Illegals and muslims can't be central to the Democrats anymore. Voters are just stupid. Admit it.

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

@No_bammer_weed who is voting for this?



Hmm?:confusedjagfan:

Centrists saw this and said "yeah, fukk this":JordanFunny:

and bounced.

But hey, you feel better, right?

@panopticon @wire28 @Atlrocafella @Rekkapryde @Beyoncé knowles-Carter @the next guy @dtownreppin214 @Blessed Is the Man @Phoenix Rising @biscuitsnbangers

 

[GnauzBookOfRhymes]

Panopticon, how would you rate Trump's performance thus far on those two issues?

Also would be interested in hearing how you square your support for LBJ/FDR style populism with your current registration. All of those things that you hold so dear (real wage growth) are in direct contradiction to the policies in the GOP's platform.

 

[acri1]

I'm a black man that registered Republican last year for the first time in my life and voted for Trump because of 2 issues: immigration and trade.

I support universal healthcare, however we want to do it. Public-private partnerships, single-payer, whatever. Bottom line is every American needs to have access to affordable healthcare, full stop. Wealthiest country in the world and we have people going BK over hospital bills? GTFOH.

I'm agnostic on gay/trans rights/issues - don't have any strong feelings either way.

I want to see real, significant wage gains for the median American, and especially for the bottom 1/3 of Americans. I want to see us close the gap between where real wages stagnated in the early 1970s and where they would be today if they had risen along with GDP/productivity growth.

I want it to be affordable for Americans to live in the places that their parents and grandparents were able to live. California isn't supposed to be the private reserve of wealthy foreigners, tech geniuses, and their illegal landscapers. Believe it or not, places like Huntington Beach were once affordable to the working and middle class. You weren't banished to the Inland Empire for lack of a 6 figure income or 7 figure net worth.

My political stances are pretty much standard populist Democrat circa FDR-LBJ. Things changed, and very much for the worse once the baby boomers came to power in the Democratic Party. Matt Stoller did a fantastic (but long) piece on this several months back, and it dovetails nicely with the discussion we've been having:

How Democrats Killed Their Populist Soul

Immigration aside, it doesn't bother you that the GOP is kind of...massively racist?

This is a president that pushed a bunch of birther conspiracy nonsense for years and posted fake stats on his Twitter about black-on-white crime to rile up white folks.


Even if I agreed with Trump on Immigration I still wouldn't have voted for him just off GP because he's a demagogue.

 

[GnauzBookOfRhymes]

Illegals benefit from softies like you who debate people like me from supporting kicking them out. The love hearing us argue. Just means they get to stay longer and undermine our poor and unskilled. Many of whom are black.

Breh stick to the Russia thread. You're out of your element and are trying too hard. You think kissing right wing/white ass is going to make them like you? That's not how it works. If you were from here you'd realize that.

 

[panopticon]

@No_bammer_weed who is voting for this?



Hmm?

Centrists saw this and said "yeah, fukk this"

and bounced.

But hey, you feel better, right?

@panopticon @wire28

Its even deeper than the marketing, although that certainly didn't help.

Immigration is an important "signal" issue for non-elite folks. Ultimately, the political and economic system that we have is undergirded by an unspoken social contract between elites and the rest - that while elites may take more than their "fair share" and engage in all sorts of corrupt shenanigans, they won't compromise on the interests or safety of the average person. Refusing to take seriously the fear that non-elites feel due to repeated, horrific terrorist attacks - and in fact chastising them as racist or Islamophobic or "unsophisticated" for their concern - is seen as a betrayal of that fundamental unspoken social contract. So is refusing to listen to non-elites (especially the uneducated) when they scream for some respite from relentless mass immigration that depresses their wages and raises their housing costs. Well, elites do more than just not listen, they actively demonize those in the anti-immigration camp as racists, xenophobes, etc. - when really its mostly just people who know they'll never be a Google engineer and know that their children probably won't ever be one either, and want some semblance of a stable, dignified future for themselves and their kids regardless of their lack of top 1% ability.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

Breh stick to the Russia thread. You're out of your element and are trying too hard. You think kissing right wing/white ass is going to make them like you? That's not how it works. If you were from here you'd realize that.

