in the early 90's if you weren't street/thug/calling women bytches, you weren't popping -Kid N Play

[dora_da_destroyer]

But none of this has anything to do with this discussion - Urban radio stopped playing his music after '91 - this is not opinion, it's fact,

it's actually what that whole song is about, he knows he has BIG records, but they didn't connect with BLACK audiences

will was running on fumes by the time summertime dropped, that had urban radio on lock. The next album with jeff was garbage/forgettable and he was focusing more on acting. When he dropped MIIB, big willie style, and wild Wild West...all that got play on urban radio. You're making yourself look stupid by quoting a biased view from the artists when reality says different.

 

[spliz]

NO IT WASNT more lyrical.

a lot of these dudes that get tagged as lyrical that came out in the early '90s, would've got raped tryna diss somebody in the '80s.

chit, while we're on the topic of kid n play, Kid would've smoked some of these so-called lyrical early '90s rappers like Q-tip and guru.

I don't know why people are in here acting liked Kid didn't have bars and wasn't one of the better ghostwriters.




lemme back it up and give props to this post for setting it off.

one of the biggest myths in hip-hop.

dap + rep.







look at it like this

once you take the names out the hat, that were carry-overs from the mid-late '80s, and just deal with the early-90s class, the pool isn't that deep for lyricists.







just because they were the 2nd choice, and not as big as jazzy jeff & fresh prince, lets not act like kid n play weren't already big stars in hip-hop, 3 years before house party.

they still landed that role because of how popular they already were. lets not act like they were just randomly thrown into the movie.




he was making blockbuster movies when he started rapping again too.

whats the difference, besides the shift back to commercial & party records in '97?





I have do disagree on the consistent hits thing. I'd say he was consistent with it but maxed out after the 2nd album.

but yea, as talented as he was, he was a lil too gimmicky. and I hate how hes trying to ride the false narrative that biggie ended his career. he was already played out. biggie said that line for a reason.

The difference is that he was BUILDING his resume. He was transitioning from a TV star to a movie star. And like I said. The Fresh Prince shyt wasn't gonna fly in the 90s. He built his brand with his real name and came back and did his thing. And no. The 80s WERE NOT more lyrical. aside from a select few. But DEF not overall. That's some try hard shyt to say. And a lot of the 80s artist that did carry over to the 90s successfully were talented enough to adjust accordingly. u can argue that 80s rappers were better EMCEES. But def not more lyrical.

 

[IllmaticDelta]

NO IT WASNT more lyrical.

a lot of these dudes that get tagged as lyrical that came out in the early '90s, would've got raped tryna diss somebody in the '80s.

chit, while we're on the topic of kid n play, Kid would've smoked some of these so-called lyrical early '90s rappers like Q-tip and guru.

I don't know why people are in here acting like Kid didn't have bars and wasn't one of the better ghostwriters back then, just cuz he could dance.

stop it.....

 

[dora_da_destroyer]

These dudes also don't understand the concept of a "shift" either, like the shyt happened overnight

It started after the massive success of NWA's album in '91 and then the chronic and doggystyle - they weren't the ONLY rappers on the radio or going platinum - but they towered over everyone else and it created that shift TOWARD that gangster/harder sounding hip hop

Kwame's unsung goes more in depth on this shyt, Biggie said a line about his polka dots and it literally ended his career - he tried to come back as a "hard" rapper and it didn't work.

You're showing a lack of context in all your posts. Yea gangster rap got a lot of shine, but because it fit white peoples fantasy of ghetto porn - it validated those who felt we were ghetto savages and satisfied the suburban voyeur looking for a glimpse into "hood life", but it also offended many consumers of hip hop and older people, it also was the birth of west coast rap on a national level which was aided by the climate of gangs, crack, hood movies coming outta LA, and the riots. The white media had an infatuation with gangsta rap that put it on a pedestal, people who actually fukked with hip hop listened to and were knowledgeable about multiple facets and subgenres of the music.

 

[IllmaticDelta]

You're showing a lack of context in all your posts. Yea gangster rap got a lot of shine, but because it fit white peoples fantasy of ghetto porn - it validated those who felt we were ghetto savages and satisfied the suburban voyeur looking for a glimpse into "hood life", but it also offended many consumers of hip hop and older people, it also was the birth of west coast rap on a national level which was aided by the climate of gangs, crack, hood movies coming outta LA, and the riots. The white media had an infatuation with gangsta rap that put in on a pedestal, people who actually fukked with hip hop listened to and were knowledgeable about multiple facets and subgenres of the music.

facts

 

[Wacky D]

By 1993, Snoop, Dre, Outkast, Wu Tang, 2Pac, Black Moon, Redman, Gangstarr, were in the forefront so it started getting more gangsta but still some room for diversity because undercard acts like Conscious Sisters, Arrested Development, Pharcyde, Souls of Mischief were still getting play

how is arrested development undercard?

they were a bigger act than every name you mentioned ahead of them except dre & snoop, who they still sold more records than.

