Kobe at 22 vs LeBron at 22

[MalikX]

just looking at those numbers got me aggy that nikkas still use the final mvp argument to discredit Bean's first 3

yeah he had

and Shaq had

Average damn near 30 points in multiple seasons, take over in the 4th and bail your "star" player out in hella games and be called a non-factor sidekick by internet nikkas. Busting your ass for no credit. Only for those same nikkas to wonder why Kyrie would want to leave.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

It's literally the exact reason why Kyrie is leaving LeBron high and dry. They dug their own hole with that Yea Kobe had Shaq but Shaq had Kobe. The other greats had to play with real #2s whereas Shaq won rings with nikkas that were really #1s/Superstars. Kyrie saw that Kobe was averaging almost 30 points and still being called trash / sidekick by Bron Stans and said not me Bron Stans played themselves.

Kobestan believes that Kyrie makes major life decisions based on what someone else's chatty-patty internet stans said about Kobe and Shaq 15 years ago.


It's "literally" why Kyrie is leaving. Malik just accused Bron stans of singlehandedly altering the course of NBA history.


Stop projecting. For any adult to literally choose the future of his career based on what people he doesn't like say about him on the internet.

 

[Jordan>>LeFrozen]

Bullshyt. Let's pull up numbers for Kobe and Lebron's 2nd and 3rd option during their respective three peats then you tell me which one you'd take.

Wade-

22.8 (46%) / 5.2 REB / 4.3 AST (3 TOV) / 1.7 STLS / 1.3 BLKS - 1st Ring

15.9 PPG (46%) / 4.6 REB / 4.8 AST (2.6 TOV) / 1.7 STL / 1 BLK - 2nd Ring

2nd option Gasol:

18.3 PPG (58%) / 10.8 REB / 2.5 AST (1.9 TOV) / .8 STLS / 2 BLKS - 1st ring

19.6 PPG (52%) / 11.1 REB / 3.5 AST (1.9 TOV) / .4 STL / 2.1 BLKS

3rd Option Bosh:

14 PPG (49%) / 7.8 REB / .6 AST (1.4 TOV) / .4 STL / 1 BLK - 1st ring

12.1 (45%) / 7.3 REB / 1.5 AST (1.2 TOV) / 1 STL / 1.6 BLK 2nd ring

3rd option Odom:

12.3 (52%) / 9.1 REB / 1.8 AST (1.7 TOV) / .7 STL / 1.3 BLK - 1st ring

9.7 (46%) / 8.6 REB / 2 AST (1.2 TOV) / .7 STL / .9 BLK 2nd ring

So you wanna tell me that Bosh and Wade's statlines are drastically superior to Odom's and Gasol's? Mind you, you also say that the stats in the East are inflated because the East is so weak and that's why Lebron's playoff numbers don't matter.

You trying to say Odom and gas are up there with Wade and bosh? Lmaoo lord

 

[MalikX]

Kobe coulda won if he played with KG instead of shaq

Kobe would've won 6-7 rings with Tim Duncan. Dirk Nowitzki would've been a nasty combo too but Dirk would've had to come to LA though.

 

[Box Factory]

God some of yall are so dumb. This is why watching games is vital.

Mutombo was never a great interior post defender. Especially against a physical freak like Shaq. Mutombo was a rim protector. He won defensive player of the year because he blocked a lot of shots from guys who penetrated to the basket. Not because he was some incredible low post defender.

Mutombo was a skinny big who Shaq outweighed by 50-60 pounds. Shaq's dominance that series was no surprise.

You're literally a retarded pedophile and have no idea what you're talking about outside of when you're telling us what young prospects you find attractive.

Mutombo was probably closer to 280 at the point and was an awesome post defender. The reason Shaq dominated him is because Shaq was amazing AND a giant athletic freak.

Stick to commenting on how attracted you are to young boys n girls because this sports stuff isnt for you

 

[Jordan>>LeFrozen]

OP still hasn't explained why he decided to compare Kobe's 5th season, when Kobe was 22 on opening day to Lebron's 4th season, when Lebron was 21 on opening day.

Oh, I know why.

Lebron averaged 31-7-7 in his 3rd season and 30-8-7 in his 5th season.
Kobe averaged 23-6-5 in his 4th season and 25-6-6 in his 6th season.

Lebron's 4th season had much worse stats than the 3rd or 5th because that was the year he started struggling with back spasms, missing several games due to the spasms and playing at under 100% for many others.

Randomly comparing Lebron's 4th season to Kobe's 5th season was the ONLY way it could look like Kobe was ever close to Lebron's development by a stat argument.

That's the kind of deception Kobestans like to use. I mean, you can say that stats don't matter, but they why include them and why go to the deceptive lengths to compare different seasons?


Here are the actual year-by-year numbers for the first 8 seasons. Lebron obviously started out much better than Kobe...when did Kobe supposedly pass him?

