Kobe at 22 vs LeBron at 22

[Swagnificent]

That's a horrible argument because Wade and Bosh dealt with injuries during their time with Lebron (Bosh ripped groin, Wade's knee drain, etc) until Father Time came. Lebron got them at the end of their prime and Phil got them in the middle of theirs. Only difference.

Lamar was dealing with injuries and a crappy franchise in the clippers, Gasol also had injuries as he was coming into his prime and had made the playoffs in a loaded West with Battier as his 2nd option, etc.

now context matters.

I don't see you using this same nuance when looking at Kobe's career vis-a-vis LeBron. Now Gasol making the playoffs in the "loaded" West matters. But LeBron having a cakewalk in the East his entire career doesn't? And I don't think you wanna start talking about injuries. Kobe dealt with serious injuries to his knees going back to 2003. He had serious injuries in 2004-05 to his foot causing him to miss games or to play with pain the entire season. He missed the start of the 2006-07 season due to another knee surgery. He had multiple injuries to his shooting hand in 2007-08 that affected his ability to grip the ball. His knee had to drained multiple times during the 2010 playoff run. He was basically not able to practice for the entire 2010-11 season because of his knee. And I could keep going on.

Kobe was basically a walking injury for most of his career compared to the bionic man LeBron James. What would you say if I tried to use all those injuries Kobe suffered year after year compared to the reality healthy LeBron as an excuse to explain away differences in statistical performance?

This argument is pathetic even coming from you. The numbers and accolades are clear. Before joining LeBron, D-Wade and Chris Bosh were viewed in the basketball community as far better players than Gasol and Odom. In fact, I would argue that Bosh (LeBron's 3rd option) was thought of more highly as a PF before joining LeBron than Gasol (Kobe's 2nd option) was before joining Kobe.

 

[Box Factory]

sure...this guy was 280

If Mutombo was 280, I guess that makes Shaq 400 lbs? Right?

FTR, Mutombo was listed at 7'2" 245 lbs. Dikembe Mutombo Stats | Basketball-Reference.com

Shaq was 7'1" 325. Obviously when you outweigh a guy by 80 lbs. its easy to dominate him in the low block.

Ok, stupid fukk.

You're talking about Mutombo like he's a weak side shot blocker and not an interior defender.

Who did the 6ers trade for Mutombo and why did they do it?

I'll answer for you because im sure you'll start talking about mutombos eyes when he was 16 or some shyt.

They traded Theo Ratliff for him. Ratliff was easily one of the best weakside shotblockers in the NBA and they traded for Mutombo to have a post defender to try and defend Shaq.

You don't know or understand this shyt because you're a moron and you weren't watching back then.

And 245 was his weight when he came in the league. Literally everywhere lists him at 260 and i can guarantee you he was heavier than that.

Dikembe Mutombo - Wikipedia

NBA #55 Dikembe Mutombo - ESPN

Dikembe Mutombo Player Profile, Houston Rockets, NBA Stats, NCAA Stats, Game Logs, Bests, Awards - RealGM

DraftExpress - Dikembe Mutombo DraftExpress Profile: Stats, Comparisons, and Outlook

 

[JYoung24]

I have my issues with Kobe stans but Kobe as a player was excellent.

As an all time player, Lebron ranks better.

But if you're asking me: Both are 22 years old, who would you rather have? I don't know that there's a wrong choice. It depends on the kind of team you want to build.

LeBron is not better then kobe in the all time list

 

[Swagnificent]

Ok, stupid fukk.

You're talking about Mutombo like he's a weak side shot blocker and not an interior defender.

Who did the 6ers trade for Mutombo and why did they do it?

I'll answer for you because im sure you'll start talking about mutombos eyes when he was 16 or some shyt.

They traded Theo Ratliff for him. Ratliff was easily one of the best weakside shotblockers in the NBA and they traded for Mutombo to have a post defender to try and defend Shaq.

You don't know or understand this shyt because you're a moron and you weren't watching back then.

And 245 was his weight when he came in the league. Literally everywhere lists him at 260 and i can guarantee you he was heavier than that.

Dikembe Mutombo - Wikipedia

NBA #55 Dikembe Mutombo - ESPN

Dikembe Mutombo Player Profile, Houston Rockets, NBA Stats, NCAA Stats, Game Logs, Bests, Awards - RealGM

DraftExpress - Dikembe Mutombo DraftExpress Profile: Stats, Comparisons, and Outlook

That's cause he got heavier in Houston when he was older. In Philly he still looked like he did during his prime years on the Hawks.

