Joe Montana is still the GOAT in my eyes

[Originalman]

Also OP. I will say in all my years watching the NFL (before I boycotted the league from 2016 until present). Montana was the scariest QB I had ever seen.

Not because of his physical skills or accuracy or ability to win. Dude was the only QB I had seen who could literally get killed every play over and over again. Sacked, blindsided and crushed. Yet the shyt never rattled him unlike most QBs pressured, getting blitzed and getting hit didn't make him get happy feet or throw INTs. You knew like Freddy Krueger Montana was gonna come back from the dead and kill your team in the 4th qrt.

I will never forget how the Eagles with Buddy Ryan blitzed Montana like crazy and beat him to a bloody pulp. Buddy was crazy and wanted to kill Montana (I believe he even had a bounty on Montana). Think the eagles had a 21 - 0 lead. Yet Buddy kept blitzing Montana sacking him over and over. Yet when the 4th qtr came here comes Montana standing in the pocket getting crushed throwing lasers up and down the field to Rice bringing the 49ers back to win the game.

That was typical Montana. Basically you had to hurt him and knock him out the game to beat the 49ers more times than not and especially in the playoffs.

Remember the two times the Giants won the Super bowl and beat the 49ers in the playoffs they hurt Montana. The others times they played them they lost and Montana finished the game. In 86 the Giants knocked him out the game breaking Montana's back in the playoff game and in the 91 playoffs the Giants broke Montana's sternum and finger on his throwing hand knocking him out the game.

 

[JLova]

He didn't need to. He faced the 85 bears in the regular season that year (week 6) at candlestick and lost 26 to 10.

But there is a key difference in the physicality of how QBs were hit, how OLs actually got called for holding on pass plays and how WRs were not allowed to run free due to being destroyed going across the middle. When you compare the 80s and 90s vs the Modern NFL.

Just look how many great NFL QBs retired in their 30s due to injuries (Aikman concussion, Montana concussion and plus back, Young concussion, Elway Knee Bone on Bone and etc and etc and etc). Where as now all these great QBs end up retiring because well they just tired of playing. Very few retire due to injuries. I mean Brees, Brady, Big Ben, Rivers for example all retired in good health and didn't have to retire because of injuries. Not only that these dudes played/named starter until their very late 30s or early 40s which was basically unheard of back in the day outside of Blanda and Moon (and maybe a couple others over 40 years).

Yet that shyt is common now for QBs playing into their 40s (especially the white ones because they are even more protected than the black QBs). That is all because you are no longer able to be physical with them.

I don't know how cats can't admit that the physicality today vs back then is night and day. QBs were getting murdered. They still get hit now but a lot of these cats finishing games with clean jerseys.

 

[Originalman]

I don't know how cats can't admit that the physicality today vs back then is night and day. QBs were getting murdered. They still get hit now but a lot of these cats finishing games with clean jerseys.

Breh Aikman and Young careers ending on hits. Like literally ended on 1 play during a game and that was it for them. You can tell its night and day today in the game just off the fact that there are no passes now that the QB shouldn't make (in terms of getting his WR killed). Back in the day there were certain passes that a QB knew not to throw cause his WR would get killed.

Its not like that anymore and is the reason that QBs throw all these passes into double and triple coverage that would be ill advised back in the day. Not because of an INT but because your WR would get his bell run.

Another example of the physicality. Randall Cunningham gets his ACL blown out on a low hit while in the pocket passing. He comes back plays a year and two year after and gets his leg broken while passing in the pocket on another low hit (which pretty much ended his career with the eagles until Denny Green calls him to play with the Vikings).

 

[JLova]

Breh Aikman and Young careers ending on hits. Like literally ended on 1 play during a game and that was it for them. You can tell its night today in the game just off the fact that there are no passes now that the QB shouldn't make (in terms of getting his WR killed). Back in the day there were certain passes that a QB knew not to throw cause his WR would get killed.

