Investments in Education May Be Misdirected

[Serious]

Studies also show the contrary:

Getting Beneath the Veil of Effective Schools: Evidence from New York City



I've been in classes with 40 kids and classes with 10 students and a laptop for every student. The classroom with the laptops kids just fukk around with them and don't pay attention to w/e the instruction is. You can't force someone to learn.

I hate when someone in class sits in front of me with their laptop during lecture, then proceeds to check their email and FB

 

[theworldismine13]

Poor Schools or Poor Kids? : Education Next

Here is something I read on the subject. I'll pull out the parts that stood out to me.

again, i hope that article wasnt directed at me, first of all what you bolded basically admits that money is not the main issue

second of all what i said is that we should turn the public education system into charters and vouchers, so there is nobody left behind in my suggestion, the solution to scarcity of good school choices is to increase the number of choices not to limit the choices

 

[Serious]

Kumon and all the other Private after school tutoring classes here in California are filled to the brim with low income Indians, Vietnamese and Chinese students. Many parents work 2 jobs just to make sure their kids can stay in places like Kumon.

Again, it indicates the priorities and desires of the parents. The parents are willing to put in the extra effort to make sure their kids succeed.

And, in the areas heavily populated by Habesha Africans, they also have a strong presence in Tutoring programs and libraries.

No matter how much money you spend on students, the kids with a superior cultural upbringing are going to perform better. high Income or not.

The results from the California STAR exam pretty solidify the notion that cultural superiority helps more than income.

STAR Results for 2012 - Year 2012 (CA Dept of Education)

Asians and South East Asians ( represented by filipino) perform better than or on par with Whites regardless of economic status.

unfortunately he's right. I remember seeing this in elementary school. All the Korean kids went to tutoring programs right after school. Those Korean kids were on top of everything teachers threw at them. I was only able to keep up because my grandmother was a teacher at the time. She always had me doing school work afterschool and on weekends...

 

[theworldismine13]

You are it ignoring the plenty of studies that show increased resources= increased performance.

I've never denied any of that. All I said is, the fact that poor kids don't get this type of treatment at home only increases their need for extra resources at school. That's why studies show that poor students are most affected by extra resources. They are already starting for a disadvantage at home, if we expect them to perform equally to the kids who don't have these disadvantages then they are going to need more resources, in America these kids receive the least resources which compounds the inequality.

i think you are confused i have never called for cutting funding, and i was the one who said that poor students need to be addressed because of what is happening at home, that is my whole thesis that schools have to make up for what parents arent doing

and i was saying the money should go into people and institutions that are succeeding and if they are not succeeding they should be shut down and fired, the money that you save from shutting down bad schools can be put into new schools with people that have creative and innovative ideas and people that address cultural issues

the money should be put into a system that works, the money shouldn't go to a system that has already failed ie the public school system

 

[the mechanic]

This isn't a new observation

Amount of $ spent has little to do with actual achievement in schools.

I agree and disagree

The spending isnt helping in this case because socialistic education has one major flaw

Someone is spending someone elses money on yet another persons children

the incentives and accountability are all lost and prervrted...now if you look at private school numbers you will probably get a different curve

 

[MeachTheMonster]

again, i hope that article wasnt directed at me, first of all what you bolded basically admits that money is not the main issue

second of all what i said is that we should turn the public education system into charters and vouchers, so there is nobody left behind in my suggestion, the solution to scarcity of good school choices is to increase the number of choices not to limit the choices

It wasn't directed at you. But you continue to make a major flaw in logic. On one hand you say money doesn't matter. Then you say your plan is to turn the entire public educational system into a voucher program. Well that costs a lot of money.

The reason there isn't and can't be enough charter schools is due to money. If the goverment would allocate enough funds to the system in order to follow your plan, then it could work. But the way the public schooling system is currently being funded prevents your plan or any other reasonable plan from being feasible.

If we replace underfunded public schools with underfunded charter schools, nothing will change. And also school choice goes beyond just opening the schools. Resources will be needed in order to educate the parents on what it takes to get a quality education and transportation to get the kids to the school they choose.

Any way you look at it more resources are needed. Sure semantically money isn't the issue, it's a lack of resources. Unfortunaty in a capitalistic society, resources cost money.

