Illegals and muslims can't be central to the Democrats anymore. Voters are just stupid. Admit it.

[theworldismine13]

This thread displays some serious political immaturity.

Party dominance is cyclical. Thats about as firm a rule as there is in American politics. Remember when everyone was writing autopsies for Republicans after Obama's victory, and correspondingly Democrats held complete dominance of congress? Republicans flirted with modernizing and becoming Democratic-lite, but they ended up veering harder right to much success.

Furthermore, issues of importance in voter's minds reliably strengthen and weaken EVERY election cycle. There's years the economy ranks as the number one issue, and there's years it struggles to crack the top five. There's a good chance no one will care about immigration in 2020.

To this point, in 2003/04 Bush won by riding the Iraq war. In 2007 support for the war was so toxic even Fox News warhawks were distancing themselves from it. Hilary Clinton's support for the war derailed her presidential hopes in 2008, and its safe to say her political career was never the same. This highlights the danger in caping for another party, and trying to appeal to their base at the expense of your party's convictions and values.

If I told you in 2006 that a black man would be the next president, you'd have me committed to a nuthouse. If I told you in 2014 that Trump would succeed Obama as the next president, you'd have me recommitted. American politics are volatile, and hardly static and fixed.

Trump will give the democrats plenty to exploit in the midterms and upcoming presidential. And the world will be much different in a couple of years. Dems will succeed thru forward thinking, and asking the basic question if voters are better off with Trump as president, and not this backwards idea that they need to follow republicans lead and act more hawkish about immigration. That would be so awkward and transparent.

Ruminating about election cycles isn't gonna help you on current elections and those cycles are caused by shifting voting patterns and by parties shifting positions

There was a time when republicans was the party of civil rights and the democrats the party of the kkk

So democrats shifting in immigration wouldn't be anymore awkward than the multiple shifts on issues by both parties in the past 100 years

For the record I predicted in 2007 that Obama would win and I predicted in 2014 that Hillary would lose and I predict now that if the democratic presidential candidate has a similar position on immigration to Hillary he or she will lose and any democrat that takes a hawkish stand on immigration will win

 

[theworldismine13]

Honestly I think Trump's rise is more because of Obama than Muslims or Immigrants, after all it's not like they weren't around before then.

Not so much anything in particular he did, but the optics of having a black president really offended a lot of white folks (even Colin Powell and some other Republicans have admitted this) and mobilised the far right and they've been on overdrive on the Internet recruiting people since then (read any Youtube or Yahoo comment section post-Obama).

You think that because you don't recognize how extremist Obama and Hillary were on immigration

Obama and Hillary used the language of civil rights and benevolence to advocate flooding the labor markets with 11 million people through amnesty, doubling or tripling legal immigration, making America bilingual and making hispanics a dominant political force (ahead of blacks and competitive with whites)

Once you get past the pretty words the whole democratic agenda on immigration is nutty as fuk

And they are doing this under the guise of anti racism and black civil rights history and with the power they gain from the black vote, which is what triggers me, you can't fight racism by bringing in millions of people into the us that have a 500 year history of oppressing black people

It's possible that trump's rise in the republican primaries was due to Obama hate, I won't disagree but white Obama voters switching from Obama to trump was the nail in the coffin for Hillary and that can't be explained by Obama hate or racism it can be explained by immigration and trade issues

 

[theworldismine13]

Nap, you're avoiding the question. Do you think the number of additional votes you get by supporting a more hardline position on immigration/muslims will is greater than the number you will lose?