Its not like that anymore and is the reason that QBs throw all these passes into double and triple coverage that would be ill advised back in the day. Not because of an INT but because you WR would get his bell run.

Another example of the physicality. Randall Cunningham gets his ACL blown out on a low hit while in the pocket passing. He comes back plays a year and two year after and gets his leg broken while passing in the pocket on another low hit (which pretty much ended his career with the eagles until Denny Green calls him to play with the Vikings).

So many rule changes to protect QBs (which is a good thing) and cats acting like life as a QB in the pocket hasn't changed.

 

[Saysumthinfunnymike]

So many rule changes to protect QBs (which is a good thing) and cats acting like life as a QB in the pocket hasn't changed.

They ran away from my posts. They didn't want to discuss how out of the top 50 passing seasons 43 have come in the last ten years. They cannot debate. They are scared to debate me.

 

[premier58]

They ran away from my posts. They didn't want to discuss how out of the top 50 passing seasons 43 have come in the last ten years. They cannot debate. They are scared to debate me.

Not me, i readily acknowledge how inflated numbers have been since 2011. But im not gonna change my viewpoint on Joe being fragile. He got hurt because if his slight build not becsuse if the eras brutality. Montana was not out there getting condistently hit like that. He had a great OLine and his headcoack enphasized short timing routes. Using short passes as an extension of the run. Do me a favor and show all these shortened careers for me. Off top Starr played 15 years, Tarkenton played 18, Bradshaw plsyed 14, Simms played 15, Montana played 16, Elway played 16, Marino played 17, Favre played 20, Esiason played 15, Bledsoe played 14 years, Kelly played 15 years(12 NFL, 3 USFL). Moon played 17 years in the NFL. Vinny Testsverde played 20 years, Kerry Collins played 17 years. All this off the top of my head. Where are all the shortened QB careers coming from?? Johnny U played 18 years. Give me numerous examples of brutality prematurely ruining careers.

 

[Originalman]

They ran away from my posts. They didn't want to discuss how out of the top 50 passing seasons 43 have come in the last ten years. They cannot debate. They are scared to debate me.

Nothing but fact!

 

[JLova]

They ran away from my posts. They didn't want to discuss how out of the top 50 passing seasons 43 have come in the last ten years. They cannot debate. They are scared to debate me.

QBs are just "better" now.

 

[mastermind]

They ran away from my posts. They didn't want to discuss how out of the top 50 passing seasons 43 have come in the last ten years. They cannot debate. They are scared to debate me.

Not a single person ran from this post. You are the most delusional poster on this board.

you can’t say passing numbers are inflated now but then pretend it wasn’t for inflated during Montana’s career as most of the passing records happened during that period after the ‘78 rule changes.

The data backs that up and you’ve all ran away from that.

 

[Originalman]

So many rule changes to protect QBs (which is a good thing) and cats acting like life as a QB in the pocket hasn't changed.

Yep tons of rules to inflate passing stats and scoring over the last 25 years (which is also a means to insure games are close late in the 4th qrt). From letting the tackles sit a little further back from the rest of the OL from the line of scrimmage in order to protect QBs on passing plays. To tightening up the 5 yard jam rule, to not allowing hitting receivers across the middle, to allow more holding by the OL on pass plays, to eliminating hits above the shoulders on QBs (and WRs), to eliminating defenders to T off on QBs when an INT is thrown, to eliminating throwing down a QB once the pass is thrown or hitting them after the pass is thrown, to only allowing defenders to hit QBs in the strike box (between shoulders and above the knees), allowing WRs pushed out of bounds can come back into the field of play as long as they he isn't the first to touch the ball (this rule didn't exist in the 80s and early 90s). To allowing intentional grounding by QBs which allowing this didn't exist in the 80s and very early 90s.

The rule changes wouldn't be so bad if the league actually applied it evenly. But they were never applied to everyone and the league would change the rules when it fit them and their narrative. I mean look at those dirty vicious head blows they allowed to happen to Cam in 2016 or the dirty late hits & helmet to helmet hits they allowed to Vick in 2010. Or how about those dirty below the knee hits that were allowed by the saints vs Farve in the 2010 Conference championship game to insure the Saints went to the superbowl and on and on again.

