in the early 90's if you weren't street/thug/calling women bytches, you weren't popping -Kid N Play

Wacky D

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What album are you guys listening to?

They don't do it in passing, at all. There's whole verses about it. Hell, there's whole songs about it.


You cats need to revisit the album....I don't know if you're getting it mixed up with "ATLiens" or what. The lead single was "Player's Ball" which referenced selling dope on Christmas day, for fukk sake....but people had to analyze the album to notice they were talking about street shyt?
There's numerous references to killing people....pimping....slanging dope....various guns....but it's "playful and non-threatening"?

Make a thread/poll, and I guarantee it'll be labeled as street/gangster rap. I've never even heard of it not being that, until this thread.

Fred.


you need to think outside the box.

youre thinking as an avid rap listener, whose also a fan of the group. your average person that may have heard these records, aren't breaking them down & deciphering them. your average person doesn't know that theyre referencing dope on players ball. especially all the fans that they acquired that aren't even huge fans of rap period. the street content isn't in-your-face, and to the average listener, its downright hidden. especially when they see the visuals of the group, which were always far from gangsta.

have you ever heard the term, "image is everything"??

I mean, look at Kanye west. hes always grouped in the conscious category, even tho half or most of his raps are typically braggadocio & shallow.

the problem is, AND THIS IS NOT A DISS. I UNDERSTAND THAT THIS IS A RAP FORUM: but a lot of yall are too deep into rap, and aren't thinking outside of the box neither.



What's mind boggling is people are claiming Outkast wasn't gangster rap but early Ice Cube had far more depth than Outkast debut, but was still considered gangster rap. Half of Scarface's catalog is introspective songs but he's gangster rap. People act like gangster rap is this very narrow sub-genre only a handful of acts fall into.



Exactly. I like Wacky as a poster but "Outkast was never on some street, gangster shyt" is something I'd expect to hear from someone that never heard their debut....but he claims he heard it in real time....but if you put them in the Arrested Development lane during that era, cats would laugh in your face. He says a lot of really puzzling stuff.

Fred.


hip-hop is street music. so naturally, just about every rapper ever, has had street content in some form or fashion. it doesn't make them a street rapper, and certainly not a gangsta rapper.

breh nobody says "throw on that outkast" when theyre in the mood for some gangsta chit.

comparing them to ice cube & scarface is craziness.

and yes, ARRESTED DEVELOPMENT. like I said, a lot of yall simply aren't/weren't exposed to the people buying their records and aren't in tune with those crowds. they inherited the fanbases of groups like arrested development & pm dawn when they came out. they also inherited the industry positioning of those groups in outlets that most of yall prolly never paid attention to. my thing is, if you know youre not privy to said audiences & outlets , then that's cool. but don't be in denial and argue me down about it, simply because the idea of such, ruins your view of them. that's not my problem. that's just something you have to deal with.

and of course, theres also the even more obvious influence of souls of mischief, pharcyde, etc which yall are flat-out ignoring, and wont bother to address because none of yall want to get into an argument with art barr. so instead, it gets ignored and yall focus on the other groups I mentioned,and now yall in here trying to pull up my background files. LMAO.


nikka, you're like 24 aint ya?

EXACTLY

They had like an all-star team of Black writers. Dudes who like changed the game for Hip-Hop writing and this nikka trying to cover up his fukk up like, "It's just a magazine" & "you nikkaz still believe in Santa Claus"

He's either too young and got caught up there or just wasn't no Hip-Hop head like that in the early '90s

One of them Freddie Jackson ass nikkaz


I'm 32.

I don't think yall understand what I'm saying. I don't care about none of this chit in the bolded. maybe theres a social disconnect or something, cuz we're cut from a different cloth.

that stuff makes for a great magazine, but at the end of the day, its just a magazine. thurl niccas aint gonna swear by somebody just because they have a job title on their pen.
 
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Tribal Outkast

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I have no idea where he got that from. They got booed because the South wasn't really taken seriously back then and a Southern group or solo artist winning Best New Artist wasn't going to be accepted no matter who it was. Luda, Pastor Troy, Killer Mike, TI, Jermaine Dupri, etc. has spoken on this, and gave Outkast credit for making other regions take ATL seriously when it came to hip-hop.

Fred.
Oh I know man.. Grew up with that shyt and remember it vividly. I'm from Georgia and man when 3000 got on that stage and said "the south got something to say" man it was over! You couldn't tell us nothing lol. It's just sad that Outkast get all these labels when they were just as good or better than the best rap groups out there. Like I really feel like people base their whole arguments on the fact that they're from the south and that they "wore funny clothes." The music is undeniable, all you have to do is listen.
 