You will absolutely lost people in the following groups:

1. hispanics
2. younger voters
3. professional class/limousine liberals that have the luxury of being able to vote based on emotion/likeability

You're chasing a subset of voters that:

1. is incredibly small (vast majority of voters are dedicated partisans immune to ANY political persuasion)
2. has already been shown to be willing to vote for a candidate that is perceived to be pro immigrant etc, as long as their policies are economically populist (Obama)
3. is dying off at a faster rate
4. will see such a huge shift in policy preferences by the Dems as a convenient "flip flop" that isn't to be trusted

None of the groups in 1,2,3 you mentioned mattter outside of CA and NY

And there is no evidence that having a hawkish view on immigration will make Obama voters not vote democratic

There is evidence that being soft on immigration will cause white Obama voters to vote republican

The Hispanic wave is phony

And a poll saying that voters support immigration reform doesn't mean that they vote or will switch their vote based on immigration reform

 

[Danktoker94]

@Call Me James coming off as a cac with all that illegal loving and dodging he's doing

 

[GnauzBookOfRhymes]

None of the groups in 1,2,3 you mentioned mattter outside of CA and NY

And there is no evidence that having a hawkish view on immigration will make Obama voters not vote democratic

There is evidence that being soft on immigration will cause white Obama voters to vote republican

The Hispanic wave is phony

And a poll saying that voters support immigration reform doesn't mean that they vote or will switch their vote based on immigration reform

Bro just stop. You two just respond with no grounding in fact - just whatever sounds right. Nevada, Colorado and Florida are just the first 3 that come to mind.

There is evidence that Dem attempts to parrot GOP talking points lead to Dem base dissatisfaction. Think about how many Dems STILL hold Hillary's vote for the war in Iraq against her.

There is even more conclusive evidence that proposing a stronger populist economic policy will get those same votes.

Rest of your post is meaningless.

 

[theworldismine13]

Bro just stop. You two just respond with no grounding in fact - just whatever sounds right. Nevada, Colorado and Florida are just the first 3 that come to mind.

There is evidence that Dem attempts to parrot GOP talking points lead to Dem base dissatisfaction. Think about how many Dems STILL hold Hillary's vote for the war in Iraq against her.

There is even more conclusive evidence that proposing a stronger populist economic policy will get those same votes.

Rest of your post is meaningless.

What exactly are those states suppose to prove? That there is a Hispanic wave? That dovish immigration policies win?

I'm not following

The whole clinton presidency was based on stealing GOP talking points so there is no evidence that you will lose doing that

Hillary was using GOP talking points when she voted and then was using dem talking points during the primary, the lack of intellectual consistency was her problem not the stance itself. Also people are more forgiving when they like you and nobody liked Hillary

Oh I agree that an economic populist message will win votes but IMO you cannot be a populist and advocate for essentially open borders, importing millions of foreigners and bilingualism, only elitists think those things are ok, like other people you refuse to acknowledge how nutty the dem position on immigration is

 

[the next guy]

@Call Me James coming off as a cac with all that illegal dikk sucking and dodging he's doing

Not anything cac about friend ya'll just disagree. This argument between different classes of black people is just taking place more frequently now.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

I think arabs/muslims are gone from the GOP for a generation. The war economy and the subsequent war on terror is going nowhere. I see a time soon that illegal immigration will no longer be forefront in national discourse. I see the talking point fading away with Donald Trump

You can't hide issues from voters.

Trump is own beast

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

Agreed, I think folks are denial about how these people really feel about political correctness. They see an uncouth politician "telling it like it is" and, it wouldn't have mattered who they trotted out against Trump. Couple that with the rise of Isis and Isis motivated attacks in the West, and Trump had the presidency in the bag. Fear is a strong emotion. Trump appealed to the core of White working class America's fears, insecurities, concerns, etc. I guess you can partly blame Liberals for not being attentive to the needs to working class whites. But let's be honest, once Trump won the Repub nomination, their minds were already made up. Bernie would've lost also.

I warned people about this.

Its one thing to shyt on right wingers.

I do it all the time

Its another thing to ignore them

Thats what people in here are doing.

They have votes and they use them.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

Too soft? What does this even mean, people who make up the Democratic base, should just continue to vote for these corporatist blue dogs just because they have a (D) behind their names? People have real problems and Democrats have exacerbated many of these issues, with their terrible policies.



