In case you ever needed a quick image to sum up what is wrong with the US

[theworldismine13]

They wouldnt have dropped that thing on Germany.

i dont know what type of scenario you are seeing, but in a scenario in which germany was an existential threat to the continental us then i think the us would have dropped the bomb on germany

 

[theworldismine13]

TRUTH.

and at the fact that that shyt even came up in the convo.

it came up because IMO it isnt good enough to just study how scandanavian countries spread their wealth, its important to study how that wealth was created, and the wealth of scandanavian countries and their high social spending occurred under the NATO military umbrella

not to mention that these are fundamentally capitalist countries and are completely integrated into the american financial system and global capital markets

yall seem to be avoiding the sausage making part of these scandanavian countries

 

[babylon1]

,

 

[The Real]

perhaps free education could be rewarded for more difficult majors such as engineering and computer science to beef up the talent we have. The education market is distorted and kind of a monopoly anyway.

However everyone having access to a degree would make that paper about as valuable as a high school diploma and then it would make the mba programs end up becoming the equivalent of a bachelors out in the market and force everyone to be in school until 23-25

If i may ask though does the worlds best talent come from the Nordic countries? I mean when people look for foreign engineering talent don't they come from germany and India?

The thing about viewing a degree solely as a product or commodity is that the people who do so usually don't realize that it represents much more than an immediate investment in a career. An education is good because society is better off in general with well-rounded people who understand and question a wider array of things. It's as much about an investment in the larger culture and in our democracy in general as in an immediate career- that's why even things like the humanities are important. I'm still using the language of investment here, but honestly, you don't need to. Understanding logic, English, history, etc, are good for their own sake.

 

[Slystallion]

The thing about viewing a degree solely as a product or commodity is that the people who do so usually don't realize that it represents much more than an immediate investment in a career. An education is good because society is better off in general with well-rounded people who understand and question a wider array of things. It's as much about an investment in the larger culture and in our democracy in general as in an immediate career- that's why even things like the humanities are important. I'm still using the language of investment here, but honestly, you don't need to. Understanding logic, English, history, etc, are good for their own sake.

then it should be improved at the high school levels, i agree people should understand english and history and humanities but as far as something of value that improves everybody's life they aren't seeing engineers

I wouldn't have a problem if my tax money is going to cultivating professionals of value like engineering because i know its not something that everyone has the skills for but we can help out people who otherwise couldn't afford to make it into a top program like Stanford where these guys with ideas can cultivate them and change the world.

however even if it was free its not like everyone would take the opportunity to go to college and to offer something like that i would have to sit down and mathematically see the costs of such a program and other things would have to be cut and a massive tax rate cut would have to happen for the bill to pass so everybody gets something and all parties are satisfied...like social security would have to have a privatization option to cut out a lot of the cost burden of that program for instance

 

[Melt_Man]

the fuk? are you brehs smoking crack, there was no western front until the US stepped in, england was thoroughly defeated military wise and it had essentially zero offensive capability, churchill was mostly bluffing with his tough talk and only water allowed england to survive long enough until the US stepped in

of course once it became a two front war hitler had little chance, that is why it is historically correct to say that american capitalism and american industrial might defeated hitler

there are scenarios under which russia and england could have held off for a longer time because in war the defender usually has the advantage, so maybe russia and england would have kept some type of territorial integrity, but there isnt any american-less scenario under which either of them could have fought back to berlin to defeat hitler, so scandanavian countries would have remained under hitler without the US opening up the western front (except maybe finland)

and lets not forget the us was also fighting on two fronts and it defeated both enemies on both fronts

You made the extremely simplistic proclamation that American capitalism defeated Hitler. Me bringing up the fact that Hitler's forces were split between two fronts one being the Eastern front equates to me smoking crack?