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Wacky D

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I have no idea where he got that from. They got booed because the South wasn't really taken seriously back then and a Southern group or solo artist winning Best New Artist wasn't going to be accepted no matter who it was. Luda, Pastor Troy, Killer Mike, TI, Jermaine Dupri, etc. has spoken on this, and gave Outkast credit for making other regions take ATL seriously when it came to hip-hop.

Fred.


:comeon: youre quoting a bunch of people that are from the south. why don't you quote someone who is from the east coast where they were actually got booed at? wouldn't that be more logical?

not only that, but these are their buddies from Atlanta, who all took part in a documentary push a narrative for their city.

them winning that award was shakey as hell, and while it didn't help that they were from the south - it definitely didn't help but the group in general was considered bullchit by a lot of people.

and i know yall are gonna try to find a way to downplay what i have to say. but yall can go look up quotes from benzino, russeell simmons, and this board's beloved nasty nas, among others.

and I'm sure yall have seen these quotes already. because usually when this topic comes up, and someone drops one of these quotes, that's when the thread abruptly comes to an end.:sas2:
 

hex

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youre quoting a bunch of people that are from the south. why don't you quote someone who is from the east coast where they were actually got booed at? wouldn't that be more logical?

not only that, but these are their buddies from Atlanta, who all took part in a documentary push a narrative for their city.

them winning that award was shakey as hell, and while it didn't help that they were from the south - it definitely didn't help but the group in general was considered bullchit by a lot of people. ask benzino, nas, Russell simmons, etc.

There's posters from the East....actually every region....telling you you're wrong....so what are we talking about here, breh?

And "Aquemini" is in Nas favorite 25 rap albums....so I'm kinda confused what you mean.

http://www.complex.com/music/2012/05/nas-25-favorite-albums/outkast-aquemini

Nas: Outkast is the dopest shyt in the world

How you got "Outkast is bullshyt" out of that, I have no idea.

As far as Russell Simmons, he admitted he was "talking foolish" back then:

Keep an open mind. The first time I heard Outkast, I told a reporter they were wack and “weren’t hip-hop.” Obviously I couldn’t have been more wrong. My problem was I didn’t understand their music---it sounded so different from what I was used, but my mind was closed at that point in my life and it cost me. If my mind had been open, maybe I could have signed what proved to be one of the greatest groups in the history of hip-hop. At least I wouldn’t have played myself with that foolish remark. The point is, sometime great ideas will appear in forms that you’re not used to, or even comfortable with. Just keep an open mind and you’ll be able to see their value.

Which leaves Benzino. If Benzino is the crown jewel of your argument it's time to rethink your argument.

Fred.
 

Wacky D

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There's posters from the East telling you you're wrong....so what are we talking about here, breh?

And "Aquemini" is in Nas favorite 25 rap albums....so I'm kinda confused what you mean.

http://www.complex.com/music/2012/05/nas-25-favorite-albums/outkast-aquemini



How you got "Outkast is bullshyt" out of that, I have no idea.

As far as Russell Simmons, he admitted he was "talking foolish" back then:



Which leaves Benzino. If Benzino is the crown jewel of your argument it's time to rethink your argument.

Fred.


lol. outkast must be your 2nd favorite group or something, behind wutang. I can see that theyre clearly a holy grail for you.

the bolded says it all. whether russell thinks it was foolish in hindsight is neither here nor there. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT WHY THEY GOT BOOED IN REAL-TIME!!!!!
CASE CLOSED!!!! youre trying to base your argument on revision, which leads you down the road to what I always say about this group, and you def don't want to drive in that lane.

I'm black. I don't disrespect & disregard benzino like that. and hes a real street dude. I don't have to re-think anything.

youre pulling up a quote from nas in 2012, but I remember nas dissing them on street's disciple. now if it was out of spite for something else and not genuinely what he felt, I don't know. but I know what he said wasn't anything new or unheard of. lol. its how a lot of people felt about that group, east coast, down south, wherever.

what posters from the east are telling me that I'm wrong?
who are they and what is their background?


l5RSTyL.png


Then....how has he been into rap since the 80's? Did he say that's when he was born?