(all shooting percentages are eFG% just to be fair and save space)


Lebron rookie season (18):21-6-6 on 44%
Kobe rookie season (18): 8-2-1 on 48%

Lebron's 2nd season (19): 27-7-7 on 50%
Kobe's 2nd season: (19): 15-3-3 on 47%

Lebron's 3rd season (20): 31-7-7 on 51%
Kobe's 3rd season: (20): 20-5-4 on 48%

Lebron's 4th season (21): 27-7-6 on 52%
Kobe's 4th season (21): 23-6-5 on 49%

Lebron's 5th season (22): 30-8-7 on 53%
Kobe's 5th season (22): 29-6-5 on 48%

Lebron's 6th season (23): 28-8-7 on 55%
Kobe's 6th season (23): 25-6-6 on 48%

Lebron's 7th season (24): 30-7-9 on 54%
Kobe's 7th season (24): 30-7-6 on 48%

Lebron's 8th season (25): 27-8-7 on 55%
Kobe's 8th season (25): 24-6-5 on 47%

They both were 22 that's why there was a comparison. Lebron was not only the 1st option but had free reign to what whatever he felt on those early Cavs teams. Kobe was still a second option and the ball preferably went to Shaq. Lebron was sharing with who? Mo Williams? His father Delenta west? Keisha Cole ex-husband? Kobe averaged 28 in 2001. Take away Shaq and kobe legit puts up 32 easily don't bother posting no stat that says Kobe and Shaq shared the ball either. Won't matter. Lebron didn't have no Shaq to win all 3 final mvps, demand double teams, and averaged 32+

 

[MalikX]

3-5

This "comparison" has been over Literally in every industry, the insights of those working within it outweigh the fat fukks watching at home but in professional basketball, all the legends, former players, current players and coaches are wrong. This is like saying everyone from CNN, MSNBC, WaPo, NYTimes, Bloomberg and other MSM sites are wrong and some nikka online knows more about what's going on in Washington, Wall Street and the World at large. That's LeBron stan logic. Homie can't score a single bucket in high pressure situations and passes to 8th options to make them save their season hopes yet he's better than a nikka that's been an assassin his entire career.

Kobe's first three titles as the man. He won 2. LeBron's first three titles as the man, he lost 2.

 

[backbreaker65]

What did your eyes tell you? People always propping up stats as the marker, all that, lets me know you didn't see either at that age. I get stats is a cool little talking point but what did your eyes tell you.

 

[Draje]

Talk about completing flipping the argument on it's head. I absolutely agree with you that LeBron hampered Bosh and Wade stats when they played together. Both saw their numbers plummet. While Kobe did a much better job of letting Gasol and Odom play their natural game. Their numbers (especially Gasol) stayed about where it was when he played in Memphis.

I was talking about these players BEFORE they got paired up with Kobe and LeBron. Wade and Bosh were vastly superior to Gasol and Odom. Why don't you compare those 4 guys career stats before they teammed up with Kobe and LeBron?

You changed this up cause you know that Wade and Bosh were vastly superior to Gasol and Odom before they played with LeBron. LeBron is just a guy who can only play one way. One in which he dominates the ball and forces the other stars to change their game to fit him. That is how Bosh became a 3-point shooter rather than the post-up big he used to be. And how Wade went from dominant on ball player to backdoor cutter.

Pre-LeBron Wade and Bosh >>> Pre-Kobe Gasol and Odom

You see when you play with LeBron, your personal stats plummet because LeBron is all about his numbers and its on his teammates to sacrifice what they typically do to placate him.

That's a horrible argument because Wade and Bosh dealt with injuries during their time with Lebron (Bosh ripped groin, Wade's knee drain, etc) until Father Time came. Lebron got them at the end of their prime and Phil got them in the middle of theirs. Only difference.

Lamar was dealing with injuries and a crappy franchise in the clippers, Gasol also had injuries as he was coming into his prime and had made the playoffs in a loaded West with Battier as his 2nd option, etc.

 

[Larry Lambo]

I watched both and I'd say I was a little more impressed with Bron at that age, but it's very close.

 

[FunkDoc1112]

Bullshyt. Let's pull up numbers for Kobe and Lebron's 2nd and 3rd option during their respective three peats then you tell me which one you'd take.

Wade-

22.8 (46%) / 5.2 REB / 4.3 AST (3 TOV) / 1.7 STLS / 1.3 BLKS - 1st Ring

15.9 PPG (46%) / 4.6 REB / 4.8 AST (2.6 TOV) / 1.7 STL / 1 BLK - 2nd Ring

2nd option Gasol:

18.3 PPG (58%) / 10.8 REB / 2.5 AST (1.9 TOV) / .8 STLS / 2 BLKS - 1st ring

19.6 PPG (52%) / 11.1 REB / 3.5 AST (1.9 TOV) / .4 STL / 2.1 BLKS

3rd Option Bosh:

14 PPG (49%) / 7.8 REB / .6 AST (1.4 TOV) / .4 STL / 1 BLK - 1st ring

12.1 (45%) / 7.3 REB / 1.5 AST (1.2 TOV) / 1 STL / 1.6 BLK 2nd ring

3rd option Odom:

12.3 (52%) / 9.1 REB / 1.8 AST (1.7 TOV) / .7 STL / 1.3 BLK - 1st ring

9.7 (46%) / 8.6 REB / 2 AST (1.2 TOV) / .7 STL / .9 BLK 2nd ring

So you wanna tell me that Bosh and Wade's statlines are drastically superior to Odom's and Gasol's? Mind you, you also say that the stats in the East are inflated because the East is so weak and that's why Lebron's playoff numbers don't matter.

