Lestans according to the stats Luka is better than Bron was his first 100 games
- Thread starter EBK String
- Start date
Crakkka please.That white boy is nothing more than Boris Diaw with a green light. Him putting up these stats just shows how irrelevant stats are in today's NBA.
Nobody has ever used box score metrics to justify Kobe's greatness. We use the eye test (which is the most accurate measure of greatness) and what those who play the game say about who is the best.This thread is only relevant to Bron stans cause they're the ones that try to justify Bron's greatness with stats. I know Luka Doncic isn't close to LeBron. Hell he ain't even really that good of a player. However, stats can be manipulated by style of play, rules, and how a coach decides to run the offense. So Luka's statistical advantage over LeBron is not because he's better. Its because he's playing in a weak era where everyone is heaving up 3s and his coach has decided to give him the ball every possession. If you play like that then its hard not to rack up a lot of stats. James Harden is in a similar situation.
Kobe is the best because anyone with eyes could see it. His skill set was flawless. He had no weaknesses. His stats were a by-product of when he played, who he played with, and how his coaches ran the offense. Anyone who knows basketball knows stats can be manipulated.
LeBron's rookie year had the 2nd slowest pace since the early 50s, had zones AND hand-checking legal simultaneously, was loaded with defensive giants, and was arguably the most difficult year to score in of all time.
I mean come on now, you had a team with prime Kobe and prime Shaq (two supposedly unstoppable offensive talents) coached by the GOAT Phil Jackson and they only averaged 82ppg in the Finals. A Prime Kobe/Prime Shaq team scored 68 points (Shaq 14, Kobe 11, no one else on the team in double figures) in a Finals game.Kobe played 45 minutes just to put up an 11-3-5 with 4 turnovers stat line. That's some crazy shyt.
The last two years, on the other hand, are being played with fastest pace since 1990 (though isn't necessarily easier since it's not an expansion year like 1990 was and defense has locked in a lot since then), and is clearly the most opened up basketball has been in a couple decades.
Yet MJ's rookie year (and all the way up through his 5th year) was played at an even faster pace. AND the pace only dropped significantly when the NBA added six expansion teams between 1988 and 1995 (the most the NBA history had ever added in such a short time), fukking up the chemistry of so many teams and forcing so many unready players to get playing time that the league actually moved the three-point line in for MJ's comeback seasons just because fools couldn't shoot for shyt.
And that's before you even get into the teammates part of the equation.
THAT'S why some of y'all are so annoying. You try to make stat arguments from a place of total ignorance, then get pissed off when people use actual context to explain stats as if that should give you the right to use made-up context.
Why are you always sneaky and manipulative in your posts? You know good and well there is no statistical argument in favor of LeBron versus Luka at the same age (even taking pace into account). If there were you would have actually posted them already. But you haven't because you know there isn't. So rather than admitting that you instead try to trick and manipulate people with this post here talking about pace when anybody who knows anything about analytics knows there are several advanced stats that do take pace into account. You didn't post those advanced stats because you know they don't favor LeBron either.
The only arguments that can be made in Bron's favor are those made using the eye test. But you don't wanna admit that because you spent a lifetime arguing against that sort of logic when trying to claim LeBron is better than Kobe. Now you don't know how to act when inferior players like Luka come along and start demolishing all those statistical accomplishments you tried to use when touting Bron.
You know PER (player efficiency rating) takes pace into account. And the gap between LeBron and Luka thru their first 2 years according to PER is even larger the gap when just looking at normal box score stats (mainly cause young LeBron played way more minutes than Luka). Here are the stats you are trying to hide:
LeBron's PER as a 19 year old rookie: 18.3
Luka's PER as a 19 year old rookie: 19.6
LeBron's PER as a 20 year old 2nd year player: 25.7
Luka's PER as a 20 year old 2nd year player: 31.5
In fact, Luka's PER so far this season is higher than all but 2 of LeBron's highest PER seasons ever (and LeBron was barely higher in those 2 peak years). So statistically speaking you could say Luka is RIGHT NOW playing as good as LeBron has EVER played in his career.
You told us to look at the numbers. And the advanced stats are saying that Luka is WAY BETTER than LeBron was at the same age and as good right now as LeBron did in his peak.
