He would have a tough time making all nba or all star games today
Being considered the best PG in 2003 and in 2023 are two different things
Jason Kidd is one of the most overrated players ever
- Thread starter Street Knowledge
- Start date
Being considered the best PG in 2003 and in 2023 are two different things
threattonature
Veteran
Which teams did Kidd play on loaded with offensive talent around him? For instance Nash during his best stretch went from a team with Dirk, Finley, Antwan Jamison, Antoine Walker, Nick Van Exel to the Suns with Amare, Marion, Joe Johnson, Quentin Richardson, and Diaw.
Kidd’s team were more defensive teams who got the occasional fast break but otherwise preferred playing in the half court.
Two totally different team styles. Too many times people equate big stats with great PG play and miss the nuance of the position. The best point guards can keep everybody fed, know when to feed the different players to keep everybody happy, know when to run and push the pace and when to slow it down, how to maximize the players around him and how to attack defenses. Those were Kidd’s strengths.
It’s the same way people act like Isiah Thomas fell off during the championship years cause he fell back stats wise while perfectly running the team.
Bop Gun
Turn Me Loose, We Shall Overcome
You guys don't watch Basketball. Those early Dallas Teams were TERRIBLE. Dallas was a poorly ran Organization that botched all the Top Talents they had at that time. Anyway...
Jason Kidd goes to the Nets, one of the Youngest and Inexperienced teams in the NBA, and leads them to the Finals his first Two Seasons (Runs into Shaq & Kobe and then Duncan & Robinson). You need to know the Nets had ZERO Championship aspirations by the Media when NJ got him. Of course things changed. They had no answer to slowing down Shaq at all, but against the Spurs, the Nets were up by 8 in the 4th Quarter of Game 6, could've forced a Game 7 had they made better Defensive Coaching Decisions.
New Jersey refused to pay Kenyon Martin in 2004, and that was the downfall for the Nets as Championship Contenders from then on. Kidd, Carter and Richard Jefferson did the best they could without any help from the Bigs on their teams.
And that Game 7 Loss you bring up, that was actually a Choke Job by the Nets, as they were up by I believe 20 in the 1st Quarter. Just didn't have an answer for Detroit's Bigs.
And Kidd had MANY games where he missed Triple-Doubles because he had Single-Digit Points, because he simply didn't take a lot of shots. Later in his Career, well past his Prime, he almost had a 20/20/20 Game.
Easily one of the Greatest Players of All Time.
Jason Kidd goes to the Nets, one of the Youngest and Inexperienced teams in the NBA, and leads them to the Finals his first Two Seasons (Runs into Shaq & Kobe and then Duncan & Robinson). You need to know the Nets had ZERO Championship aspirations by the Media when NJ got him. Of course things changed. They had no answer to slowing down Shaq at all, but against the Spurs, the Nets were up by 8 in the 4th Quarter of Game 6, could've forced a Game 7 had they made better Defensive Coaching Decisions.
New Jersey refused to pay Kenyon Martin in 2004, and that was the downfall for the Nets as Championship Contenders from then on. Kidd, Carter and Richard Jefferson did the best they could without any help from the Bigs on their teams.
And that Game 7 Loss you bring up, that was actually a Choke Job by the Nets, as they were up by I believe 20 in the 1st Quarter. Just didn't have an answer for Detroit's Bigs.
And Kidd had MANY games where he missed Triple-Doubles because he had Single-Digit Points, because he simply didn't take a lot of shots. Later in his Career, well past his Prime, he almost had a 20/20/20 Game.
Easily one of the Greatest Players of All Time.
And was a joke on defense.
Probably the worst defensive player in NBA history.
I don't think it's right to steer the conversation to Jason Kidd's teammates when we're talking about Jason Kidd. That's a deflection in my opinion.
Kidd had 19 NBA seasons to show what his ceiling was. It wasn't very high.
Kidd could keep all his teammates "fed". But that doesn't mean he was great. And it certainly didn't mean his teams were very good, either. Trae Young led the NBA in total assists this past season. He kept his teammates fed. It didn't amount to anything.
We need to look at better ways to gauge greatness.
Facts
Next thing you know they'll be nikkas saying Jordan was Marshon Brooks with a gambling addiction
Basketball discourse is the worst it's ever been. It's all about narrative these days. Nothing about evaluating and breaking down the actual game
John Stockton is a better offensive player than Kidd so nothing would change
Without Nash, the Suns had the 21st-ranked offense in 2004 with Amar'e, Joe and Marion. Then Nash came the following season and they had the #1 offense.
Keep in mind, Nash ran the #1 offense for three-straight years prior to that in Dallas.
2002 - #1 offense (in Dallas)
2003 - #1 offense (in Dallas)
2004 - #1 offense (in Dallas)
2005 - #1 offense (first season in Phoenix)
2006 - #1 offense (starting lineup of Raja Bell, Kurt Thomas, Marion, Boris Diaw)
2007 - #1 offense
2008 - #2 offense
2009 - #2 offense
2010 - #1 offense.
He was running the best offense for multiple organizations, in multiple systems, with all different types of personnel, for about a decade.
This is a hilarious way of saying he wasn't good at running a high-level offense.
Is Jason Kidd better than Steph curry? I mean he’s a better defensive player rightAnd was a joke on defense.
Probably the worst defensive player in NBA history.
Where was this defense when he was getting destroyed by elite PG’s
Nah that's Karl Malone. Was considered by plenty of people the best power forward. I wouldn't even rank him over Barkley, yet alone guys like Dirk or KG who actually won a championship.
Malone was a definition of a regular season superstar.
Kidd wasn't that popular to be the most overrated guy. Even Vince was more overrated. All those flashy dunks, layups and all that, but couldn't get shyt done in playoffs in that same weak ass era in the eastern conference. Yet dude was finishing 1st in all star game votes.
Malone came into the league in '86, so I wouldn't really classify him as of the last 30 years.
But to that point, I wouldn't even say he's that overrated anymore, well, not in this context. You'll find plenty of discussion around his playoff failures and his limited scoring skillset. The more time goes on, the less his career is romanticized and folks have come around to him not being that good. Whereas Kidd's overrated here because of how his ability and career are framed. Notice how the majority are coming in here up in arms at the very thought of him being overrated, when if an exact replica of him existed today, he'd probably be one of the most shytted on players on this board.
Why is there always such opposition to talking about his limitations? Why is there always constant excuses for how he didn't do shyt in the West? Why is there always excuses of how he couldn't run a high-level offense?
UnQuantized
Superstar
Nash was always better to me
Yeah Nash was running elite offenses year in and year out no matter who was around him
