Illegals and muslims can't be central to the Democrats anymore. Voters are just stupid. Admit it.

[the next guy]

I actually agree that the groups aren't Dem strongholds, I just don't think that changing the rhetoric about them is going to win any "moderate" voters.

And the past environment was different than now. Obama's election pretty much made the alt-right mainstream which wasn't the case back in the day. So it's apples and oranges.


But I don't want people to think I'm making some pro-illegal immigration argument, I'm only arguing that the Dems won't benefit much from changing their position on it.

I actually think they should stay, but I can see the divide. I just don't know what the dems do about it.

 

[kwazzy100]

Theres no need to criticize Ossoff, Clinton, or other democrats.

They did all they could.

Republicans are just terrible people who love to see non-whites flounder.

They hate muslims. They hate trans issues. They hate black issues. They label decent behavior as being a "SJW." They hate non-judeo-christian values. They hate socialist talk.

You do know Democrats and Liberals hate socialism and weak on black issues too, right? Both Clintons did a terrible jobs to "help" black people.

 

[Mulatto Trunks]

Republican and democrat parties both contain racist cacs who truly don't care much for minority communities. Only difference is how easily you can see it

 

[GnauzBookOfRhymes]

What do you mean "from here?" I was born here.

Fact is, illegals LOVE it when democrats argue.

Cause they know we're the only ones keeping them in the States.

It benefits them to have bleeding hearts bend over backwards to do what no other country on earth does for illegals.

Again. KISSING redneck ass is not going to make them like you no matter how passionately you perform. You think you can align yourself with Trump on immigration and still maintain your base? Have you not learned the lesson of your equally politically braindead hero Hillary? Getting on your knees only leads to GOP voters pissing in your face.

You agree with them on immigration, then they have a laundry list of other reasons not to vote Dem (guns, abortion etc).

Ironically, the issues that has been proven to actually sway the voters you want so badly to be accepted by - economic issues (wage inequality, concentration of corporate power, offshoring) - are the ones that you "centrists" have zero intention of actually tackling. What sense does it make to risk losing tens of millions of votes for a generation in the hopes of winning a few million for one election cycle? Especially when it is much easier to simply run candidates that people actually trust and are personally likable and push policies that the vast majority of voters actually support.

Strategy

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

Again. KISSING redneck ass is not going to make them like you no matter how passionately you perform. You think you can align yourself with Trump on immigration and still maintain your base? Have you not learned the lesson of your equally politically braindead hero Hillary? Getting on your knees only leads to GOP voters pissing in your face.

You agree with them on immigration, then they have a laundry list of other reasons not to vote Dem (guns, abortion etc).

Ironically, the issues that has been proven to actually sway the voters you want so badly to be accepted by - economic issues (wage inequality, concentration of corporate power, offshoring) - are the ones that you "centrists" have zero intention of actually tackling. What sense does it make to risk losing tens of millions of votes for a generation in the hopes of winning a few million for one election cycle? Especially when it is much easier to simply run candidates that people actually trust and are personally likable and push policies that the vast majority of voters actually support.

Strategy

Who said anything about kissing redneck ass?

I'm talking about dumping this drag on the party

Illegals don't help us. They hurt us with moderate voters.

End of story.

 

[Hood Critic]

This is what we should be discussing Supreme Court to hear potentially landmark case on partisan gerrymandering

 

[acri1]

This is what we should be discussing Supreme Court to hear potentially landmark case on partisan gerrymandering

Honestly, there's nothing much to discuss (and I made the thread about it).

The Supreme Court will likely vote 5-4 (along partisan lines) in favor of gerrymandering and there's really nothing we can do about it.

 

[JahFocus CS]

Nap out here trying to undermine the one thing (social liberalism) that a person could point to and make an argument that the Democrats are really different from Republicans

If they start OPENLY throwing minorities under the bus, why not just vote Republican to get the real thing? Dems are already Republican-lite, throw in some xenophobia and you might as well merge the parties for real

 

[GnauzBookOfRhymes]

I'd rate his performance as C- on immigration, B on trade. Its another discussion, but while I agree with the executive orders early in his term on immigration in spirit, they were a tactical mistake that cost him a lot of positive momentum. I am happy that he has allowed ICE to "take the gloves off" and really get going with deportations and other enforcement actions. The B on trade is mostly due to his appointment of Lighthizer as USTR, who has a decidedly skeptical view of our current trade arrangements (a refreshing change from previous administrations, Democrat or Republican).

