It's about to be 2021, can we all agree Jay is the greatest?

mobbinfms

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I didn't hear the album have no interest in hearing Jay-Z and Beyonce love album :shaq2:

Didn't know having a $250M grossing tour, being critically acclaimed, winning a Grammy, going Plat, having a top 15 single off a collab side project is a flop not to mention the shyt was only available for streaming on Tidal and was a surprise drop

:huhldup:

Only old rapper selling like Hov is Em, and we know why don't even know why you talking about flops and relevance :mjlol:
This is some grade A stanning right here :wow:
I’m shocked you can’t admit that album flopped.
They would have had the same tour with or without the album.
I don’t recall the album getting rave reviews.
Grammys don’t mean shyt. Ask eminem.
Going plat would have been a massive flop for a Jay and Bey joint album. The floor should have been at least triple plat. That being said, the album only went gold.
Apeshyt was 46 on the year end rap chart. 53 on the year end R&B/hip hop chart. That’s a massive flop for Jay and Beyonce.

surprise drops were the norm in 2018.
The album is on Spotify. And they had physicals. I know because I bought the CD the week the album dropped, as I recall.
 

JustCKing

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Going plat would have been a massive flop for a Jay and Bey joint album. The floor should have been at least triple plat.

I wouldn't call it a massive flop. A Jay Z/Beyonce album would've never been triple platinum. Joint albums rarely if ever have sales that match peak numbers of the artists individually. Joint albums tend to sell around the same or less than what the artists normally do individually.

At worst, it was a flop, but nowhere near massive.
 

ISO

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This is some grade A stanning right here :wow:
I’m shocked you can’t admit that album flopped.
They would have had the same tour with or without the album.
I don’t recall the album getting rave reviews.
Grammys don’t mean shyt. Ask eminem.
Going plat would have been a massive flop for a Jay and Bey joint album. The floor should have been at least triple plat. That being said, the album only went gold.
Apeshyt was 46 on the year end rap chart. 53 on the year end R&B/hip hop chart. That’s a massive flop for Jay and Beyonce.

surprise drops were the norm in 2018.
The album is on Spotify. And they had physicals. I know because I bought the CD the week the album dropped, as I recall.
Respectfully you don't know what you're talking about. Triple plat? Those side projects never do those type of numbers. Those joint projects never do the same their own projects. I can list a bunch of examples. It was a surprise drop was only available on Tidal that first week. Yeah, they had a monster tour because they're the G.O.A.T.'s. :dead:

Jay fans like me skipped the album entirely.

Apeshyt peaked at 13th on the Billboard 100, 230M views, Platinum.

It was critically acclaimed the shyt has an 80 on MetaCritic. This is not a flop. :comeon:
 

mobbinfms

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I wouldn't call it a massive flop. A Jay Z/Beyonce album would've never been triple platinum. Joint albums rarely if ever have sales that match peak numbers of the artists individually. Joint albums tend to sell around the same or less than what the artists normally do individually.

At worst, it was a flop, but nowhere near massive.
That’s a fair point. I would have expected them to at least be able to put up one massive single.
Also, in real time it was pretty shocking that the album didn’t debut at #1 and it felt like the end of an era.
 

mobbinfms

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Respectfully you don't know what you're talking about. Triple plat? Those side projects never do those type of numbers. Those joint projects never do the same their own projects. I can list a bunch of examples. It was a surprise drop was only available on Tidal that first week. Yeah, they had a monster tour because they're the G.O.A.T.'s. :dead:

Jay fans like me skipped the album entirely.

Apeshyt peaked at 13th on the Billboard 100, 230M views, Platinum.

It was critically acclaimed the shyt has an 80 on MetaCritic. This is not a flop. :comeon:
Like I said, that’s a fair point, but you can’t say they never work because it definitely worked for Jay in the past with Kanye.

a gold album is a flop.
Not debuting at #1 is a flop.
Peaking at #13 is nice, that’s a good week. But the song didn’t have legs. It came and went like the album did.
No massive single is a flop.
 