 

[Street Knowledge]

He didn't need to. He faced the 85 bears in the regular season that year (week 6) at candlestick and lost 26 to 10.

But there is a key difference in the physicality of how QBs were hit, how OLs actually got called for holding on pass plays and how WRs were not allowed to run free due to being destroyed going across the middle. When you compare the 80s and 90s vs the Modern NFL.

Just look how many great NFL QBs retired in their 30s due to injuries (Aikman concussion, Montana concussion and plus back, Young concussion, Elway Knee Bone on Bone and etc and etc and etc). Where as now all these great QBs end up retiring because well they just tired of playing. Very few retire due to injuries. I mean Brees, Brady, Big Ben, Rivers for example all retired in good health and didn't have to retire because of injuries. Not only that these dudes played/named starter until their very late 30s or early 40s which was basically unheard of back in the day outside of Blanda and Moon (and maybe a couple others over 40 years).

Yet that shyt is common now for QBs playing into their 40s (especially the white ones because they are even more protected than the black QBs). That is all because you are no longer able to be physical with them.

1.)Montana was frail for even his own time.

2.)The pass rushers today are bigger stronger and faster than at any point in history. Tell Joe burrow how protected he is

 

[Street Knowledge]

They ran away from my posts. They didn't want to discuss how out of the top 50 passing seasons 43 have come in the last ten years. They cannot debate. They are scared to debate me.

You never acknowledge the Advantages QBs from the 1980’s had over their 50’s 60’s, 70’s predecessors due to rule changes of 1978 because it destroys your whole argument

 

[Street Knowledge]

QBs are just "better" now.

They are. Most of the Qbs of the past sucked. Go look at who the 85 bears Ran threw that season. Nothing but trash.

 

[premier58]

They are. Most of the Qbs of the past sucked. Go look at who the 85 bears Ran threw that season. Nothing but trash.

Hey man!! Dont talk shyt about Wade Wilson and Sean Salisbury, Dieter Brock, Jay Schroder and Gary Danielson!!! Like @mastermind keeps saying, no one hesitated to anoint Montana over guys like Staubach and Starr who had it way tougher than Joe did. Like Montana didnt have.the advantage of the most.innovative and influential offensive coach ever with a legendary coaching tree that has spawned succeas throughout the league. Walsh went and traded for Young while Montana was 30!! Because Joe was so frail!!! Contrary to belief, QBs werent.just having their careers ended left and right back then. Brett Favre probably took a worst shellacking vs the Saints in the Brady era, then he took in the vaunted 90s. If Montana got hit like Big Ben did by Bart Scott, he probably gets his sternum crushed!!! The Ray Lewis Ravens were soft?? The Deebo Steelers were soft?? The.Brian Dawkins Eagles were soft?? The Henderson and Stroud Jags were soft? The Strahan/Armstead NYGs were soft? The Briggs/Urlacher Bears were soft?? The Zach Thomas/Jason Tsylor Dolphins were soft?? The Seau/Harrison Chargers were soft? The Brooks/Sapp/Lynch Bucs were soft? Etc etc

 

[Saysumthinfunnymike]

You never acknowledge the Advantages QBs from the 1980’s had over their 50’s 60’s, 70’s predecessors due to rule changes of 1978 because it destroys your whole argument

Actually it doesn't "destroy" anything because there's two things going on at the same time. The rule changes helped inflate the stats and the rule changes also helped protect the QBs..

We are discussing stats + longevity. The stats are super inflated the past ten years.... that's a fact. The QB's are not getting hit the way they were in Montana's era... that's also a fact.

Both of those facts lead the more passing yards and more passing TDs and LESS injuries. That all helps the current era of QB.

Now go ahead and try to show me where the lie is. THAT's why the 3 of you ran away from the debate.