What do you mean "from here?" I was born here.

Fact is, illegals LOVE it when democrats argue.

Cause they know we're the only ones keeping them in the States.

It benefits them to have bleeding hearts bend over backwards to do what no other country on earth does for illegals.

 

[General Mills]

This thread displays some serious political immaturity.

Party dominance is cyclical. Thats about as firm a rule as there is in American politics. Remember when everyone was writing autopsies for Republicans after Obama's victory, and correspondingly Democrats held complete dominance of congress? Republicans flirted with modernizing and becoming Democratic-lite, but they ended up veering harder right to much success.

Furthermore, issues of importance in voter's minds reliably strengthen and weaken EVERY election cycle. There's years the economy ranks as the number one issue, and there's years it struggles to crack the top five. There's a good chance no one will care about immigration in 2020.

To this point, in 2003/04 Bush won by riding the Iraq war. In 2007 support for the war was so toxic even Fox News warhawks were distancing themselves from it. Hilary Clinton's support for the war derailed her presidential hopes in 2008, and its safe to say her political career was never the same. This highlights the danger in caping for another party, and trying to appeal to their base at the expense of your party's convictions and values.

If I told you in 2006 that a black man would be the next president, you'd have me committed to a nuthouse. If I told you in 2014 that Trump would succeed Obama as the next president, you'd have me recommitted. American politics are volatile, and hardly static and fixed.

Trump will give the democrats plenty to exploit in the midterms and upcoming presidential. And the world will be much different in a couple of years. Dems will succeed thru forward thinking, and asking the basic question if voters are better off with Trump as president, and not this backwards idea that they need to follow republicans lead and act more hawkish about immigration. That would be so awkward and transparent.

Very well said. take this rep

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

Immigration aside, it doesn't bother you that the GOP is kind of...massively racist?

This is a president that pushed a bunch of birther conspiracy nonsense for years and posted fake stats on his Twitter about black-on-white crime to rile up white folks.


Even if I agreed with Trump on Immigration I still wouldn't have voted for him just off GP because he's a demagogue.

well the point here is that even if @panopticon did what most of us won't, its obvious that for a black man to do this signals that theres A LOT of white people who did this.

You hear it all the time. Trump voters didn't like X but they voted for Y, or Z.

There are single issue voters that the Dems are losing over their stance on illegal immigration. Its preposterous.

 

[Pressure]

well the point here is that even if @panopticon did what most of us won't, its obvious that for a black man to do this signals that theres A LOT of white people who did this.

You hear it all the time. Trump voters didn't like X but they voted for Y, or Z.

There are single issue voters that the Dems are losing over their stance on illegal immigration. Its preposterous.

You're just off base.

James. Out. :youmadcam:

 

[panopticon]

Immigration aside, it doesn't bother you that the GOP is kind of...massively racist?

This is a president that pushed a bunch of birther conspiracy nonsense for years and posted fake stats on his Twitter about black-on-white crime to rile up white folks.


Even if I agreed with Trump on Immigration I still wouldn't have voted for him just off GP because he's a demagogue.

Yes, Trump pushed all that birther conspiracy nonsense - but then he announced, in a nationally televised interview with Chuck Todd last year that he unequivocally supports Affirmative Action.

Sure, he goes and posts garbage crime stats on his Twitter...and then one of the first meetings he takes after being elected is with none other than Jim Brown.

I'm hoping that Trump is able to steer the Republican party in a more populist direction, and that as he does that, he makes it more palatable to black folks - especially the non-college educated black working/middle class. I might be mistaken or foolish in that hope, but that's where I am. I simply don't see a future for someone with my political/economic views in the Democratic party as it is currently constructed.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

Another thing @No_bammer_weed refuses to acknowledge:

Adaptation.

Agendas and parties must be flexible. Your anecdotes from the 80s, 90s, and 15 years ago are stale. If nothing else, yes you know some basic history. You know nothing about why those moments are remember or what led to them, sadly.