This isn't true poor people who would be included in the working class tend to not vote at all, as can be seen here:


Bernie Sanders said poor people don't vote

So instead of making an effort to do something, like set up or expand carpools to the polls and educating the poor on policy, in an attempt to expand their voting base, Democrats should continue to move to the right and become Republicans who shop at Whole Foods? How the fukk does that make any sense?

illegals can't vote tho...???

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

Honestly I think Trump's rise is more because of Obama than Muslims or Immigrants, after all it's not like they weren't around before then.

Not so much anything in particular he did, but the optics of having a black president really offended a lot of white folks (even Colin Powell and some other Republicans have admitted this) and mobilised the far right and they've been on overdrive on the Internet recruiting people since then (read any Youtube or Yahoo comment section post-Obama).

Again. The pressure of illegals reached a fever pitch BEFORE the election. People were deciding who to vote for.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

@Call Me James coming off as a cac with all that illegal dikk sucking and dodging he's doing

its so inconsistent. Dude actually shytted on black labor.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

Bro just stop. You two just respond with no grounding in fact - just whatever sounds right. Nevada, Colorado and Florida are just the first 3 that come to mind.

There is evidence that Dem attempts to parrot GOP talking points lead to Dem base dissatisfaction. Think about how many Dems STILL hold Hillary's vote for the war in Iraq against her.

There is even more conclusive evidence that proposing a stronger populist economic policy will get those same votes.

Rest of your post is meaningless.

None of this has anything to do with illegals.

MANY LEGAL HISPANIC IMMIGRANTS DO NOT SUPPORT ILLEGALS. Did you know this????

Supporting illegals just is an emotional play. Theres NO upside to it.

And its clear Dems lose votes caping for people who undermine the Dems economic base tho are low skill workers and the poor.

We're not parroting GOP talking points..They have their own immigration reform that they are afraid to pass.

Both parties don't want to touch this issue.

fukking Jorge Ramos tried to make Sanders and Hillary PLEDGE not to enforce our nations' laws. Jorge Ramos pressed Clinton and Sanders relentlessly on not deporting children. And that’s okay.

WHO DOES THAT??????

 

[GnauzBookOfRhymes]

What exactly are those states suppose to prove? That there is a Hispanic wave? That dovish immigration policies win?

I'm not following

The whole clinton presidency was based on stealing GOP talking points so there is no evidence that you will lose doing that

Hillary was using GOP talking points when she voted and then was using dem talking points during the primary, the lack of intellectual consistency was her problem not the stance itself. Also people are more forgiving when they like you and nobody liked Hillary

Oh I agree that an economic populist message will win votes but IMO you cannot be a populist and advocate for essentially open borders, importing millions of foreigners and bilingualism, only elitists think those things are ok, like other people you refuse to acknowledge how nutty the dem position on immigration is

If you don't understand how those 3 states fit into the context of explaining how your contention that Hispanic votes don't matter outside of CA and NY then you should read up bf dismissing outright.

It's not 1992 anymore!!!! Triangulation no longer works in our current system. Back then you had truly moderate republicans that could be enticed. Even Gingrich was willing to work with Clinton. Please name me one Republican today in a position of power that is willing to risk political capital to break bread with Dems.

You guys are so obsessed with Clinton and this third wave centrist BS that passes for sophisticated political strategy.

Again no one is saying run on open borders. You run on immigration reform that the vast majority of people already support. That's you parroting right wing talking points. They got you talking like them and you don't even know it. Pathetic. Next thing you know you're gonna be telling us we need to stop all immigration so we can preserve the country's "traditional identity"

 

[ExodusNirvana]

This thread is low key a Klan rally

When they're done with the "immigrants" (the other) they'll come back around for the Blacks.

Some of whom are immigrants

Take up sides with the GOP tho