And no. The 80s WERE NOT more lyrical. aside from a select few. But DEF not overall. That's some try hard shyt to say. And a lot of the 80s artist that did carry over to the 90s successfully were talented enough to adjust accordingly. u can argue that 80s rappers were better EMCEES. But def not more lyrical.

who were all these great lyricists of the early '90s that were better than the '80s lyricists?

just to be clear, I'm strictly talking about the early '90s era that followed directly behind the '80s.

Bro I didn't skip over nothin. Yea. After Summertime it was over for FRESH PRINCE. But NOT WILL SMITH. Which is why I didn't even mention their album they dropped in 93. nikka commercialization of hip hop fukked shyt up far more than gangsta rap ever did. U had nikkas like Q Tip CONTRIBUTING to "gangsta rap" classics like The Infamous. With zero issue or insecurity about their music selling or how it would be received. Alotta true school rappers ain't TRULY have an issue making noise until the mid to late 90s at the height of commercialism at the time. And even that was exaggerated for the 90s. I fukkin HATE when rappers of the past overstated shyt to make excuses for their failures of fall offs. Truth is alotta nikkas time was up.

dog, youre basically agreeing with me about will smith. he was getting phased out, just like kid n play & the rest of them. he had the luxury of sticking to acting, and then using his Hollywood name to come back in '97 when bubblegum rap was making a resurgence.

and yea, I do agree that a lot of rappers' time was simply just up. I was just pointing out that will smith didn't stand the test of time either.

But that's a lack of versatility and adaptation to the times. Not necessarily on some "Oh, you gotta be gangsta"

There was a lane available and they didn't have to be street. Just step up the bars/music to what was in vogue.

But they still had that late 80's flow and style, and couldn't convert it over to what hip hop had evolved into.

Honestly, once they made "House Party" I don't think they had that hunger anymore, which pretty much happened to all rappers not named 2Pac.

nah bro. I already said that "gangsta" isn't the problem. the problem was that hardcore took over. not necessarily gangsta. and that phased out basically all of the elements that made kid n play stand out.

I wouldn't say that they still had a late '80s flow. the stuff they did for house party 3, was actually dope, witty and somewhat up-to-date.

their style was just a lil too upbeat/party-ish/playful. kinda like nice-n-smooth, who despite being name-dropped by someone in this thread, they were phased out around this time as well.

 

[FreshAIG]

how is arrested development undercard?

they were a bigger act than every name you mentioned ahead of them except dre & snoop, who they still sold more records than.






dog, youre basically agreeing with me about will smith. he was getting phased out, just like kid n play & the rest of them. he had the luxury of sticking to acting, and then using his Hollywood name to come back in '97 when bubblegum rap was making a resurgence.

and yea, I do agree that a lot of rappers' time was simply just up. I was just pointing out that will smith didn't stand the test of time either.





nah bro. I already said that "gangsta" isn't the problem. the problem was that hardcore took over. not necessarily gangsta. and that phased out basically all of the elements that made kid n play stand out.

I wouldn't say that they still had a late '80s flow. the stuff they did for house party 3, was actually dope, witty and somewhat up-to-date.

their style was just a lil too upbeat/party-ish/playful. kinda like nice-n-smooth, who despite being name-dropped by someone in this thread, they were phased out around this time as well.

Fair enough

 

[mobbinfms]

angsta rap that put in on a pedestal, people who actually fukked with hip hop listened to and were knowledgeable about multiple facets and subgenres of the music.

Yep. That's why I always say most people aren't really hip hop fans like that.
Just listening to what's popular in your area or on the radio is a whole different level.

 

[SAJ!!]

As well as......

Kid N Play need to get on with that garbage.

 

[Booker T Garvey]

dudes are hitting me with so many emotions that I have to clarify something: I know you cats are mad because this discussion is an attack on something you cats hold dear to your hearts
but I will NOT be responding with personal attacks
- when I close out this browser, you muthafukkas go away with it. It ain't that deep to me.
i'm putting all emotional attacks in pink font just to let you know i see you.

will was running on fumes by the time summertime dropped, that had urban radio on lock. The next album with jeff was garbage/forgettable and he was focusing more on acting. When he dropped MIIB, big willie style, and wild Wild West...all that got play on urban radio. You're making yourself look stupid by quoting a biased view from the artists when reality says different.

1) a dude from philly in here said that will smith got 0 play after summertime on the radio
2) I'm going by what will smith said that supports my argument - you're telling me that you'd tell will smith to his face that he is flat out wrong and/or lying.

