more tension.
Thoughts on this thread?
http://www.thecoli.com/threads/should-african-americans-become-our-own-nation.338186/page-3
And no I don't mean AAs actually having our own nations like many thought, but us defining AAs into a specific ethnic group with a specific culture and history, because once you do that and have other people recognize you as such they you can rally as a people on a path to self-determination, like the Kurds, Chechens, Assyrians, Native american nations, etc,etc. I don't know if people like @Poitier would agree with that logic.
The PPC addressed capital and housing.
I don't feel strongly either way about it.
America creates a Unique situation due to immigration. Pre Civil Rights there was no real immigration of Blacks from other nations so there was no confusion of what an AA was, but now you have larger cases where a Persons Dad may be from Detroit but his mom is from Jamaican, both parents histories are equally important and shouldn't have to compete, but is that person truly a Jamaican or AA? I think thats why we see the shift towards "Black". Blacks are the only people on earth who went through what we did so its fairly difficult to apply the rules of people who didnt experience the Transatlantic Slave trade to Blacks.
It's a sticky subject honestly. At the end of the day we all had an Ancestor that lived in Africa, and these said Ancestors made history and created culture everywhere they landed. No other group has a history where Your Great Great Great Great Grand Mother is my Great Great Great Great Grand Aunt, but you were born in Ghana and I was Born in Brooklyn and the people who came after our ancestor made 100+ yrs of history in two different nations, yet we are still literally cousins.
David_TheMan
Banned
NOI had a good idea but with a 90% christian base in the US they were never going to get over in demanding conversion.
Would have been better off keeping the actual objectives but delinking it from their religion imho
the NOI wasnt preaching "Islam" though, this is the misconception people always make. Almost everything they talked about was Allegory.