Kevin Garnett top 20 player of all time?

[GoddamnyamanProf]

when paul pierce was surrounded by bums and mcgrady was surrounded by bums, what happened? mcgrady was a consensus top 5 player and pierce wasn't in his class. mcgrady would have done the same thing and more with kg/rondo/ray allen

woulda coulda shoulda

Didn't.

Life ain't fair. The end.

 

[GreatestLaker]

I've been watching since 1991.

And some people considered him better than the players you listed in 2004. I disagree with THOSE people. Wholeheartedly.

I'm not saying he wasn't a great player btw.

Then you are just an idiot as I suspected. Pierce over KG?

 

[Houston911]

woulda coulda shoulda

Didn't.

Life ain't fair. The end.

you're not making any sense at all

that "coulda woulda shoulda" shyt sounds cool if youre talking about grant hill or penny

but tracy mcgrady has more accolades than paul pierce in spite of the injuries

he was better than pierce for damn near a decade

the end

 

[GreatestLaker]

In 5 years I won't be surprised if people start saying Westbrook>> Kobe.

Pierce over KG?

Let me guess Ray Allen is better than KG too?

 

[Saysumthinfunnymike]

What i meant was T-Mac's teams never went anywhere.

When T-Mac was averaging 32 a game what did the Magic do? They went 42-40 and lost in the first round and they did that every year except the year they didn't make the playoffs at all.

Pierce's teams sucked as well. I watched the games. I know how shytty those teams were but with that said he at least got out of the first round a couple times and they made the Eastern Finals while he was the leading scorer.

How about Pierce in the '08 playoffs? Are we going to discount how well he played against LeBron and Kobe and the Finals MVP? You know, that type of play deserves the praise it receives.

It's not Pierce's fault that he is still playing at an all-star level and T-Mac has broken down. At one point T-Mac was the better individual player but his teams also never did anything. GreatestLaker, I know the East sucked back then and all but the Celtics at least made the East Finals and Pierce was still surrounded by scrubs outside of Walker. T-Mac played in the same East and never advanced the team. The Bucks trio did it, Carter advanced on the Raptors, Iverson took his team to the finals.. Kidd went back-to-back... T-Mac did nothing.

 

[GreatestLaker]

What i meant was T-Mac's teams never went anywhere.

When T-Mac was averaging 32 a game what did the Magic do? They went 42-40 and lost in the first round and they did that every year except the year they didn't make the playoffs at all.

Pierce's teams sucked as well. I watched the games. I know how shytty those teams were but with that said he at least got out of the first round a couple times and they made the Eastern Finals while he was the leading scorer.

How about Pierce in the '08 playoffs? Are we going to discount how well he played against LeBron and Kobe and the Finals MVP? You know, that type of play deserves the praise it receives.

Pierce had better teams than Tracy had in Orlando. That's not even debatable. The best players Tracy ever had in Orlando was a second year Mike Miller and a rookie Drew Gooden. Pierce at least had an all-star player in Antonie Walker. No matter how dumb he was.

You don't think a healthy Tracy would have held his own against Lebron and Kobe? Especially if he had James Posey, Rondo, Perkins, KG, Tony Allen, and Ray Allen backing him up? Come on man.

 

[Saysumthinfunnymike]

How do I know what he would have done? I don't get into those debates. T-Mac never advanced in the weak east, how can I be assured that he would have raised his game against LeBron or Kobe?

 

[GreatestLaker]

How do I know what he would have done? I don't get into those debates. T-Mac never advanced in the weak east, how can I be assured that he would have raised his game against LeBron or Kobe?

Pierce averaged 19 points in those Finals while being guarded by Luke Walton and Vlad Rad. You really trying to say Tracy couldn't have done the same?

 

[Saysumthinfunnymike]

A lot of people have a habit of discounting defense. Pierce played very well on both ends. He put up 41 against LeBron's 45 in their classic... He is praised so much for his play in '08 because he was playing very very well against the top players in the entire league. I don't know what T-Mac would have done.