Fred.


its easy.

some of us weren't 1st generation listeners.

some of us were born into this chit and virtually around it since birth, amongst other things.

my thing is, why question me, when yall aren't even in tune with the majority of the people that are actually buying their product and yall are supposed to be fans of this group. I should be questioning yall.:skip:
 
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Wacky D

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If that was what people up there thought then they're some fukkin idiots lol. Outkast ain't nothing like no damn PM Dawn or Arrested Development! I liked all three groups first albums(for the most part) Arrested Develooment was on some happy black love shyt which was great. PM Dawns album was soft AF and heavily religious. Southernplayalistic was some cool ass Atlanta street shyt. Three totally different groups and sounds.


as for the AD/PM Dawn stuff. outkast gave off the same overall vibe musically and weren't far off presentation wise. and to add syrup on the pancake, they were laface's rap group. yall arguing out of desperation, because this is news to some of yall. but I knew from jumpstreet that they inherited that fanbase.

youre connecting two different arguments, and arguing with me about something that I didn't necessarily say, as a result of it. and the people who dapped you, apparently are doing the same thing. or maybe theyre just dapping you on GP cuz youre arguing "on their side".

yall get so emotional over this group. they must really speak to your souls.

do me a favor. take a deep breath, re-read my post, then get back to me.
 

Tribal Outkast

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as for the AD/PM Dawn stuff. outkast gave off the same overall vibe musically and weren't far off presentation wise. and to add syrup on the pancake, they were laface's rap group. yall arguing out of desperation, because this is news to some of yall. but I knew from jumpstreet that they inherited that fanbase.

youre connecting two different arguments, and arguing with me about something that I didn't necessarily say, as a result of it. and the people who dapped you, apparently are doing the same thing. or maybe theyre just dapping you on GP cuz youre arguing "on their side".

yall get so emotional over this group. they must really speak to your souls.

do me a favor. take a deep breath, re-read my post, then get back to me.
Outkast is nothing like Arrested Development or PM Dawn. How well did you know Outkast? I have followed that group since Playas Ball was on the So So Def Christmas album... you know, the song that started out as a Christmas song but they changed it and made it their first single.

His did these dudes
tumblr_mvldoxbose1rkdemgo1_500.jpg


Young-Outkast_600x400-600x400.png

95SourceAwards-.jpg

c4bff5e3033422ae1099a1c1ec66ce94-1.jpg

Remind anybody of Arrested Development or PM Dawn? People have already posted evidence about the lyrics on Southernplayalistic. I mean Dre was just starting to dress differently right around the time of the '95 Source Awards. How did they give off a PM Dawn vibe? That's just not true.
 

Wacky D

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Outkast is nothing like Arrested Development or PM Dawn. How well did you know Outkast? I have followed that group since Playas Ball was on the So So Def Christmas album... you know, the song that started out as a Christmas song but they changed it and made it their first single.

His did these dudes

Remind anybody of Arrested Development or PM Dawn? People have already posted evidence about the lyrics on Southernplayalistic. I mean Dre was just starting to dress differently right around the time of the '95 Source Awards. How did they give off a PM Dawn vibe? That's just not true.


I already explained the similarities multiple times.

I'm not going in circles anymore.

but I notice that I'm the guy that has to bridge the gap for a lot of topics on here, so i'll say this last bit. I cant make it any more simplistic:
SPCM can be played in the same sitting as arrested development or digable planets without the blink of an eye.

atliens can be thrown on right after pm dawn album.

since pm dawn, theres been a whole entire market for this chit. then add to the face that outkast was laface..........

why do yall think common gets the looks that he does?
 
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kingofnyc

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Their content and lyrics on that album fit into the topic at hand. Their lyrics definitely contained those themes.
While they had an overall depth to what they rapped about, it was still in that lane. Listen to "Hootie Hoo" or "Ain't No Thang".
breh
its no where in that line - lets go over this a bit more thoroughly
the topic is about kid belief in the direction of hip hop during that early mid 90's era of inky poppin if you was (street) (thugs) (calling women bytches)

1. (street) these nikkaz are from da south / country so technically they could never be considered street rappers

2. (thugs) besides a few hard bars here & there - where the lyrics / songs that promote doing thug type of shyt

3. (calling women bytches) as i already stated, i think they used the word bytch less then a handful times & i dont recall them using the word like their more popular peers at the time ei. Luke 2live crew / snoop n dre / too short etc....



Is this a serious question? :gucci:

They were talking about shooting people, pimping, and slanging dope on every other song. You need to revisit the album.