 

[theworldismine13]

then how does money not matter?

increasing money is not directly related to increasing academic performance, that is the point, i wasnt saying we should cut funding or that you can run schools with no money

im actually for increasing funding, to fund charter schools and vouchers or public schools that are working

 

[MeachTheMonster]

i think you are confused i have never called for cutting funding, and i was the one who said that poor students need to be addressed because of what is happening at home, that is my whole thesis that schools have to make up for what parents arent doing

and i was saying the money should go into people and institutions that are succeeding and if they are not succeeding they should be shut down and fired, the money that you save from shutting down bad schools can be put into new schools with people that have creative and innovative ideas and people that address cultural issues

the money should be put into a system that works, the money shouldn't go to a system that has already failed ie the public school system

You haven't called for cutting funding, but you keep saying money is not the issue, yet your plan needs a bunch of money to succeed. You're just not making sense. Closing schools costs money not saves.

 

[theworldismine13]

It wasn't directed at you. But you continue to make a major flaw in logic. On one hand you say money doesn't matter. Then you say your plan is to turn the entire public educational system into a voucher program. Well that costs a lot of money.

The reason there isn't and can't be enough charter schools is due to money. If the goverment would allocate enough funds to the system in order to follow your plan, then it could work. But the way the public schooling system is currently being funded prevents your plan or any other reasonable plan from being feasible.

If we replace underfunded public schools with underfunded charter schools, nothing will change. And also school choice goes beyond just opening the schools. Resources will be needed in order to educate the parents on what it takes to get a quality education and transportation to get the kids to the school they choose.

Any way you look at it more resources are needed. Sure semantically money isn't the issue, it's a lack of resources. Unfortunaty in a capitalistic society, resources cost money.

i dont know where you are getting your numbers from, but you can get money for charters and vouchers by shutting down public schools

and if we need to put more money into it, than so be it, i have never called for cutting education funding so there isnt any contradiction, if more money has to be spent on transportation and education parents, then so be it, i dont know where you get the idea that that is a show stopper

 

[MeachTheMonster]

increasing money is not directly related to increasing academic performance, that is the point, i wasnt saying we should cut funding or that you can run schools with no money

im actually for increasing funding, to fund charter schools and vouchers or public schools that are working

Increasing resources is. How do we increase resources without increasing money?

Currently charter schools are being funded the same way as public schools are. In order for your plan or any other one to work, the way public schools are funded has to change.

 

[theworldismine13]

You haven't called for cutting funding, but you keep saying money is not the issue, yet your plan needs a bunch of money to succeed. You're just not making sense. Closing schools costs money not saves.

again i have no idea where you get the idea that closing schools cost money, thats a new one for me, if you use the same money from public schools and put the money into charters and vouchers you can save money or use the same amount of money

i dont see why you need any large increase in money

 

[theworldismine13]

Increasing resources is. How do we increase resources without increasing money?

Currently charter schools are being funded the same way as public schools are. In order for your plan or any other one to work, the way public schools are funded has to change.

i just answered that, by closing public schools, and also charter schools are and can be privately funded and private schools are privately funded

 

[MeachTheMonster]

i dont know where you are getting your numbers from, but you can get extra for charters and vouchers by shutting down public schools

and if we need to put more money into it, than so be it, i have never called for cutting education funding so there isnt any contradiction, if more money has to be spent on transportation and education parents, then so be it, i dont know where you get the idea that that is a show stopper

If you shut down a school that doesn't have enough money for its children and send those kids to another school, where does the money come from? Those kids still will be underfunded.

There is no more money to be put in it. And people use the studies you quote as a justification for that fact. It's a show stopper because the money is just not there. You do your own plan a disservice by pushing the idea that money doesn't matter, all while needing more money to make your plan a reality.

 

[MeachTheMonster]

i just answered that, by closing public schools, and also charter schools are and can be privately funded and private schools are privately funded

Again if you close an underfunded school in order to open a new school that new school will be underfunded as well.

 

[MeachTheMonster]

again i have no idea where you get the idea that closing schools cost money, thats a new one for me, if you use the same money from public schools and put the money into charters and vouchers you can save money or use the same amount of money

i dont see why you need any large increase in money

everything costs money.

You have to pay someone to plan the closing of the school. You have to pay someone to plan the opening of a school. You have to pay for new lesson plans. You have to pay for transportation. You have to pay to demolish the school or to fix it up. And that's only a few examples. If we take 50 kids that don't have enough money and send them to a new school with the same amount of money, they still won't have enough money. And that's without all of the added costs it would take to get them out of one school and in to the next.