 

[Houston911]

How do I know what he would have done? I don't get into those debates. T-Mac never advanced in the weak east, how can I be assured that he would have raised his game against LeBron or Kobe?

pierce had an amazing game 7

but for the series against lebron he averaged 20 points/5 boards/3.5 assists on 40 fg%

A lot of people have a habit of discounting defense. Pierce played very well on both ends. He put up 41 against LeBron's 45 in their classic... He is praised so much for his play in '08 because he was playing very very well against the top players in the entire league.

nobody talked about paul pierce defense until he had the dpoy kevin garnett behind him though

kevin garnett today is flabby and sick, but he still anchors that defense. you think hes containing bron without garnett? you acting like he was defending bron on an island....nah, that was team defense

With KG on the court, the Celtics gave up 90.6 points/100 possessions (tops in the postseason among big-minute players)

With KG off the court, the Celtics gave up 118.5 points/100 possessions (worst in postseason among big-minute players)

and defensively.....tracy mcgrady gave the original blueprint for stopping dirk. he shut dirk down when the rockets played the mavs in the playoffs. he was the first player to do that. mcgrady did everything pierce could do but better.

 

[mastermind]

What i meant was T-Mac's teams never went anywhere.

right, like I said earlier "lazy sports fans and media types who attach too weight to titles"

When T-Mac was averaging 32 a game what did the Magic do? They went 42-40 and lost in the first round and they did that every year except the year they didn't make the playoffs at all.

Pierce's teams sucked as well. I watched the games. I know how shytty those teams were but with that said he at least got out of the first round a couple times and they made the Eastern Finals while he was the leading scorer.

did TMac ever have a teammate as good as Antoine Walker when he was in Orlando?

How about Pierce in the '08 playoffs? Are we going to discount how well he played against LeBron and Kobe and the Finals MVP? You know, that type of play deserves the praise it receives.

no one is discounting that at all. What I said is "TMac was a better player than Pierce, but Pierce has had the better career"

Pierce will be in the HOF before Tmac, and deservedly. It still doesnt mean that TMac wasnt a better player than Pierce.

It's not Pierce's fault that he is still playing at an all-star level and T-Mac has broken down.

its not, and no one has blamed Pierce for that or taken him down a peg.

At one point T-Mac was the better individual player

and thats it

and that point was 7 straight seasons in both players primes.

 

[Saysumthinfunnymike]

We know how much KG means to this team. When he sits, the defense takes a massive hit. Ray was hitting clutch threes, Posey, PJ Brown, it was a stacked team no doubt about it but if Pierce doesn't have that kind of performance the Cavs are moving on. If he doesn't play as well on both ends in that series and against the Lakers the C's don't win the title. That's why he's been overrated and I agree he has been overrated by some people.. but he did have an amazing playoff run. That's what happens in American sports. When you excel when it matters the most your legend is created. Look at Jeter.

 

[GreatestLaker]

A lot of people have a habit of discounting defense. Pierce played very well on both ends. He put up 41 against LeBron's 45 in their classic... He is praised so much for his play in '08 because he was playing very very well against the top players in the entire league. I don't know what T-Mac would have done.

Pierce was a terrible defender before KG went over to Boston. Tracy was always a solid defender. You trying to tell me Ray and Pierce raised their level of defense. But Tracy couldn't? Tracy in that defensive system? Pierce barely guarded those players anyway. It was Posey that was the main defender on those players. Quit with this revisionist history bullshyt.

Pierce was easily replaceable. Why nikkas acting like 19/5/4 is dominant now?

 

[GoddamnyamanProf]

you're not making any sense at all

that "coulda woulda shoulda" shyt sounds cool if youre talking about grant hill or penny

but tracy mcgrady has more accolades than paul pierce in spite of the injuries

he was better than pierce for damn near a decade

the end

What's the difference between Tmac and Grant Hill? A couple scoring titles on terrible teams? Congratulations.

Maybe we can talk about shyt that actually matters as well?

Better career achievements - Pierce. Ring and Finals MVP > anything Tracy did

Better career numbers - Pierce. While maintaining more longevity and playing at an elite level much longer than Tmac.

Everything else amounts to semantics

Think about how they will be remembered. Think about how they are considered today. Yup, now watch that difference amplify as the years pass

 

[Saysumthinfunnymike]

Terrible is a strong word. KG upped everyone's defense but they all made a commitment on that end. That is part of KG's greatness. But Pierce still made that commitment unlike Melo who still doesn't get it..

edit: The funny part though is Pierce can still go. Who is to say he won't do what he's doing now for another 3 years?