Little Brother: 9th Wonder wasn't the real producer for our albums, Phonte was

[Ziggiy]

I understand that if I’m not mistaken 9th teach a class at Duke plus he got other obligations as well. If they all apart of Hall of Justus they can find someone to DJ their tour dates that’s within the family. Like I said just give 9th an agreed percentage of each show, when he was producing their albums. Now obviously they use other producers but back around their first 2 albums they should’ve done that. Cuz their fans were sad when they split yet they still came back together the energy just not there as their earlier work.

So 9th gets to take off to do his own thing while Pooh and Phonte are grinding their asses off night after night? You sound like you would be a HORRIBLE businessperson. What about when Phonte is doing his podcast, or writing for commercials and tv shows, or working with Foreign Exchange? Should 9th and Pooh just have Median do Phonte’s verses on the days he can’t mKe it because he’s prioritizing other ventures over the group? Should Legacy do Pooh’s verses when Pooh is off managing Lute? Where does it end?

The fact is that if your going to be a group, you need to be a GROUP, in all ways. You grind together, you tour together, thats what makes a group a GROUP. Phonte and Pooh, no matter their respective solo obligations, make it work. 9th wasn’t willing to do that which makes it bad not only for the business but ultimately the music itself

 

[Turbulent]

This debate will never end in hip hop because it's too complicated and every situation is different.

Beatmaking and production are two different things and sometimes the same person wears both hats. Also, sometimes the beatmaker is more important to the sound while other times the producer makes the biggest difference. Sometimes the rapper is also the producer and sometimes not. Some albums rely more on beats while others rely more on choruses along with the beat and vocal delivery. Some rely a lot on the mix and sound design while others rely more on composition and arrangement. Every album has different circumstances where the weight of each role is different. And a lot of things overlap.

Sometimes the producer is the main guy. Sometimes it's the guitarist. Sometimes it's the singer. Sometimes it's the composers. In the Beatles, their main producer was George Martin (sometimes called the 5th beatle) but the driving creative force was Lennon and McCartney who wrote most of the lyrics and music.

Ultimately, the roles don't really matter as it all overlaps. In the end, whoever contributes value consistently and knows how to command respect will get rewarded.

EDIT: I think it's really about who's "The Guy" creatively, not about producer vs beatmaker. Ye is the guy within his camp. Same with Dre. Same with Rza. Same with Qtip. Same with Timbo and Pharell. Meaning they are all more integral to the sound than other components.

 

[Doobie Doo]

I don't understand that analogy. Puff is neither a beatmaker or a producer

And Easy Mo Bee is both a beatmaker and Producer

Look I make beats and I send them to rappers and they write and record the song without me being present. That makes me a beat maker.

Then there's time where I make the beat and I am in the studio with the artist when they record. I will tell them if they need to redo a take or if the energy could be better or if the hook needs to be done better or if they need to remove or re arrange words in their bars. I'm literally directing people in the studio and that's when I consider myself a producer.

With that being said there have been plenty of times where people record on my beats without me and give me full credit for production when we should share co production credit.

 

[Monoblock]

I see nothing wrong with what was said. If you are a fan of LB's work you know Phonte was the one who came up with the ideas of the skits and themes for the first album (radio broadcast throughout the day) and the second album (a black TV network parody). The sequencing of the songs, and placement of verses. Totally different from a beatmaker and from what I understand 9th was the one just mailing in beats and not hands on in the group. This has been talked about enough though. I wish all of them success and prosperity.

 

[Yagirlcheatinonus]

So 9th gets to take off to do his own thing while Pooh and Phonte are grinding their asses off night after night? You sound lime you would be a HORRIBLE businessperson. What about when Phonte is doing his podcast, or writing for commercials and tv shows, or working with Foreign Exchange? Should 9th and Pooh just have Median do Phonte’s verses on the days he can’t mKe it because he’s prioritizing other ventures over the group? Should Legacy do Pooh’s verses when Pooh is off managing Lute? Where does it end?

The fact is that if you’re going to be a group, you need to be a GROUP, in all ways. You grind together, you tour together, thats what makes a group a GROUP. Phonte and Pooh, no matter their respective solo obligations, make it work. 9th wasn’t willing to do that which makes it bad not only for the business but ultimately the music itself

So is 9th suppose to limit himself to just being a in house producer for LB?

 

[Art Barr]

He's saying producer in Puffy terms. 9th made the beats, Phonte was the one creating the concepts and figuring out how to develop the songs.

Puffy terms of producing in some rnb house music bullshyt artist. Using words like art house commission out of context and misappropriation of the word producer.
in place of art commission.

Since phonte was a writer in his rap records. Phonte was doing what phone was supposed to do.

