Lets Talk African History: The Moors. Who Were They?

[Free White & 21]

Thanks but thoughts?

Including you guys @Raymond Burrr @satam55

Excellent thread.

I knew you'd do the dna and migration work necessary to back up your receipts.

Some of your post coincides with this video as well

Again, the majority of the Muslim foreigners in Iberia were Moors with some Arabs or Syrians. Not only that, the Moors were also the government officials there. We especially see this in Sicily. Think of Iberia during that time as a "colony" of the Caliphate, but the Moors being the ones managing it since they were so close to Southern Europe. But more importantly it seems most people forget about the Almoravid and Almohad dynasties which had ZERO to do with the Arab Caliphates but were independent dynasties that ruled Iberia.

 

[satam55]

Part Three: Medieval descriptions/Demographic change

Now that we already touched base on the long and tiresome bio-anthropological part lets finally address the "race" of the Moors/Berbers and how they were described by medieval sources and also how the demographic in Northwest Africa changed.

Since a lot of people believe that there was no demographic change, I want to address that first. It seems when it comes to Northwest African history everyone especially Eurocentrics and Northwest Africans themselves seem to be in big denial of the European slave trade and the European expelled Muslim population from Iberia.

When it comes to mixing the irony is that there really wasn't mixing; or its just that people put too much emphasize's on it in discussion like this. What most people do not know is that the area of Northwest Africa(Morocco/Algeria) was sparsely populated during the early period of the Moors. People also forget that converted European Muslims from Europe were expelled and flooded the coastal part of Northern Africa. Remember the term Moor soon meant all Muslim's in general. Non black Moors soon outnumbered the original black Moors.

To give you an example Christian renegades (Spanish, Italian, French, Albanian, etc. who would eventually convert to Islam) and the medieval slave trade had a major impact on places like Tlemcen, Oran, Bejaia (Bougie - Kabyle central) and especially Alger. Jacques Heers argues in "Les barbaresques" (2001, pg 227) at the time of Turkish rule in Algeria, something like 50% of the population in the capital was composed of European-Christian slaves (even Italian slaves by the seventeenth century). Saqalibas from the Balkans were also well represented. Besides, Arab excursions displaced many of the ancestral populations of the Maghreb between the 12th-15th centuries.

So again it really wasn't mixing but a large population from Europe displacing an already smaller population in an already sparsely populated area. The Berber's were also spread out. Which is also why they were displaced. You have to understand that the original Berbers did not really live on the coastal part of North Africa but in the Sahara and near the Senegal river. They were nomadic people for the most part. The origins of modern day lighter skinned North Africans is not all due to mixing but also European migrates after post-Moorish Iberia who easily displaced a population. Much similar to how Bantu migrates displaced the very small Khoisan population of South Africa.

Its a huge Eurocentric myth that Africans/blacks were the largest amount of slaves during that period when sources like this state, "Except for the Zandj (black slaves) from lower Iraq, no large body of blacks historically linked to the trans-Saharan slave trade existed anywhere in the Arab world ...The high costs of slaves, because of the risks inherent in the desert crossing, which would have not permitted such a massive exodus ... In this connection, it is significant that in the Arabic iconography of the period, the slave merchant was often depicted as a man with a hole in his purse. Until the Crusades the Muslim world drew its slaves from two main sources: Eastern and Central Europe (Slavs) and Turkestan. The Sudan only came third. " - Africa from the Seventh to Eleventh Century, UNESCO, 1988

So there you have it, blacks during the period of the Moors(Crusades) were a minority when it came to the slave trade. However, when it came to White/Europeans, they were literally EVERYWHERE in the Muslim world as slaves to a point where Slav people from Eastern European were associated with slaves. Thus the word slave came from Slav which we all know.

But more importantly, according to this article MILLIONS of white Christian Europeans were enslaved and flooded Northern Africa.

Spoiler

A million Europeans enslaved
An American historian says that more than a million Europeans were enslaved by North African slave traders between 1530 and 1780, a time of vigorous Mediterranean and Atlantic coastal piracy.


The number of white European slaves is only a fraction of the trade that brought 10 million to 12 million black African slaves to the Americas over a 400-year period, historian Robert Davis says, but his research shows the slave trade was more widespread than commonly assumed. The impact on Europe’s white population was significant.