We have to adjust to the realities facing the American people.

Illegal immigrants are not the hill to die on.

We can do it more humanely, ethically, and sensibly with even some policies for certain types of asylum and amnesty. Lets face it, its damn hard to round them all up.

But you know good damn well this shyt is hurting us. You can't lie about it.

The GOP exploits the lies you're condoning. You won't win that way.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

You're just off base.

James. Out. :youmadcam:

I'm issuing strategy

And so are a litany of left-wing journalists and writers.

Illegals are an easy battle democrats are losing.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

Its even deeper than the marketing, although that certainly didn't help.

Immigration is an important "signal" issue for non-elite folks. Ultimately, the political and economic system that we have is undergirded by an unspoken social contract between elites and the rest - that while elites may take more than their "fair share" and engage in all sorts of corrupt shenanigans, they won't compromise on the interests or safety of the average person. Refusing to take seriously the fear that non-elites feel due to repeated, horrific terrorist attacks - and in fact chastising them as racist or Islamophobic or "unsophisticated" for their concern - is seen as a betrayal of that fundamental unspoken social contract. So is refusing to listen to non-elites (especially the uneducated) when they scream for some respite from relentless mass immigration that depresses their wages and raises their housing costs. Well, elites do more than just not listen, they actively demonize those in the anti-immigration camp as racists, xenophobes, etc. - when really its mostly just people who know they'll never be a Google engineer and know that their children probably won't ever be one either, and want some semblance of a stable, dignified future for themselves and their kids regardless of their lack of top 1% ability.

Oh, and theres the fact. Its illegal.

I mean we can't be this stupid.

We're talking about ILLEGALS.

If they showed up to the airport without passports we wouldn't let them in the country. But if they pop up across the border, we're treating them like heroes.

Its insanity.

 

[Hood Critic]

Yes, Trump pushed all that birther conspiracy nonsense - but then he announced, in a nationally televised interview with Chuck Todd last year that he unequivocally supports Affirmative Action.

Sure, he goes and posts garbage crime stats on his Twitter...and then one of the first meetings he takes after being elected is with none other than Jim Brown.

I'm hoping that Trump is able to steer the Republican party in a more populist direction, and that as he does that, he makes it more palatable to black folks - especially the non-college educated black working/middle class. I might be mistaken or foolish in that hope, but that's where I am. I simply don't see a future for someone with my political/economic views in the Democratic party as it is currently constructed.

Thats great that he said that but what evidence is there that Trump does or ever has supported Affirmative Action?

He met with Jim Brown...that's great but Jim Brown doesn't have a voice or influence in this generation's Black America.

I'm ever more baffled at your overall justification for switching parties. Your motivation for voting for Trump is rather evident - you as a SoCal native are in a competitive job market with illegal Mexicans.

 

[panopticon]

Panopticon, how would you rate Trump's performance thus far on those two issues?

Also would be interested in hearing how you square your support for LBJ/FDR style populism with your current registration. All of those things that you hold so dear (real wage growth) are in direct contradiction to the policies in the GOP's platform.

I'd rate his performance as C- on immigration, B on trade. Its another discussion, but while I agree with the executive orders early in his term on immigration in spirit, they were a tactical mistake that cost him a lot of positive momentum. I am happy that he has allowed ICE to "take the gloves off" and really get going with deportations and other enforcement actions. The B on trade is mostly due to his appointment of Lighthizer as USTR, who has a decidedly skeptical view of our current trade arrangements (a refreshing change from previous administrations, Democrat or Republican).

There hasn't been a material difference between Democrats and Republicans on real wage growth or trade at least since we signed on to NAFTA. It is mathematically impossible to improve wages while flooding the country with legal and illegal immigrants and allowing free trade with low-wage, zero-environmental restrictions countries. For the Democrats, the immigrants mean new voters. For the Republicans (at least pre-Trump wing), they meant cheap, easily exploitable labor. Everybody was fat and happy until Trump came along to blow the issue wide open.

More on the FDR/LBJ style populism later - sorry not to finish this up, but I gotta go for now.