Just because you commission an artist.
and have a suggestion about said commission. Does not mean you produced any work as an artist. If you make a suggestion to the creative process.
you are making a commission. You are not a producer or artist.


Stop letting mca way rnb culture thieves come into hiphop culture.
with their mca way misappropriation face ass games.
You are not a producer because you commission an artist and made suggestions.

Stop with the cap.

People who commission art are not producers.


Art Barr

 

[surv2syn]

I think we also have to realize that 9th probably never wanted to be a hardcore group member. they all have aspirations and Little Brother was a group concept. when you say Little Brother, its Phonte and Pooh. 9th was an early member. Same as when we say Dogg Pound we thinking Daz and Kurupt but Snoop is a member too. They really dont have beef like that. Its just that its a different dynamic. they didnt grow up together with the same aspirations of starting this group. Now that they all have been successful individually, they want to do things a certain was as a group and you have to have everyone on the same page. it wouldnt be out of the realm of them working together again, but that magic is gone. You think 9th wouldnt do a LB project when he producing albums for The Musalini? if he could just make beats for them and be done with it he would. Obvliously Phonte and Pooh want more of a commitment from him than he i willing to give and thats cool.

 

[Wargames]

I hope all this yapping isn’t them wasting time they could be using to make a new album….

 

[Yagirlcheatinonus]

I don’t wanna hear a new LB album unless 9th wonder make the beats, add some krysis, Nicolay etc

 

[surv2syn]

So is 9th suppose to limit himself to just being a in house producer for LB?

no. dont think you get it. Phonte and Pooh wanted to do a group album with 9th and apparently he wanted to do it as well but its not a group in their minds if he just does the beats and they go on and tour without him. people going to be asking where is 9th? he did do all the beats didnt he? thought they were back together again? if Rakim went on tour without Eric B, Will without Jeff, Q-Tip without Ali, Guru without Premier, Killer Mike without El-P, etc....its disingenuious to call those group tours. Those are more like solo acts. LB, instead of doing that, just had other people do their beats and production for the last album. It wasnt that they werent all on board to do the actual music.

 

[surv2syn]

I don’t wanna hear a new LB album unless 9th wonder make the beats, add some krysis, Nicolay etc

your prorogative but it really wouldnt make a difference. that magic is gone. 9th isnt going to make their albums any better. May the Lord Watch and To Dream in Color with both GREAT without 9th. 9th album with Musalini was great too but at the same time, Khrysis album with Musalini was just as good or better. 9th is dope but he currently not some great standout producer to where he gonna make a difference for LB. Anything they do would be more for nostalgia sake. There is a reason why 9th has Soul Council. Doubt he wants to be a full time producer or dj anymore, at least not at the moment.

 

[Yayo Toure]

your prorogative but it really wouldnt make a difference. that magic is gone. 9th isnt going to make their albums any better. May the Lord Watch and To Dream in Color with both GREAT without 9th. 9th album with Musalini was great too but at the same time, Khrysis album with Musalini was just as good or better. 9th is dope but he currently not some great standout producer to where he gonna make a difference for LB. Anything they do would be more for nostalgia sake. There is a reason why 9th has Soul Council. Doubt he wants to be a full time producer or dj anymore, at least not at the moment.

Yup.

9th wonder still produces alot of records, please direct me to one that is as good as his work from the early 2000s. Last Little Brother album had no 9th and was pretty good to me.

 

[TheDarceKnight]

So is 9th suppose to limit himself to just being a in house producer for LB?

I don’t think so but Phonte and pooh also said this in the documentary. Phonte said almost exactly “if your producer is worth a shyt at all they should be working outside of your group and you should be encouraging that and happy for that”

 

[Doobie Doo]

I don’t think so but Phonte and pooh also said this in the documentary. Phonte said almost exactly “if your producer is worth a shyt at all they should be working outside of your group and you should be encouraging that and happy for that”

Which leads me to my own conclusion. Now that roles are established then why can't they just keep cranking out products as a duo since their is a still established fanbase who wants more music

 

[Ziggiy]

So is 9th suppose to limit himself to just being a in house producer for LB?

Pooh and 9th’s issue was NEVER 9th being an in-house group only producer. There issue was him not touring and having an equal grind in the group and only wanting to email beats and not contribute to the overall cohesiveness of the albums.

Again, if your going to be a group then there needs to be equal contribution and equal buy-in amongst the members. Everybody is sacrificing to make it happen. Phonte has numerous methods of income, some more lucrative than Little Brother. Pooh has an entire separate artist development business where he has a collection of artists he manages. They could easily be focusing on those endeavors so it makes zero sense to allow 9th to focus on HIS endeavors while still benefiting off the Little Brother brand if he’s not putting in his fair share of work