“One of the things that both the public and many scholars have tended to take as given is that slavery was always racial in nature — that only blacks have been slaves. But that is not true,” said Mr. Davis, an Ohio State University professor.

“Enslavement was a very real possibility for anyone who traveled in the Mediterranean, or who lived along the shores in places like Italy, France, Spain and Portugal, and even as far north as England and Iceland.”

In a new book, “Christian Slaves, Muslim Masters: White Slavery in the Mediterranean, the Barbary Coast, and Italy, 1500-1800,” Mr. Davis calculates that between 1 million and 1.25 million Europeans were captured by pirates called “corsairs” and forced to work in North Africa during that period.

The raids were so aggressive that entire Mediterranean seaside towns were abandoned by frightened residents. “Much of what has been written gives the impression that there were not many slaves and minimizes the impact that slavery had on Europe.

“Most accounts only look at slavery in one place, or only for a short period of time. But when you take a broader, longer view, the massive scope of this slavery and its powerful impact become clear.”

The pirates, sailing from such cities as Tunis and Algiers, raided ships in the Mediterranean and Atlantic as well as seaside villages to capture men, women and children, he says. They were put to work in quarries, in heavy construction and as oarsmen in the pirates’ galleys.

Mr. Davis calculated his estimates using records that indicate how many slaves were at a particular location at a single time. He then estimated how many new slaves it would take to replace slaves as they died, escaped or were ransomed.

“It is not the best way to make population estimates, but it is the only way with the limited records available.”
A million Europeans enslaved

The translator of Leo Africanus Robert Brown mentioned - "The many European races, including the Vandals under Genseric, and the endless European slaves who, turning renegade, became absorbed into the population must have left their mark over the all the Barbary states” (Brown, 1896, p. 203).

According to Robert Davis Tripoli, was “occasionally reportedly crowded with large numbers of Greek slaves." (Davis, 2003, Christtian Slaves Muslim Masters, White Slavery in the Mediterranean, the Barbary Coast, and Italy, 1500-1800.p. 112)

And like I said they were literally every, going deep into the interior of North Africa according to this source, "Some masters put their white slaves to work on farms deep in the interior, where they faced yet another peril: capture and reenslavement by raiding Berbers. These unfortunates would probably never see another European for the rest of their short lives.”
http://www.thebirdman.org/Index/Oth...al-WhiteSlavery/UntoldStoryOfWhiteSlavery.htm

These were the slavers btw. This here is an article about said slavers.

So there you have it. European slaves played a big role in the demographic shift in an already sparsely populated region of the world. Anyone, denying the impact of the European slave trade on Northwest Africa is only being in denial. Not only that you also have the fact that a large amount of Muslim converts in Iberia were expelled to North Africa.

Spoiler

SPAIN’S FORGOTTEN MUSLIMS – THE EXPULSION OF THE MORISCOS

http://lostislamichistory.com/spains-forgotten-muslims-the-expulsion-of-the-moriscos/

The expulsion of Muslims from Spain was so bad that some considered it genocide and it is still felt today. But hey... Let the Eurocentrics tell it and the Northwest African population always looked the way they did. This is why we start seeing pale skinned Berbers in large frequencies around the 15th and 16th century. This is where we see the bulk of the Eurasian admixture in my opinion.

I was wondering what those Barbery Coast pirates looked like. "Hidden Colors" depicted them as black (1:34 mark):









but the book "Christian Slaves, Muslim Masters" depicts them as:

 

[observe]

Moors go back 1000s of years in Kemet. They were students and priests in the temples of Isis and Kon Ombo and parts of Arabia.

 

[Bawon Samedi]

Moors go back 1000s of years in Kemet. They were students and priests in the temples of Isis and Kon Ombo and parts of Arabia.

No they don't because the term "Moor" is just a term used by the Greeks/Romans to describe Northwest African blacks who had nothing to do with Ancient Egypt.

 

[observe]

No they don't because the term "Moor" is just a term used by the Greeks/Romans to describe Northwest African blacks who had nothing to do with Ancient Egypt.