ISO

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It’s funny @ISO mentioned Lil Durk, NBA Youngboy, Lil Uzi Vert, for the new generation when all these people have been more influenced than Lil Wayne stylistically.
Yeah, yet they all paid tribute to Jay-Z in 2020. NBA is like 19. And it's a family tree. Lil Wayne is the biggest Jay-Z stan there is.


"The best rapper alive since the best rapper retired"
 
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ISO

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Like I said, that’s a fair point, but you can’t say they never work because it definitely worked for Jay in the past with Kanye.

a gold album is a flop.
Not debuting at #1 is a flop.
Peaking at #13 is nice, that’s a good week. But the song didn’t have legs. It came and went like the album did.
No massive single is a flop.
Didn't have legs yet the video accumulated over 200M views and went Platinum?

It was a side joint project those types of albums don't move the same amount of units as regular albums or get the same amount of promotion and marketing $ as their own solo efforts. Look at Lemonade sales. Look at 4:44 sales. Me as a male Jay fan I wasn't trying to hear an album with him and Beyonce so I never listened to that shyt. I might fukk around and listen to it later.

Look at Juice WRLD and Future WRLD on Drugs or Nas own Distant Relatives project with Damian Marley. Than look at the sales for their regular albums.
 

mobbinfms

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Didn't have legs yet the video accumulated over 200M views and went Platinum?
Yes. They have a year end chart to measure this. Apeshyt wasn’t in the top 100 year end Hot 100 chart. It was, at best, a moderately successful single. For Jay and Bey that’s a flop. Side project or not.
 

ISO

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That album made NO impact on the game. It sold a few records. It was considered dope. But that’s it. Illmatic had an impact on Nas’ hip hop peers when it dropped. RD sonically and thematically wasn’t a big break away from what artists was already doing for a couple years leading up to it.
All these nikkas that came after the Lupes, Pushas, Bennys you can see the influence that's the impact. What you've been seeing all these years of that album being sampled (it's one of the most sampled at this point) and nikkas making tribute projects and naming their own projects after it, that's making an impact.
 
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ISO

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Y’all act Jay was delivered from a stork or some shyt in 98’ lol


Convicts Talk About Why Jay Z's 'Reasonable Doubt' Is Still Every Hustler's Favorite Album
Jay Z's Reasonable Doubt turns 20 today and, in retrospect, its release in 1996 was exactly what East Coast hip-hop needed. Filled with vivid storytelling of street hustling, drug trafficking, and Brooklyn bravado in both its lyrics and skits, Hova's debut studio album brought kingpin tall tales to popular culture without sacrificing any authenticity in its portrait of the criminal underworld.

The theme of the record plays on movie scenes from Scarface and The Godfather, but also explores Jay Z's own forays in crime, which he officially left behind while recording the record. "I had been trying to hold on to two branches and I said, 'I'm going to put my all into the music, to make a legitimate life for myself,'" the icon told The Guardian in 2010. "I never turned back."

But even though he stopped selling drugs and living the street life after his debut, Jay never stopped hustling. Instead of signing to a major label, he started Roc-a-Fella Records with Dame Dash to release Reasonable Doubt, the type of entrepreneurial masterstroke that he'd repeat again and again over the next two decades. His business may have become legitimate, but Jay's do it yourself or no one will do it for youattitude paralleled the same stuff his was rapped about.

On Reasonable Doubt's 20th anniversary, we talked to the men who took Jay Z's words to heart, the gangsters and drug dealers who were living the life that Jay Z rhymed about. To them, this music was more than entertainment, it was their reality accurately depicted and shared on a global scale, set over DJ Premiere beats. To pay homage to the hip-hop classic, we spoke to a variety of prisoners who were incarcerated for some of the same crimes Hova detailed on his debut. We asked them to reminisce on the album's importance, and give us their take on why Jay Z is still your drug dealer's favorite rapper.

Walter "King Tut" Johnson
52-Years-Old from Cypress Hill Projects, Brooklyn
Serving a Life Sentence at FCI Otisville in New York for a Federal Three Strikes Law Conviction

Jay Z did his homework when he put Reasonable Doubt together. Jigga reached deep down into the core of his soul and pulled out the recordings of his life. He ingeniously described the people, places, and things that transformed him into the "Holy Grail" of the hood. He is the Sun Tzu of Brooklyn. He set out to confirm the value of his existence through music. The album was a dedication to those who questioned their own potential or allowed themselves to be trapped by the designs of life.