There hasn't been a material difference between Democrats and Republicans on real wage growth or trade at least since we signed on to NAFTA. It is mathematically impossible to improve wages while flooding the country with legal and illegal immigrants and allowing free trade with low-wage, zero-environmental restrictions countries. For the Democrats, the immigrants mean new voters. For the Republicans (at least pre-Trump wing), they meant cheap, easily exploitable labor. Everybody was fat and happy until Trump came along to blow the issue wide open.

More on the FDR/LBJ style populism later - sorry not to finish this up, but I gotta go for now.

Regarding wage growth. It is widely accepted, by economists both left and right, that the primary driving force for wage stagnation (and this has been the case since the early 70s - 20 years before NAFTA was signed) is that whereas in the past gains in productivity coincided equally with gains in labor costs (wages), over the last 40 years or so these two figures are no longer tethered. A company that has become more productive through increased automation for instance does not feel compelled to increase their worker's wages even though increased productivity = bigger corporate profits. I agree that many Dems have been equally unresponsive to this issue, but focusing only on immigrants (legal and illegal) ignores the elephant in the room. Even if wage disparity between US and trading partners such as China, has less of an effect than is assumed. The real reason we have such huge trade imbalances is that those countries subsidize their companies through various loans, public investments etc that insulate them from having to worry true profitability. It's a method of societal control. The Communist Party knows that there would be revolution if Chinese companies had to operate with the same set of controls/rules as those in the U.S.

We both know you're smart enough to know Trump is not going to do anything about either of those issues, and the idea that his choice of USTR is what justifies a B is laughable - especially in light of the reality that Trump's selections (with the exception of Mattis) have zero latitude to actually effect policy. You're not slick Pepe.

 

[GnauzBookOfRhymes]

Nap out here trying to undermine the one thing (social liberalism) that a person could point to and make an argument that the Democrats are really different from Republicans

If they start OPENLY throwing minorities under the bus, why not just vote Republican to get the real thing? Dems are already Republican-lite, throw in some xenophobia and you might as well merge the parties for real

Nap the type of person to self deport thinking "I'm not worried, they're going to let me back....I'm one of the bueno hombres"

 

[dh86]

In @4d 6f 6e 65 79 defense ( I can't believe I'm doing this) a lot of these non black minority groups are fickle when it comes to the dems. It was only 13 years ago Bush got 44 percent of the hispanic vote. Large amounts of muslims were repub and still would be if not for 9/11. Should the dems refocus on its core or continue to chase minority groups that will abandon them when things are "safe" per se.

I think arabs/muslims are gone from the GOP for a generation. The war economy and the subsequent war on terror is going nowhere. I see a time soon that illegal immigration will no longer be forefront in national discourse. I see the talking point fading away with Donald Trump

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

Nap out here trying to undermine the one thing (social liberalism) that a person could point to and make an argument that the Democrats are really different from Republicans

If they start OPENLY throwing minorities under the bus, why not just vote Republican to get the real thing? Dems are already Republican-lite, throw in some xenophobia and you might as well merge the parties for real

Did I miss where you addressed illegals?

and our poor and under-employed?

 

[dtownreppin214]

@dtownreppin214 come bless the thread homie

You see whats going down. People refusing this game

damn you got the computers computin' in here.

the coli brehs love to cape for illegals more than any salon subscribing hamlet living bleeding heart liberal i've met in my life. shyt is a disease on here.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

This is what we should be discussing Supreme Court to hear potentially landmark case on partisan gerrymandering

Nah. We can also get trump out of office. And focus on the Russia connection. and remove illegals.

We can do it all.

 

[GnauzBookOfRhymes]

You just said the following:

Who said anything about kissing redneck ass?

I'm talking about dumping this drag on the party

Illegals don't help us. They hurt us with moderate voters.

End of story.

But scroll back a few pages

So immigration is the way forward for the Dems. gotta preserve that sense of identity.

What identity is that?

You start treading on thin ice.

This always was a white country. We have to accept that. Until minorities stop bunching up in cities....

I doubt you even realize how many times you've contradicted yourself just in this thread. You're officially HuffPost status - all aggregation, zero analysis.