What ever I'm not gonna sit here and argue
The Moors came out of egypt and brought kemitic science to Iberia . All that came out of KMt teachings

 

[Bawon Samedi]

What ever I'm not gonna sit here and argue
The Moors came out of egypt and brought kemitic science to Iberia . All that came out of KMt teachings

I know you said you weren't going to argue, but with statements like this you're going to have to provide evidence. Just saying.

The Moorish teachings were not "Kemitic" if anything it was Islamic influenced which the Ancient Egyptians were not.

 

[observe]

I know you said you weren't going to argue, but with statements like this you're going to have to provide evidence. Just saying.

The Moorish teachings were not "Kemitic" if anything it was Islamic influenced which the Ancient Egyptians were not.

Kushytes were already in Arabia before the rise of the prophet . When they invaded north North Africa the first place they went was into Egypt. They stayed in Egypt studying kemetic science decades before they invaded Spain

 

[Jammer22]

I wanna say that the caliphate at this time had far more Persian/West Asian influence, and then Greco-Roman influence than Egyptian.

And Moors basically remixed and elaborated on the above. They knew Aristotle and other ancient greeks more than ancient Egyptian scholars, philosophers and other intellectuals.

I mean even before Islam, Egypt was more of a Graeco-North African country. Anything Kemetic would have been deemed pagan and thus very unpopular.

 

[SonnyEMC]

Kushytes were already in Arabia before the rise of the prophet . When they invaded north North Africa the first place they went was into Egypt. They stayed in Egypt studying kemetic science decades before they invaded Spain

Stop making claims, bring the evidence.

 

[A Different Narrative]

Kushytes were already in Arabia before the rise of the prophet . When they invaded north North Africa the first place they went was into Egypt. They stayed in Egypt studying kemetic science decades before they invaded Spain

From what I've read about the Berbers the Berber languages are connected to Ancient Kemet.

 

[observe]

I wanna say that the caliphate at this time had far more Persian/West Asian influence, and then Greco-Roman influence than Egyptian.

And Moors basically remixed and elaborated on the above. They knew Aristotle and other ancient greeks more than ancient Egyptian scholars, philosophers and other intellectuals.

I mean even before Islam, Egypt was more of a Graeco-North African country. Anything Kemetic would have been deemed pagan and thus very unpopular.

Greek mythos is Egyptian science, the first Greeks were black Egyptians , the Etruscans. Afrocentrists think that Greeks came to Egypt to study but the truth is they already had the knowledge when blacks ruled Greece
Later on you get hermetic teachings which is actually Egyptian science and really the only science that was kept entact from Egypt. Then with Arabic you get alchemy which is Al an Arabic word and chem meaning black in Egypt so it means black arts and this is before Islam invaded . Bilal who is an African wrote the Koran because the prophet couldn't read . When Islam meaning was in Egypt they went into the temples to study for decades under Egyptian priests and these were the black moors. They were a student priest class.

 

[Bawon Samedi]

Greek mythos is Egyptian science, the first Greeks were black Egyptians , the Etruscans. Afrocentrists think that Greeks came to Egypt to study but the truth is they already had the knowledge when blacks ruled Greece
Later on you get hermetic teachings which is actually Egyptian science and really the only science that was kept entact from Egypt. Then with Arabic you get alchemy which is Al an Arabic word and chem meaning black in Egypt so it means black arts and this is before Islam invaded . Bilal who is an African wrote the Koran because the prophet couldn't read . When Islam meaning was in Egypt they went into the temples to study for decades under Egyptian priests and these were the black moors. They were a student priest class.

If you believe this then more power to you. But lets keep this thread about Berbers and the Moors.

 

[Bawon Samedi]

I wanna say that the caliphate at this time had far more Persian/West Asian influence, and then Greco-Roman influence than Egyptian.

And Moors basically remixed and elaborated on the above. They knew Aristotle and other ancient greeks more than ancient Egyptian scholars, philosophers and other intellectuals.

I mean even before Islam, Egypt was more of a Graeco-North African country. Anything Kemetic would have been deemed pagan and thus very unpopular.

Not only that in the OP I quoted a source that said the mathematics the Moors invented were from India and the the Middle East which has zero to do with Egypt.

 

[WheresWallace]

Dope thread. Subs so I can go through it thoroughly.

 

[BigMan]

Just read

Great thread

Learned a lot