You're showing a lack of context in all your posts. Yea gangster rap got a lot of shine

thank you. that's the only point I was making.

da hell you talking bout ???
i got love for kid n play in all BUT lets keep it 100 - during that 90's era their time was up


BUT
@hustlemania is absolutely right bout you
cause you really sounding like you don't know what da hell you talking bout

again, this is just what the man said - you're literally getting mad at me for quoting something that SOMEBODY ELSE SAID.

as it stands, Kid's statement is that certain sections of the hip hop community called them played out and corny

so we have to believe him. we don't know what people said to that man behind the scenes.

to sit up here and argue that YOU know what people said to him is kind of.....weird.

now you're just saying ANYTHING to win a debate online

 

[kingofnyc]

I can name a lot of artists that were more successful in this time period than tribe & outkast.
outkast didn't really get big until later years when andre started dressing in drag and they moved further into crossing genres.
and the tribe of the mid-90s is a different look than the tribe of the early '90s. I thought them dudes was some fakkits when they came out.
both groups conformed to the mid-90s.

I do agree that kid n play's time was up tho.

i know you ain't a outkast fan BUT stop it

and BTW

90's


ATCQ
'90 PITTPOR - gold
'91 low end theory - plat
'93 midnite marauders - plat
'96 BRL - plat


kast
'94 southernplayer.... - plat
'96 ATliens - 2x plat
'98 aquemini - 2x plat

you can name plenty of artists that's had success like this over a span of time ???

 

[IllmaticDelta]

it always bugged me out how chubb rock had three #1 rap singles on an album that I don't think even went gold.

not to mention the collabos he had out.

see, that's the main thing Im getting at. The people that were huge on the "black/urban charts" were not necessarily the same people who were huge on the overall top 40 (white charts). For this discussion on HipHop in it's totality, the only consumers that matter are the black/urban charts because it best reflects what they were listening to and dictates what was poppin. Kwame/Kid N Play's points only ring true in the higher ends of the white charts/top 40. For example

or

or

 

[Larry Lambo]

nah bro. I already said that "gangsta" isn't the problem. the problem was that hardcore took over. not necessarily gangsta. and that phased out basically all of the elements that made kid n play stand out.

I wouldn't say that they still had a late '80s flow. the stuff they did for house party 3, was actually dope, witty and somewhat up-to-date.

their style was just a lil too upbeat/party-ish/playful. kinda like nice-n-smooth, who despite being name-dropped by someone in this thread, they were phased out around this time as well.

I take what you're saying as "hardcore" as just reality, and how people were at the time. You say that Heavy D, Queen Latifah, Tribe, MC Lyte, etc. took on a more street persona. They're from New York, that's a part of their reality. They dressed in the fashion that was hot at the time. Since everyone was wearing Carhartts, Timberlands, and Guess jeans, then they incorporated that into their style. They spoke on the situations that were going on at the time, and had mature subject matter. Kid N Play did not adjust or evolve into anything different than what they were on their debut.

To me, you're not versatile if all you want to make is happy happy party music, and not even have notable production. The reason why Salt N Pepa stayed relevant is because they had more depth in their music, and they actually kept up with the times.

I can't speak on the House Party 3 soundtrack, but their last album in 91, sounds like it came out in 87. Pete Rock did a track on the album, and you can tell how far behind their flow was if you compare to what he was doing with CL Smooth.

Nice & Smooth was relevant into 93, which more than what you can say for Kid N Play. I'm more speaking on the 90-93 time period. Biggie/Wu-Tang/Nas would have knocked most folks out the box anyways, unless you had major pop appeal or a strong underground following.

 

[Booker T Garvey]

BREH

notice how you completely skipped over an entire era.

the mid-90s. that was the real era of gangsta rap dominance. the shift started taking place in the early '90s. by the mid-90s, almost all of these dudes were done.

jazzy jeff & fresh prince cut an album in '93 and that was it, until will smith dropped men in black in '97 after gangsta rap lost steam. but he dropped nothing in-between. not even a soundtrack cut to promote his movies.

I'm from philly, and the last jazzy jeff & fresh prince song I remember getting play on power 99 was "summertime". I remember "boom! shake the room" getting play but I think it was Q102 playing that in '93. that don't count cuz theyre a pop station that changed their format to hip-hop/r&b for a minute during that time and still kept their pop-radio DJs in the process.

so wait...will smith was telling the truth? about what he experienced? interesting concept.

Flopped? Das Efx was arguably the biggest group in rap when they dropped. Damn near the entire industry tried to copy their style on some Migos ish

well first of all I already explained this, you're the second dude to say "what about das FX" out of that entire bunch of artists he dropped

well what about those other artists?

ALL of those dudes are gone. when that new wave came, they all had to GO. nobody even checks for those artists now << i'm wrong?

there are hardly any artists from the late 80's era of hip hop that are culturally relevant for their music - not talking acting and movies, but just music.

the same can't be said for the gangster rap era - damn near ALL of those muthafukkas are still relevant, even if they don't have record deals anymore.

 

[TripleAgent]

^^^^ and all of them flopped.

LOTNS - Broke up over bullshyt, popular in the East. Busta becomes a superstar.

Pharcyde - Gold

Das Efx - Platinum

These nikkas, mane...