Fred.

saw this yesterday evening & decided to revisit the LP this morning on my way to work got to most of it

still dont understand what yall nikkaz talking bout :yeshrug:
dope LP and all ... and again, a few semi hard bars sporadically on the album, but noting remotely like that HARDCORE shyt being played back then
 

kingofnyc

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ive been a rap fan since the '80s.

I'm not dissin the source. I'm jus saying its just a f*ckin magazine.

I never got carried away with all that extra chit. and anybody who didn't, will tell you the same thing. the majority really.
.


:stopitslime:
the source mag started in '88
@mobbinfms said you was born in '85 (if true)
how dare you : go so, damn hard on a magazine that you couldn't even read during its pinnacle of publication






put a quarter in your azz - cause you played yourself

anigif_enhanced-8952-1484270541-6.gif


 

Wacky D

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:stopitslime:
the source mag started in '88
@mobbinfms said you was born in '85 (if true)
how dare you : go so, damn hard on a magazine that you couldn't even read during its pinnacle of publication


I'm not going hard on anybody. you seem to be missing my point by a mile.

and the source was just a pamphlet in '88.

youre defending them to the death and don't even know their history.
 

spliz

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lol. outkast must be your 2nd favorite group or something, behind wutang. I can see that theyre clearly a holy grail for you.

the bolded says it all. whether russell thinks it was foolish in hindsight is neither here nor there. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT WHY THEY GOT BOOED IN REAL-TIME!!!!!
CASE CLOSED!!!! youre trying to base your argument on revision, which leads you down the road to what I always say about this group, and you def don't want to drive in that lane.

I'm black. I don't disrespect & disregard benzino like that. and hes a real street dude. I don't have to re-think anything.

youre pulling up a quote from nas in 2012, but I remember nas dissing them on street's disciple. now if it was out of spite for something else and not genuinely what he felt, I don't know. but I know what he said wasn't anything new or unheard of. lol. its how a lot of people felt about that group, east coast, down south, wherever.

what posters from the east are telling me that I'm wrong?
who are they and what is their background?





its easy.

some of us weren't 1st generation listeners.

some of us were born into this chit and virtually around it since birth, amongst other things.

my thing is, why question me, when yall aren't even in tune with the majority of the people that are actually buying their product and yall are supposed to be fans of this group. I should be questioning yall.:skip:
To be fair at the time Russell also passed on Nas. So he's not a good gauge of how people felt.
 

kingofnyc

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Who said they were Mobb Deep?

nah
nobody said mobb deep
i brought them up cause both are duo's & mobb rep that hardcore sound in that era (
im still NOT understanding how kast was considered street/thugs back then)


You compared them to fukking Arrested Development:russ:

:whoa:
your confusing me with someone else -breh




EXACTLY

They had like an all-star team of Black writers. Dudes who like changed the game for Hip-Hop writing and this nikka trying to cover up his fukk up like, "It's just a magazine" & "you nikkaz still believe in Santa Claus":mjlol:

He's either too young and got caught up there or just wasn't no Hip-Hop head like that in the early '90s

One of them Freddie Jackson ass

:salute:
and i noticed how he been on this source NON BLACK WRITERS/STAFF shyt for a good minute & when he replied to the post.... dude completely edited out ALL THE BLACK CO-OWNER/ EDITORS/ WRITERS i posted

:snoop: never understood people who go so hard without knowing what da hell they talking bout
dude should man up & just apologized
 

Wacky D

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To be fair at the time Russell also passed on Nas. So he's not a good gauge of how people felt.


will yall cut the chit already?

yall trying to discredit every name mentioned. nevermind the fact that the stuff theyre saying was common opinion. I shouldn't have even needed to bring up any celebrity quotes.

I'm beginning to think outkast is really a cult. some of yall going all out to the death to clean up for them.


nah
nobody said mobb deep
i brought them up cause both are duo's & mobb rep that hardcore sound in that era (
im still NOT understanding how kast was considered street/thugs back then)

your confusing me with someone else -breh


and i noticed how he been on this source NON BLACK WRITERS/STAFF shyt for a good minute & when he replied to the post.... dude completely edited out ALL THE BLACK CO-OWNER/ EDITORS/ WRITERS i posted

never understood people who go so hard without knowing what da hell they talking bout
dude should man up & just apologized


i almost glossed over this post. next time, tag me when youre addressing my name in an argumentative fashion.

if I edited your list of staff members, its prolly cuz I already addressed that chit.
 
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