And forget what dudes are listed at. JUST LOOK AT HIM PHYSICALLY NEXT TO SHAQ.

If Mutombo is as big as you claim, then how much does Shaq weigh?

Cause Shaq was SIGNIFICANTLY larger. He was always throwing Mutombo around like a rag doll in the post.

 

[Box Factory]

That's cause he got heavier in Houston when he was older. In Philly he still looked like he did during his prime years on the Hawks.

And forget what dudes are listed at. JUST LOOK AT HIM PHYSICALLY NEXT TO SHAQ.

If Mutombo is as big as you claim, then how much does Shaq weigh?

Cause Shaq was SIGNIFICANTLY larger. He was always throwing Mutombo around like a rag doll in the post.

Its one picture from a weird angle.

You don't even understand what kind of player Mutombo was so stop trying to comment on this shyt.

You said Mutombo wasn't a good post defender to try and shyt on shaq to prop up Kobe.

Just go sit in the corner for a while or go on youtube and actually watch this shyt you clearly never saw. Get an understanding of what you're talking about and stop filling page upon page with your garbage

 

[bnm8907]

I have my issues with Kobe stans but Kobe as a player was excellent.

As an all time player, Lebron ranks better.

But if you're asking me: Both are 22 years old, who would you rather have? I don't know that there's a wrong choice. It depends on the kind of team you want to build.

Wish thecoli had more logical answers like this

 

[bnm8907]

I think you mean 1 title.

2013 was a gift from Ray Allen and 2016 was a gift from Kyrie.

LeBron was saved from a 1-7 finals record by 2 of the greatest clutch shots of all time.

Plus LeBron has let 3 SFs playing against him win finals MVP.

This is just pure hate right here breh.

 

[Swagnificent]

This is just pure hate right here breh.

Hate? Those are pure facts. Ray Allen and Kyrie Irving hit 2 of the biggest clutch shots in NBA history in elimination games to gift LeBron championship rings.

Kobe or Jordan never had a teammate hit a shot in an elimination game during the final seconds in a do or die moment like Ray Allen in 2013. That shot saved LeBron's legacy.

 

[Remote]

LeBron is not better then kobe in the all time list

Yes, he is.

 

[Swagnificent]

Its one picture from a weird angle.

You don't even understand what kind of player Mutombo was so stop trying to comment on this shyt.

You said Mutombo wasn't a good post defender to try and shyt on shaq to prop up Kobe.

Just go sit in the corner for a while or go on youtube and actually watch this shyt you clearly never saw. Get an understanding of what you're talking about and stop filling page upon page with your garbage

when have I ever shyt on Shaq?

Hes #4 all-time in my player rankings. I consider him in his prime to be the most unstoppable force ever.

I just disagreed with the guy that was trying to say Mutombo was some great post defender. The guy was a good shot blocker. But he wasn't a guy who could guard Shaq in the low post. There were other centers who had more girth down low like Vlade Divac or Arvydas Sabonis that showed up better against Shaq in the low post. Why? Cause those guys weighed more than Mutombo.

Mutombo = great weakside shot blocker but a not so great man to man post defender

Divac and Sabonis = better man to man defenders against Shaq but worse as weakside shot blockers


Stop confusing good defensive stats like blocked shots with being a good low post defender. They don't always coincide.

 

[Swagnificent]

Yes, he is.

No, he's not.































See how easy that was.

 

[Jordan>>LeFrozen]

Except that Lebron was actually 21 when that season started. They weren't both 22.

It is a HUGE stretch to say that you're comparing Lebron's 4th season, one of his worst statistically, to Kobe's 5th season, the best of his first 6, just because "they were both 22 by the end of the season."





Shows how ignorant you are on the subject matter since neither Mo nor Delonte was on the Cavs in 2007. Delonte didn't come until the end of 2008, Mo didn't come until 2009. Cavs were actually even worse than you thought. I love arguing "eye test" with people who aren't even aware of which players were in the game.






How stupid is that argument? Shaq is drawing double-teams and that's supposed to make Kobe's statistics worse?

Kobe took 22.2 shots/game in 2001, the year the OP used.
Lebron took 20.8 shots/game in 2007, the year the OP used.