 

[theworldismine13]

You made the extremely simplistic proclamation that American capitalism defeated Hitler. Me bringing up the fact that Hitler's forces were split between two fronts one being the Eastern front equates to me smoking crack?

well smoking a crack is over the top, but i dont think your statement is a real counterpoint since the only reason the two fronts existed was because of america's entrance into the war

the way you and kool said it, it was implying that the 2 fronts would have occured with or without the us, when in reality, germany had defeated ever army in europe thoroughly

 

[theworldismine13]

and BTW, the original 2 front war ended and became 1 front with France's defeat and the british running back to their little island at Dunkirk http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunkirk_evacuation

 

[chkmeout]

The thing about viewing a degree solely as a product or commodity is that the people who do so usually don't realize that it represents much more than an immediate investment in a career. An education is good because society is better off in general with well-rounded people who understand and question a wider array of things. It's as much about an investment in the larger culture and in our democracy in general as in an immediate career- that's why even things like the humanities are important. I'm still using the language of investment here, but honestly, you don't need to. Understanding logic, English, history, etc, are good for their own sake.

excellent

 

[theworldismine13]

The thing about viewing a degree solely as a product or commodity is that the people who do so usually don't realize that it represents much more than an immediate investment in a career. An education is good because society is better off in general with well-rounded people who understand and question a wider array of things. It's as much about an investment in the larger culture and in our democracy in general as in an immediate career- that's why even things like the humanities are important. I'm still using the language of investment here, but honestly, you don't need to. Understanding logic, English, history, etc, are good for their own sake.

that is what i was trying to say in the thread about education level that veered into a discussion about whether its worth going to college

this is why black people have an interest in increasing the number of black people going to college that is separate from simply the issue of finding a job or getting income

another way of of saying it is that educated people create intellectual capital in the community

 

[Domingo Halliburton]

If anything, something like a single payer health plan would reduce per person costs due to the lower risk

Free college would be a boon for the country as well; the only people benefiting from the current system work in the financial industry

Dismiss logic with political talking points brehs.

where did I say I'm against those things? I'm just pointing out it's a lot easier to accomplish these things on that scale.

 

[Domingo Halliburton]

You made the extremely simplistic proclamation that American capitalism defeated Hitler. Me bringing up the fact that Hitler's forces were split between two fronts one being the Eastern front equates to me smoking crack?

if you count lend-lease act then I kinda see what he's saying. russia just had so many troops and used that to their advantage, they didn't give a fukk about losing like 9 million soldiers fighting germany.

edit: and I forgot to add had we not defeated Japan they would of run roughshod over a bunch of english territories. Without our credit, lend-lease, and fighting the japanese, the japanese would of defeted australia, and taken singapore and india. Britain wouldn't of done shyt after that, especially without india.

 

[CouldntBeMeTho]

this thread kinda went all over. We can argue over whether education should be free or not all day. But the COST in America for higher education, is the real problem.

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

where did I say I'm against those things? I'm just pointing out it's a lot easier to accomplish these things on that scale.

Nobody said you were against those things, but the idea that those things would be harder to do here is patently false. If the NSA can spy on 7 billion people I think we can manage a simple single payment health care plan.

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

Also we need to do a few more things. Not everyone will agree on these things but its the only way.

healthcare - the way u said.

consumer debt forgiveness(1 of our biggest issues).... paid for by 100 Billion of the 200+ bill in profits that the banks made from borrowing money from us. We've been only superficially supporting the economy through consumer spending --- we've used debt since the 80's to paint that false picture.

education - excess war money invested in early childhood education. We can easily afford every kid using tablets in elementary school... higher elemetary teacher salaries to attract our smartest to teach our youngest. my son uses 1 he's 5 and a private doner paid for all the ones at that school with .00005 of the money we use on 1 laser guided missile. Economic benefit of education is underestimated.

Invest all corporate tax breaks into social programs...

criminalize private prisons - consider that institution = with slavery.

increase taxes on top 5% and lower debt through avoiding global agendas and corporate tax breaks.

immigration reform - not gonna get into that.



and these last two are only if we want to be a moral nation and are only my opinion: pay the natives what we owe them for resources - over 100 billion. free higher education for african americans and afro hispanics to any university they are accepted to (doesn't included living expenses.) .

I agree w/everything but forgiving consumer debt and raising taxes. Everyone should have access to the Fed window, and everyone should pay about the same tax rate- as long as everyone has access to healthcare and education. I have a whole laundry list of little things that need to be done, but yea, the overall gist of what you're saying is right... everyone knows it... it's really just a matter of getting corporations out of politicians pockets.