in the early 90's if you weren't street/thug/calling women bytches, you weren't popping -Kid N Play

[hex]

uh oh, here we go again; wise intelligent explaining how hop changed in the early 90's
(TIME STAMPED- he gets the year wrong about FIGHT THE POWER, it was 1990 not 1992)

This has nothing to do with what you're saying though. He didn't say "PE, X Clan, Brand Nubian, and Kid N Play". Which one of those doesn't belong?

They were barely "on" to begin with....a pop/dance rap act same as Kwmane, Hammer, Red Head Kingpin, Vanilla Ice, etc. People fukked with them but they were never taken as seriously as "real" rappers. They were seen as corny, even at their peak, which is why they got phased out so quickly.

Matter of fact....the Wise Intelligent clip refutes what you're saying. People were obviously popping totally independent of the street shyt which is why they got approached on some "why aren't you rapping about this?" Nobody stepped to Kid N Play like "yeah, kick that gangster shyt". Come the fukk on breh.

Fred.

 

[mobbinfms]

das efx went platinum

and more important to the main stream society - the number 1 tv show for teens/young adults had dudes spitting their lyrics on the show

the fact that wealthy rich privilege white kids living in Beverly Hills were listening to poor black rough & rugged sewer nikkaz in Brooklyn

only meant you could make it, without street/thug/calling women bytches etc... Nonsense that was said

I thought Das was from Jersey? Or was it they were in school there when they got discovered at that talent show?

 

[mobbinfms]

Kid N Play NEVER went platinum and Thier highest charting record Funhouse took a year and some months just to go GOLD....

But in Thier Defense as I said earlier they had a Horrible camp...SELECT RECORDS and Hurby couldn't capitilize off Thier brand..

Mainly from personal experience SELECT RECORDS was horrible when it came to availability...

When I was at the station they took forever to service a record to ya and didn't do shyt to promote it..

Most record stores in the South and Midwest didn't have access to Thier product cause they failed to distribute alot of Thier artists such as UTFO AND CHUBB ROCK in these markets

I was a huge fan of the single "Bugging" by Whistle ..I was visiting down south for the summer and could hardly find that single even in the major chains like Peppermint records in ATL

And if an artist had an album you could forget it

SELECT released very few albums simply cause they didn't wanna secure a budget for them...they were good simply eating off of 12 inch singles like most NYC based labels at the time

As @hustlemania stated RECORD SALES wasn't a priority back then in the early 90s for rap music from the labels perspective

So Kid N Play wasn't MAXED OUT they actually operated in the RED

Ain't Gonna Hurt Nobody got a lot of radio play in the Bay, but I don't remember anyone having the tape.

 

[mobbinfms]

The irony is that the "gangsta flip" that happens in the early 90s, was largely because of NWA and Death Row bringing
so many white kids as consumers to Hip Hop.

They attracted white kids who wanted vicariously live stereotypical ghetto lives through their music.

That's also the time that white Viacom's MTV goes heavy on rap, and two white kids from Harvard launch The Source Magazine.

Groups like Whodini, who sold a million records to a completely black audience in the mid 80s, were wiped out because
of the tone and attitude change to appease the white fanbase seeking gang banging and drug dealing on wax and in videos.

Source was started in 88/89 I think?
And do you think that the Chronic and Doggystyle and All Eyez on Me were modified to appease a white audience?

 

[mobbinfms]

Hold up..I'm openly issuing a challenge:

Somebody please post an interview, article or anything from a nationally known industry insider be it a journalist, artist, producer anybody from that era who's said that hip hop DID NOT shift toward "gangsta" rap DURING the early 90's. And that this is a widely known myth or flat out lie.

This will cut down on all the anger and emotion and we can move the actual discussion forward

That's a completely different point though.

 

[mobbinfms]

This whole thing about Hip Hop being "more lyrical" in the 90s. Nope. The genre simply hit a pop base
through radio and videos.

There was very little in the early 90s as "lyrical" as Kane, Rakim, Melle Mel, The Treacherous Three and Spoonie Gee
on "New Rap Language," or LL on The Rock The Bells Remix (not the original). They were emcees, not rappers.

"Rappers" (not emcees) became big in the 90s to scare white parents and please their rebellious offspring.

 

[Larry Lambo]

Adapt or die

Heavy D in 1989



Heavy D in 1992



Heavy D in 1994




Kid N Play were not able to make this type of progression. I could post the same thing with Tribe, LL, Queen Latifah, and others. As a 10-12 year old kid, I was a Kid N Play fan, but they just didn't have what it took to have a long term impact in terms of music. Just a classic movie.

 

[Booker T Garvey]

It's not an either or though. As evidenced by all the non gangsta groups who were popping in the early 90s.

again, as others in this thread and other emcees and industry people have stated - that party/dance/bubble gum/overly political hip hop was on it's way out in the early 90's

there was a shift. this has been my argument the whole discussion, i'm simply providing evidence to support my stance.

He's saying that Afrocentric rap was purposefully buried by labels pushing gangsta rap. That's not what the kid n play documentary says.
And Moe Dee also doesn't say that all rappers, excluding gangsta rap, were unsuccessful.

he's giving you the perspective of the concious emcee, kid/kwame are giving the perspective of the lyrical/party emcee, but they're all saying the same thing

the early 90's is when the shift started to happen.