Lebron only had ONE season in his entire career where he took as many shots as Kobe did in 2001...and Kobe took even more, 23.5, in 2003!


So you complain that Kobe was "sharing the ball" with Shaq, even though Kobe took MORE shots than Lebron, was going to be MORE open than Lebron, and had BETTER opportunities for assists than Lebron.

Try to use the fact that Lebron had no one to pass to and no one to draw defenders off him as an argument for why his stats are so much better.

nikkas compare players at the same age all the time. Stop being a dikk head and using the fact that Lebron was born at the end of the year as some kind of cop out. They both turned 22 in the respective years posted you dumbass. The rest of my post was speaking on their general years which I said

They both were 22 that's why there was a comparison. Lebron was not only the 1st option but had free reign to what whatever he felt on those early Cavs teams Kobe was still a second option and the ball preferably went to Shaq. Lebron was sharing with who? Mo Williams? His father Delenta west? Keisha Cole ex-husband? Kobe averaged 28 in 2001. Take away Shaq and kobe legit puts up 32 easily don't bother posting no stat that says Kobe and Shaq shared the ball either. Won't matter. Lebron didn't have no Shaq to win all 3 final mvps, demand double teams, and averaged 32+

If you actually read instead of being so quick to put Lebron dikk in your mouth, you would see that I was referring to those early cavs year which both delonte, boobie and mo was part of in his first run with the cavs. how stupid are you? Shaq drawing double teams showed how dominant he was during that time. Where as Lebron was the dominant player on that cavs team. You take away Shaq and give his shot attempts to Kobe and that's legit 30+ per game that season. That was my whole entire point dikk head I don't care how many shot Lebron takes, stop derailing the subject. The point is kobe could have had much more points if he didn't have, ya know, a man who averaged 30+ in each finals and all those shots were given to Kobe to take.

 

[ISO]

nikkas compare players at the same age all the time. Stop being a dikk head and using the fact that Lebron was born at the end of the year as some kind of cop out. They both turned 22 in the respective years posted you dumbass. The rest of my post was speaking on their general years which I said


If you actually read instead of being so quick to put Lebron dikk in your mouth, you would see that I was referring to those early cavs year which both delonte, boobie and mo was part of in his first run with the cavs. how stupid are you? Shaq drawing double teams showed how dominant he was during that time. Where as Lebron was the dominant player on that cavs team. You take away Shaq and give his shot attempts to Kobe and that's legit 30+ per game that season. That was my whole entire point dikk head I don't care how many shot Lebron takes, stop derailing the subject. The point is kobe could have had much more points if he didn't have, ya know, a man who averaged 30+ in each finals and all those shots were given to Kobe to take.

So you saying if Kobe didn't have Shaq and took more shots he could possibly average more points

 

[JYoung24]

Lebron's a better basketball player than Kobe and it's not even a debate to people who know the game, but the stan wars are entertaining.

Most of the players think kobe is better are u saying they don't know the game

 

[Box Factory]

when have I ever shyt on Shaq?

Hes #4 all-time in my player rankings. I consider him in his prime to be the most unstoppable force ever.

I just disagreed with the guy that was trying to say Mutombo was some great post defender. The guy was a good shot blocker. But he wasn't a guy who could guard Shaq in the low post. There were other centers who had more girth down low like Vlade Divac or Arvydas Sabonis that showed up better against Shaq in the low post. Why? Cause those guys weighed more than Mutombo.

Mutombo = great weakside shot blocker but a not so great man to man post defender

Divac and Sabonis = better man to man defenders against Shaq but worse as weakside shot blockers


Stop confusing good defensive stats like blocked shots with being a good low post defender. They don't always coincide.

Nobody could guard Shaq in the post. Thats the whole point. If Mutombo was just a weakside shotblocker the 6ers wouldn't have traded Ratliff for him when Ratliff was probably a better weakside shotblocker. You didnt watch any of this shyt and have mo clue what you're talking about.

Sabonis didn't do better against Shaq.

Shaq averaged 28 and 12 against Sabonis for his career. Not a 5 game period at Shaqs peak like we're talking about with Mutombo

Arvydas Sabonis vs. Shaquille O'Neal | Basketball-Reference.com

Mutombo was the best interior defender at the time and the fact that you think he was just some weakside defender shows you have no clue and didnt watch basketball during that time.

I won't even get into you talking about Divac being a better post defender than Mutombo.

You're an idiot