Have you considered asking yourself how does this change the fact that Bron is the superior player to Kobe?
let’s extend that question to all you Kobe stans who discuss Bron more than Bron stans
He isn't a superior player to Kobe
knickscrusaderm
lead by example
I feel so bad for y’all Kobe stansHe isn't a superior player to Kobe
.It’s okay y’all will accept reality one day
Oh so NOW pace, style of play and rule changes the last couple years meant to benefit the offense makes a difference
Compare both the responses and general tune in this thread to this one
https://www.thecoli.com/threads/pippen-just-said-he-could-average-40-in-this-era.749524/
And
Dankster argued me down that pippen couldn't average 4 points more per game in today's juiced ass league with double degit increases in pace because shot contest defense is the best it's ever been...frame it somehow to include lebron and his entire argument flips on its head
The funny thing is when you take pace into account Luka's statistical advantage actually INCREASES. Mainly because young LeBron averaged 40+ minutes per game while Luka currently only plays about 32 minutes per game. Advanced stats like PER takes into account both PACE and MINUTES PLAYED. And when you look at PER Luka is way ahead of LeBron at the same age.
In fact, according to PER, Luka is currently playing at the same level as LeBron's peak (2008-09 and 2012-13). His PER this year is 31.5 and LeBron in 2009 and 2013 had a PER of 31.6 and 31.7. So if you look at the pace adjusted advanced stats they're saying that 20 year old Luka is WAY BETTER than 20 year old LeBron and just as good as peak LeBron during his prime.
This is facts but this a Stan wars thread so imma let y’all cook.
Do you not see how this post is so different from almost every other post you typically make regarding LeBron? I know the rest of us notice. Typically your posts are filled with a page long of stats trying to justify your opinion. Thus far in this thread I've not seen you cite ONE stat thus far to justify your belief that 20 year old LeBron is better than 20 year old Luka. I wonder why? Maybe its because there is no objective metric that supports 20 year old LeBron being better than 20 year old Luka. Currently Luka's PER is 31.5. LeBron's PER (which takes pace into account) when he was 20 years old was 25.7. This is why you have not cited all those advanced stats you typically love to post. Its because the advanced stats show that the gap between 20 year old Luka and 20 year old LeBron is even BIGGER than the traditional stats suggest.
Just admit that your old argument techniques were flawed. Because I actually agree with you that there is no comparison between Luka and LeBron. Luka is significantly inferior to LeBron at everything. However, unfortunately for you the stats don't support what we can all see with our eyes. The stats say the complete opposite. They say that Luka isn't just better than LeBron but significantly better at the same age. So rather than admitting this fact you are in here talking around in circles. Stop bullshytting and admit what you know is true.
Typically your posts are filled with a page long of stats trying to justify your opinion. Thus far in this thread I've not seen you cite ONE stat thus far to justify your belief that 20 year old LeBron is better than 20 year old Luka. I wonder why? Maybe its because there is no objective metric that supports 20 year old LeBron being better than 20 year old Luka. Currently Luka's PER is 31.5. LeBron's PER (which takes pace into account) when he was 20 years old was 25.7. This is why you have not cited all those advanced stats you typically love to post. Its because the advanced stats show that the gap between 20 year old Luka and 20 year old LeBron is even BIGGER than the traditional stats suggest.
Just admit that your old argument techniques were flawed. Because I actually agree with you that there is no comparison between Luka and LeBron. Luka is significantly inferior to LeBron at everything. However, unfortunately for you the stats don't support what we can all see with our eyes. The stats say the complete opposite. They say that Luka isn't just better than LeBron but significantly better at the same age. So rather than admitting this fact you are in here talking around in circles. Stop bullshytting and admit what you know is true.
damn LeGBT getting exposed
Congrats he’s a better offensive player than Lebron was.
Nah
Long Live The Kane
Tyrant Titan
Yup until his recent injury Luka was going back and forth between having the best and 2nd best PER of ALL TIME...and it wasn’t against Wilt or Jordan or Lebron, it was against Giannis this season (who last time I checked was still the highest in NBA history at this very moment)...according to advanced stats Luka is pretty much the GOAT, giving him the nod over Giannis because it’s only his 2nd/year 20 season
what makes the bullshyt Dankster is pulling so hilarious is like you said, we KNOW he knows all this shyt...was just in threads barely a week ago making the opposite argument...and is in here crying about pace and the greatness of Seth Curry and fukking Tim Hardaway Jr as teammates
