Is the PG position really worth a max contract?

[YourMajesty]

It just looks like all you need at the PG spot is someone that can negate and defend the other teams PG, hit some threes and get into the lane once in a while.

Didn't you say if Chris Paul was on the Pacers they win the title?

I can't agree with shytting on the PG position. A couple years ago nikkas was on here was saying PG was the best position in the league in terms of talent but now we don't need em?? I feel if your Top 3ish at your position, you deserve max dollars

 

[Poitier]

I don't think @Malta is necessarily saying that players like CP3 or Rose or Kyrie or Wall are BAD players to have, just that they may not be worth the same cap hit individually that players like Duncan/Dirk/KG/AI/TMac/Kobe/Wade/Bron/Shaq/Jordan would be.

And it's a very fair point. The game does have very talented PGs, but if you had only one "slot" to give a player a Max, lets say $20mil annually for this argument, you'd almost assuredly go the route of the big man or elite wing player over the elite PG.

Yeah, because those teams obviously decided to give their max contracts to elite PG over an elite wing or bigman, you know because there are a TON of those


Malta is usually insightful but this is a pretty damn inane thread

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

I wouldn't throw 20mil at AI, but I was just including him for argument's sake.

Probably a mistake since we're lowkey shytting on PGs in this thread

But TMac was an elite wing player, and a top 5 player in the world year to year at one point in his career. Not the Knicks TMac, but if you were a GM, you wouldn't give prime Orlando TMac a max over most elite PGs?

Remind me what playoff success TMac had over his career?

 

[Codeine Bryant]

Remind me what playoff success TMac had over his career?

Remind me what playoff success CP3 and Deron have had over their careers

This game goes both ways

 

[HiphopRelated]

Didn't you say if Chris Paul was on the Pacers they win the title?

I can't agree with shytting on the PG position. A couple years ago nikkas was on here was saying PG was the best position in the league in terms of talent but now we don't need em?? I feel if your Top 3ish at your position, you deserve max dollars

That's taking into account the rest of the roster though. Pacers have no natural playmakers, best is probably Stephenson but if you gotta give up Paul George for CP3, that statement's not true.

Hell the only move I legit worry about is Indy somehow working Rondo for Granger or some shyt.

 

[Malta]

Right, so it isn't his impact or his ability on why he doesn't deserve a max contract but his 'creaky ankles'? I fail to see why this example has any relevance to your argument. How's that any different to a player in any other position with the exact same susceptibility to injuring their ankles?

A PG that loses a step doesn't have size to fall back on, or be a defensive anchor. I'd be more mindful of injury history with them than any other position, a big man is always going to be big no matter what happens to their wheels. A PG doesn't transition into other positions as easily, your 6'9" SF loses a step? play him at the 4, your 6'2" PG loses a step and????

And D-Will, Westbrook, Rose, Paul and Wall wouldn't win a title in place of Parker with the same mentoring and system-play in 06-07 with an adjustable max contract to match $65m or within their limit?



San Antonio Spurs Total: $65,327,646

Tim Duncan .................. $17,429,672
Tony Parker ................. $9,450,000 = DWill/Westbrook/Rose/Paul/Wall - $15m
Manu Ginobili ............... $8,254,375
Brent Barry ................. $5,117,880
Bruce Bowen ................. $3,750,000
Robert Horry ................ $3,315,000
Melvin Ely .................. $3,303,813
Francisco Elson ............. $3,000,000
Michael Finley .............. $2,889,000
Fabricio Oberto ............. $2,500,000
Jackie Butler ............... $2,200,000
Matt Bonner ................. $2,000,000
Jacque Vaughn ............... $1,071,225 [minimum, counts $744,551]
Beno Udrih .................. $967,920
James White ................. $405,435

With Ely's $3.3m contract (6 games and 3.2 points) and Elson's $3m contract (70 games and 5 points) being replaceable both financially and production-wise, with bare-minimum market players and the soft cap allowing the Spurs to go over with the re-signing of their own FAs - taking on a max PG contract would have been affordable.

Taking on a max contract for the Spurs would have meant someone of their core 3 would be gone, so that was never an option for them. It's only affordable if you're ok with losing Duncan or Manu at some point in time, which is clearly not in their plans.

 

[dem bath salts]

I agree with this. But I do think 2011 Rose is the exception and i'm not a rose stan. I could justify that version of him getting the max and saw him winning titles with the right breaks. Those traditional PGs like CP3 and Rondo aren't worth the max to me. You need to be able to average 25ppg.

 

[Regular_P]

Ehh, I get the argument, but I don't completely agree. I think this could be applied to all positions. The best teams in the league have 3-5 good-great players on the roster.