This has nothing to do with what you're saying though. He didn't say "PE, X Clan, Brand Nubian, and Kid N Play". Which one of those doesn't belong?

They were barely "on" to begin with....a pop/dance rap act same as Kwmane, Hammer, Red Head Kingpin, Vanilla Ice, etc. People fukked with them but they were never taken as seriously as "real" rappers. They were seen as corny, even at their peak, which is why they got phased out so quickly.

Matter of fact....the Wise Intelligent clip refutes what you're saying. People were obviously popping totally independent of the street shyt which is why they got approached on some "why aren't you rapping about this?" Nobody stepped to Kid N Play like "yeah, kick that gangster shyt". Come the fukk on breh.

Fred.

nikka what in the entire fukk are you talking about. he specifically says hip hop was conscious in the early 90's and the system turned it violent to keep us from progressing.

where are you getting redhead kingpin from this video!? who said anything about people telling kid n play to be "gangster"...you're adding your own shyt to the discussion. just stick to what's being talked about.

That's a completely different point though.

why? because YOU say so? we're 9 pages deep and not one of you have provided an article or video interview of somebody outside of the coli that co-signs these arguments

i'm still waiting on some type of evidence to support the notion that hip hop did NOT turn hardcore/street during the early 90's and that that whole argument is a myth

 

[Booker T Garvey]

I found the Kwame full episode - here are some quotes about 1992 for the NASTEE album:
Unsung: Kwame (FULL EPISODE). | egotripland.com

starts at about 23:35

UNSUNG NARRATOR: "but as kwame worked on his album, the musical landscape was shifting beneath his feat "

INDUSTRY GUY: "you had dr dre just dropped, biggie, craig mack ,naughty by nature, so now it's coming with a little harder edge"

KWAME: "My A&R at the time kevin rowan(?) sat me down and was like - you know, rap is changing, its getting a little different
maybe you wanna stop wearing the polka dots, get you some baggy jeans and some timbs..toughen it up a little bit"

this was the result:

 

[Larry Lambo]

^ Damn, that was trash. I don't even remember it. Kwame was a kid, so I could see him just following the lead instead of a finding his own zone.

 

[spliz]

Adapt or die

Heavy D in 1989



Heavy D in 1992



Heavy D in 1994




Kid N Play were not able to make this type of progression. I could post the same thing with Tribe, LL, Queen Latifah, and others. As a 10-12 year old kid, I was a Kid N Play fan, but they just didn't have what it took to have a long term impact in terms of music. Just a classic movie.

Heavy D in 97..

 

[Booker T Garvey]

^ Damn, that was trash. I don't even remember it. Kwame was a kid, so I could see him just following the lead instead of a finding his own zone.

he came back with a follow up album that actually had him cursing and rapping a little harder

but that was when that biggie line dropped and his career as a rapper was done.

that full episode is actually very good, I know cats are in their feelings over what he said in here but he seems like a real down to earth dude

 

[Ethnic Vagina Finder]

Kid n Play was stuck between 1988 amd 1991. Hip Hop changed in 1993. Their style couldn't adapt.

 

[LunaticVillage415]

I'm 34 and I used to record hella songs off the radio when I was about ten in 93'. Back then, they would play "Electric Relaxation", "C.R.E.A.M" and "Gin 'N Juice" back to back on the same station. There was a counterbalance back then more than today. Now everybody is all tatted up sipping lean thinking they're super thug. Back in the 90's, studio gangsterism was heavily policed. N.W.A.'s credibility mostly came from Eazy and his image and life story. But trying to be something you're not was not allowed back then. That's why Vanilla Ice's career ended the second he was exposed as a suburban cac.

And there's a lot of fake ass Hip Hop purist cacs here shytting on gangster rap. As someone who actually grew up in the inner city in Cali back in the early 90's, gangster rap was a cry for help when everyone ignored what was going on in the hood. Think about it, would you even know about places like East Side Long Beach, Compton and Vallejo if it wasn't for gangster rap? fukk no. Rappers talked about what goes on in the hood when the evening news didn't even report. Like Chuck D said, Hip Hop is the CNN of the ghetto.

 

[Jesus Bhrist]

nikkaz acting like C.Delores Tucker wasn't going on a crusade to end gangster Rap...Tupac was mentioned by Bob Dole lol

Yes there are anomalies were rappers who were conscious broke through & had successful careers or some platinum success but they are the EXCEPTIONS
And honestly its not just gangster rap but the whole lifestyle that encompasses said music, I think of THE ROOTS & their video for "what they do" in 96 where they had the crystal, rented luxury cars, rented mansions, Video Vixens & just basically parodied rap music up until to that point & i think that's what Kid N Play was getting at ....The music came with a script & the rappers became actors doing their best renditions & it was enormously profitable for the labels so it became the standard form of hip hop for years....I think of Charles Barkleys Campaign in the 90s "I'm Not a role model" basically putting the onus on the parents of the millions of children who idolize these larger than life characters but theres one thing he forgot to mention....Almost 70% of these kids in the black community are raised in single parent households, so who are the kids going to gravitate & look up ?? I digress rap music is a tool that has been weaponized & wielded against the black community