This reminded me of how bad Wade's knee was fukked up in 2013. It didn't matter much against Milwaukee and Chicago but dude was looking as fukk against Indiana. Hell, Wade AND Bosh were trash in that pacers series. It was basically LeBron carrying them, and Haslem coming through in a couple moments.

 

[FunkDoc1112]

That's a horrible argument because Wade and Bosh dealt with injuries during their time with Lebron (Bosh ripped groin, Wade's knee drain, etc) until Father Time came. Lebron got them at the end of their prime and Phil got them in the middle of theirs. Only difference.

Lamar was dealing with injuries and a crappy franchise in the clippers, Gasol also had injuries as he was coming into his prime and had made the playoffs in a loaded West with Battier as his 2nd option, etc.

For real, I knew he'd come with the typical Kobe stan "LeBron marginalized them!" argument. Wade's overall numbers in 2012 were bogged down by the injuries but when he got his knee drained against Indiana, he and LeBron looked like the best 1-2 punch since Shaq and Kobe until midway through the Boston series when his knee started acting up again.

Wade was only fully in his prime that first season with LeBron and the few times he was healthy in 2012. In 2013 he became a different player and still managed to put up 22PPG/52% FG until he fukked up his knee against Boston towards the end of the season. And Bosh actually got better with his time with the Heat...even though his raw stats went down after 2011 he fit within the team much better and LeBron's supposed marginalization of him resulted inj him being a deadly mid-range and even 3-point shooter whose role was a curcial part of Miami's offense.

 

[Swagnificent]

You trying to say Odom and gas are up there with Wade and bosh? Lmaoo lord

There's a reason he will only compare numbers when they played with LeBron. He knows that their pre-LeBron stats shyt all over Odom and Gasol.

Dude is just hiding behind the fact LeBron makes his all-star teammates worse statistically because he's so ball dominant and forces everyone else to play his style.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

They both were 22 that's why there was a comparison.

Except that Lebron was actually 21 when that season started. They weren't both 22.

It is a HUGE stretch to say that you're comparing Lebron's 4th season, one of his worst statistically, to Kobe's 5th season, the best of his first 6, just because "they were both 22 by the end of the season."

Lebron was not only the 1st option but had free reign to what whatever he felt on those early Cavs teams. Kobe was still a second option and the ball preferably went to Shaq. Lebron was sharing with who? Mo Williams? His father Delenta west?

Shows how ignorant you are on the subject matter since neither Mo nor Delonte was on the Cavs in 2007. Delonte didn't come until the end of 2008, Mo didn't come until 2009. Cavs were actually even worse than you thought. I love arguing "eye test" with people who aren't even aware of which players were in the game.

Kobe averaged 28 in 2001. Take away Shaq and kobe legit puts up 32 easily don't bother posting no stat that says Kobe and Shaq shared the ball either. Won't matter. Lebron didn't have no Shaq to win all 3 final mvps, demand double teams, and averaged 32+

How stupid is that argument? Shaq is drawing double-teams and that's supposed to make Kobe's statistics worse?

Kobe took 22.2 shots/game in 2001, the year the OP used.
Lebron took 20.8 shots/game in 2007, the year the OP used.

Lebron only had ONE season in his entire career where he took as many shots as Kobe did in 2001...and Kobe took even more, 23.5, in 2003!


So you complain that Kobe was "sharing the ball" with Shaq, even though Kobe took MORE shots than Lebron, was going to be MORE open than Lebron, and had BETTER opportunities for assists than Lebron.

Try to use the fact that Lebron had no one to pass to and no one to draw defenders off him as an argument for why his stats are so much better.

 

[Swagnificent]

You're literally a retarded pedophile and have no idea what you're talking about outside of when you're telling us what young prospects you find attractive.

Mutombo was probably closer to 280 at the point and was an awesome post defender. The reason Shaq dominated him is because Shaq was amazing AND a giant athletic freak.

Stick to commenting on how attracted you are to young boys n girls because this sports stuff isnt for you

sure...this guy was 280? Just look at him next to 325 lbs Shaq.

If Mutombo was 280, I guess that makes Shaq 400 lbs? Right?

FTR, Mutombo was listed at 7'2" 245 lbs. Dikembe Mutombo Stats | Basketball-Reference.com

Shaq was 7'1" 325. Obviously when you outweigh a guy by 80 lbs. its easy to dominate him in the low block.