Pacers - Paul George, David West, Roy Hibbert
Heat - LeBron, Wade, Bosh
Blazers - Lillard, Aldridge, Matthews/Batum
Thunder - Durant, Westbrook, Ibaka/Jackson
Spurs - Parker, Duncan, Ginobili, Leonard
Clippers - Paul & Griffin
Rockets - Harden, Howard and Parsons

To be honest, the Clippers probably overachieve with their roster and that's a testament to Chris Paul. That's a limited squad. All the other teams have multiple pieces. No single player can will an average group into title contenders.

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

Remind me what playoff success CP3 and Deron have had over their careers

This game goes both ways

EXACTLY. That's why at the end of the day, you need the right mix to contend for a title. You can give your 'max' contract to any position and if the right pieces aren't around him than you ain't gonna be winning shyt.

 

[Hersh]

if lance stephenson?played full time pg-- can he become a max player?

 

[Malta]

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HOUSTON WAS TRASH DEFENSIVELY...AN 8 SEED
KD SHOT 42% IN THE GRIZZ SERIES.

LOL ROSE NOT WINNING WITH 2-3 HOF.


​

So we just throw out the playoffs as a whole?


And the Heat with Rose in place of Bron is not winning anything, regardless of how many HOFers there are that team is not built with a 6'3" PG in mind.

Didn't you say if Chris Paul was on the Pacers they win the title?

Sure, they would and then next year they'd probably break up the team to avoid going into the luxury since his contract is escalating. They'd lose Stephenson, Watson and Scola all in a year.

I can't agree with shytting on the PG position. A couple years ago nikkas was on here was saying PG was the best position in the league in terms of talent but now we don't need em?? I feel if your Top 3ish at your position, you deserve max dollars

It's not shytting on the position, but being the best in talent means that it should be a buyers market and giving out a max contract is silly when you can get similar impact/production for much less.

 

[YourMajesty]

That's taking into account the rest of the roster though. Pacers have no natural playmakers, best is probably Stephenson but if you gotta give up Paul George for CP3, that statement's not true.

Hell the only move I legit worry about is Indy somehow working Rondo for Granger or some shyt.

I'm pretty sure he said sign CP3 to this current squad but throw Granger in the bushes. In the op he described George Hill to the tee and we all here agree, he the one holding the pacers back

 

[Malta]

EXACTLY. That's why at the end of the day, you need the right mix to contend for a title. You can give your 'max' contract to any position and if the right pieces aren't around him than you ain't gonna be winning shyt.

Yet, history says you're less likely to win when you build around a PG.


It's easier to build around the other positions than it is a PG, we can't just throw out the last 30+ years of NBA history.

 

[FlyRy]

Hell of an interesting question. Another question I have to ask along with that is what point guards have played with elite talent around them. Nash's Suns I think would've won a title if they didn't catch all those horrible breaks. Kidd's best teams involved Richard Jefferson and Kenyon Martin as the next best two players. Chris Paul's Hornets were always thin and we've all knocked Blake for being one-dimensional. So I wonder if having a great team makes your team average enough that you can't fall in to securing that second elite talent to fall in line with those point guards. I don't think having a great PG will ever outweigh having a dominant big but I think the PG position can elevate talent around them but only to a degree. So with that said I don't think I would make a PG my prime acquisition but if I have another great player I'd absolutely pay the max for a great PG.

the horrible luck the suns had for that stretch was just insane


joe johnson breaking his face and missing a lot of games against the spurs
nash busting his nose and missing the last minutes of the 4th qtr in game 1
amare missing the 06 season (still made wcf)
amare diaw getting suspended for leaving the bench and missing pivotal game 5 at home
the tim duncan soul ethering 3pointer
artest putting back kobes AIRBALL at the buzzer

im not sure they beat the celts in 2010 but for sure they'd have beat the 07 cavs.

 

[Codeine Bryant]

EXACTLY. That's why at the end of the day, you need the right mix to contend for a title. You can give your 'max' contract to any position and if the right pieces aren't around him than you ain't gonna be winning shyt.

I agree, but let's be honest. You need LESS talent around a guy like say... Dirk/Duncan/Shaq or Kobe/Wade/Bron to win a title than the talent you would need around a guy like.... CP3 or Deron or Rondo.

Those pass-first, distributing PGs can't be your number 1 option. They can't be your go-to guy. They can't be your highest paid player. Which is what I think is the point of this thread. All Dirk needed was a couple defensive players in Chandler and Marion and shooters. That was enough.

Now let's talk about what CP3 or Deron would need to have a playoff run including sweeping the lakers, beating OKC with harden-westbrook-durant, and then beating the Big 3 in Miami. Those dudes would still need another $15mil+ first option scorer. And then the argument is made that you could just do it with the scorer and use the money you spent on the elite PG to get complimentary pieces.