The record captivated the minds of its audience in the same manner that The Godfather and Scarface did. Once it touched your life, it left an indelible scar. Jay Z understood that there was a vicious dynamic being set in motion, and for him to truly enjoy the spoils of war, he would have to become invincible to the repercussions of the game. Jay Z understood that the world was large enough for those who play fair to play the game for real. He left those with small minds to the streets because they refused to use their creativity to expand and venture upon legitimate sources. He borrowed Machiavelli's mindset in The Prince: "A prince must be a lion to chase away wolves, but also be a fox to escape traps."

Jay Z wanted men to own their manhood and be able to envision themselves being owners and caretakers of their own lives, businesses, and properties. He wanted us to be prudent businessmen, instead of allowing other businessmen to profit off of our misery. To street dudes, Jay Z is the comrade that made it out of the game, and sacrificed everything just to dedicate a detailed description of how we can get out. In his music, he is giving us a map, keys, tools, and a path. Those who were true to the game recognize the gift that he has dedicated and pursue it with appreciation. Jay Z is the gatekeeper and through his lyrics, passion, love, and leadership we can rise above every disaster in our lives and find our true calling.

Andre Cooper
36-Years-Old from Chester, Pennsylvania
Serving Three Life Sentences at USP Hazelton in West Virginia for Racketeering, Drug Dealing, and Homicide Convictions

I'm making short-term goals when the weather folds/ just put away the leathers and put ice on the gold . Jigga's words were near and dear to me, as well as to all the young hustlers around the city. I was 16-years-old when Reasonable Doubt hit the scene and it just so happened to be the same time that I saw my first ten bands from pushing powder on the streets of Chester, Pennsylvania. 1996 was a crazy-but-memorable year. I say a memorable because we followed Jigga's lyrics to a T. I was trying to live what he was rapping about. But unfortunately, this would also be the same year that would mark the beginning of my 44-count federal racketeering indictment where the government said I agreed to form a cocaine enterprise with a few other 16-year-olds.

Before I got arrested, I was living it—from the drug dealing, the pistol action, partying, knocking down all the sexy young girls, to all the other aspects of a young rich nikka life. But I wanted to do it better since Jigga was showing us how to do it on an epic level. He kept us young hustlers and gangsters on our toes. When Jigga rapped about something, you knew it was official. So you either had to do it, or you made it your goal to acquire the money in order to cop it.

By me starting so young in the underworld, at the age of 14, and trying to live up to the likes of Jay Z, I got caught up in the streets. Which, eventually led me to where I sit today in a federal maximum-security prison with three life sentences. As the 20th anniversary of Reasonable Doubt comes up, I'll remember the great inspiration that Jigga gave me, but it's also a reminder of my downfall. I guess the album was sort of like a gift to Jigga, and a curse to the young gangsters from the slums who didn't do it right like he did.

"He brought the crack game to the rap game, and all the hustlers, street dudes, and gangsters was feeling what he said…"

Arthur "Plex" Pless
43-Years-Old from Miami, Florida
Serving a Life Sentence at USP Coleman II in Florida for a Drug Trafficking Conviction

I was hustling up in Jacksonville, Florida when I first heard Reasonable Doubt . I had these two hoes with me, we were in a rental van headed up to Georgia to pick up some bread, and one of the chicks put it in and cued it to "Ain't No nikka." I loved the groove, the lyrics were witty and tight, but I didn't really react to the song until Foxy came on. I was like, "Who is that?" The two chicks were like, "Jay Z."

When we got back to Jacksonville I ended up stealing the bytches' CD. I took it to the trap, and me and a couple of my partners vibed to it. Some of the homies were like, "Man, if you don't take that bullshyt out!" They weren't giving it a chance because Jay had that NY flow and the production was East Coast, but I kept pumping it, and pretty soon other nikka's started pumping it. Reason being, we were just figuring out that dude was "real."

Jay Z was the drug dealers' rapper. His lyrics embodied everything that nikkas in the game aspired to be, like in the song "Never Change":

Lost 92 bricks had to fall back/knocked a nikka off his feet/had to crawl back…Had A1 credit got more crack/From the 1st to the 15th gave it all back/If I'm not a hustler what you call that?

shyt like that speaks to the heart of street nikkas because if you've really been in the streets, you know it ain't all gravy. nikka's gonna take some losses, but you have to "crawl back." I don't know Jay, but I know the game. I lost my life to it. So I know he's either lived it or has been really close to it, because his numbers and accounts all add up.

John "Shakim Bio" Edwards
46-Years-Old from Jamaica, Queens, New York
Serving a Life Sentence at Mansfield Correctional Institution in Ohio for Aggravated Murder, Drug Trafficking, and Felony Assault Convictions

In the early 90s, I was knee deep in the streets, so my insight into Reasonable Doubtis different than most. At this point, Kool G Rap had the East Coast gangster rap on smash when it came to talking about the real street shyt. You had other rappers who spoke on street shyt too, but there was no real hustling rapper talking that talk until Jay Z got the East Coast, mainly New York, in a chokehold. The Reasonable Doubt LP changed the game.

Jay Z was coming from a hustler's point of view. He was painting pictures with words and nikka's in the streets had never heard it so raw like that. I heard Jay Z live on the radio doing an interview. When he spat a freestyle, I was convinced he was the shyt. Biggie was the King of New York, but Jay Z was knocking on the door with that heat. I got to hear a few more joints like "Ain't No N igga" featuring Foxy Brown and "Can I Live," but when I heard "Can't Knock the Hustle" and got to see the Hype Williams video for it, I was hooked. Jay was spitting the street shyt that hustlers knew and lived for.

I knew Jay was either right there in the mix or around those who played that game. In other words, he brought the crack game to the rap game, and all the hustlers, street dudes, and gangsters was feeling what he said and cosigned the lyrical content. It was authentic. I got almost every song he made that's available [to me in prison]—Jay Z's that dude.
:wow:

G-Herbo
Rapper, songwriter

I have a few. 4:44 because it was the inspiration behind my record “Street.” I made that record the day 4:44 dropped. You have to be a Hov fan to appreciate when he talked about stabbing his mans or shooting at his brother. For him to be able to talk about his story, if you’re a real Hov fan, you know already. And the beats were what he wanted, too. When you’re a rapper, you’re often trying to fit into the beat. He might go with this flow and stop and pause for ten seconds and switch it up. I never heard anyone do that sh*t before, so I have to try that. He really took the beats and made them what he wanted it to be. Made the beat sound different, making it skip, just off the bars he said. I could hear it. But the top three are Reasonable Doubt, American Gangster and Vol. 2...Hard Knock Life. 4:44 is my favorite for now.

 

Pop123

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If we ain’t talking about bullshyt that don’t got nothing to do with music. Than Pac is the easiest.

Pac had a 5 year rap career. Jay-z has a 24+ year rap career.
Jay-z is a better rapper than 2pac
Etc...

2pac is higher than Jay-z on my personal favorites list, I'm not even a Jay-z fan like that...but come on.
 

spliz

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NY all day..Da Stead & BK..
Pac had a 5 year rap career. Jay-z has a 24+ year rap career.
Jay-z is a better rapper than 2pac
Etc...

2pac is higher than Jay-z on my personal favorites list, I'm not even a Jay-z fan like that...but come on.
The fukk does this “but come on” mean like I’m saying some outlandish shyt? Pac within that 5 years. Dropped MORE than enough material to qualify. nikka still had albums dropping in 03 that was selling millions. Let’s get it straight here. Jay is a better TECHINICAL rapper but his music and voice ain’t touch the world the way PAC’s has and that’s about the only thing that has been said that’s factual in this thread. Nas has had a longer rap career than Jay and I think overall he’s a better lyricist but I don’t put him over Pac either. Jay is better at ONE ASPECT of rapping than Pac. Pac dropped 3 classic albums back to back. Pac’s career got cut short it wasn’t like he fell off or some shyt. But if we talking about general consensus shyt? Pac is raps ICON. He’s bigger than rap. U got the Pope quoting Pac lyrics. You tell me who’s the better lyricist. Pac had a song for damn near everything and every walk of life.
 
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