If Dallas wins a title will Kyrie be put on the Mt Rushmore of 1B/Robin players alongside Pippen…..?

[Trojan 24]

The fact that y'all count concussed Kevin Love averaging 8ppg on 37% shooting as if it means something.

P.J. Washington has performed 10x better than 2016 Kevin Love did.






Pau had a better three-year stretch as the leader of a team in the West than Kobe did.


50-32 (#6 seed) with James Posey as his #2
45-37 (#8 seed) with Mike Miller as his #2
49-33 (#5 seed) with Mike Miller as his #2

At almost the exact same time, Lakers were struggling to:

34-48 (missed playoffs) with Caron Butler as the #2
45-37 (#7 seed) with Lamar Odom as the #2
42-40 (#7 seed) with Lamar Odom as the #2

He had terrible 1st-round matchups (Duncan's Spurs, Nash's Suns with Amare healthy, and Dirk's Mavs their Finals year), but overall that was better than Kobe's team did


Call Pau a "career loser" when his resume as a winner to that point was actually better than Kobe's resume as a #1.

Sure thing crodie, show me his playoff record in that stretch too. And here's a thought, how about Bron elevate someone's play for once

 

[Professor Emeritus]

Sure thing crodie, show me his playoff record in that stretch too.

Show me Kobe's playoff record during the same stretch? Kobe missed the playoffs and lost in the 1st round twice. Pau lost in the 1st round three times. Kobe couldn't even beat a Suns team that was far inferior to the one that Pau faced.

2004: Duncan-Parker-Ginobli Spurs (won title both the year before and after)
2005: Nash-Stoudemire-Joe Johnson Suns (by far the best Suns team of the 2000s)
2006: Dirk-Terry-Howard Mavs (barely lost to Heat in Finals)


Pau wasn't going to do shyt against those teams with James Posey and Mike Miller as his #2s. Meanwhile, Kobe faced a VASTLY inferior Suns squad (one with Diaw and Marion as the #2/3 options instead of Stoudamire, Iso Joe, Quentin Richardson AND Marion), and still couldn't beat them. He gets swept easy in Pau's place, every time.

And here's a thought, how about Bron elevate someone's play for once

LOL that you're saying this in a thread about Kyrie, who had his best performances ever while playing alongside Bron in the 2016 and 2017 Finals.

You have zero awareness.

Kyrie had his greatest series and most success playing with Bron. A.D. had by far his greatest success alongside Bron too. Mo Williams became an all-star playing next to Bron. J.R. Smith was a hothead benchwarmer who became the #3 on a title team next to Bron. Dozens of players have made their career come-up or saved a dying career by joining Bron's squad and looking good for a hot moment before they took a huge contract and then turned out to be useless playing anywhere else.

 

[Trojan 24]

Show me Kobe's playoff record during the same stretch? Kobe missed the playoffs and lost in the 1st round twice. Pau lost in the 1st round three times. Kobe couldn't even beat a Suns team that was far inferior to the one that Pau faced.

2004: Duncan-Parker-Ginobli Spurs (won title both the year before and after)
2005: Nash-Stoudemire-Joe Johnson Suns (by far the best Suns team of the 2000s)
2006: Dirk-Terry-Howard Mavs (barely lost to Heat in Finals)


Pau wasn't going to do shyt against those teams with James Posey and Mike Miller as his #2s. Meanwhile, Kobe faced a VASTLY inferior Suns squad (one with Diaw and Marion as the #2/3 options instead of Stoudamire, Iso Joe, Quentin Richardson AND Marion), and still couldn't beat them. He gets swept easy in Pau's place, every time.







LOL that you're saying this in a thread about Kyrie, who had his best performances ever while playing alongside Bron in the 2016 and 2017 Finals.

You have zero awareness.

Kyrie had his greatest series and most success playing with Bron. A.D. had by far his greatest success alongside Bron too. Mo Williams became an all-star playing next to Bron. J.R. Smith was a hothead benchwarmer who became the #3 on a title team next to Bron. Dozens of players have made their career come-up or saved a dying career by joining Bron's squad and looking good for a hot moment before they took a huge contract and then turned out to be useless playing anywhere else.

I know exactly what Kyrie did in Cleveland, I saw him go heads up with the unanimous MVP only for people like you to pretend like Bron had no help. Bron is the greatest floor raiser and ceiling limiter in sports, I've said that for years. Btw I think Pau was 0-12 in the playoffs before the Lakers

 

[Ozymandeas]

And the warriors bench badly outplayed clevelands bench

True. All Cleveland needed to do was get another reliable 3rd option. The Warriors had a three headed monster in Steph, KD and Klay and Love wasn’t doing enough to help Bron and Kyrie. In hindsight Bron should’ve sat down with Kyrie, let him know he was committed to Cleveland, signed whatever extension he needed to and then they should’ve added as many draft picks as they needed to get a legit scorer in exchange for Love.

 

[murksiderock]

Look at Gasols numbers vs Kobe's for the duration of that post season run and series. If you have to cling to the inefficiency of Kobe in that game 7 as a "gotcha" as to why we should overrate Gasol's importance relative to Kobe's, then that's a losing argument. We could do these game to game statistical nitpicks for every NBA Finals going back to the 1950s. There was a clear distance between Kobe and his teammates during those 3yr Finals runs. Even counting the 2008 loss to Boston. Gasol played a very very solid and important role in the 2009 and 2010 titles. But that role was a very clear and undebatable sidekick/robin role.

You talking outta both sides. With Kobe it's "look at the duration of the series, look at the clear distance those 3 years"...

But you're not looking at the duration of the series or the 3 years with Bron, for Kyrie...

You dudes are so inconsistent...

The fact that idiots are still using a game 7 that he won
And he did a lot of other things in that game to contribute when his shot wasn’t falling is fukking hilarious
God damn fukking casuals man

The G7 shouldn't be used to detract from Kobe's greatness, but it wasn't a good game, and he really doesn't have a lot of great Finals games despite playing in 7 of them...

The history of this board is littered with winning LeBron performances that dudes casually downplay...

Show me Kobe's playoff record during the same stretch? Kobe missed the playoffs and lost in the 1st round twice. Pau lost in the 1st round three times. Kobe couldn't even beat a Suns team that was far inferior to the one that Pau faced.

2004: Duncan-Parker-Ginobli Spurs (won title both the year before and after)
2005: Nash-Stoudemire-Joe Johnson Suns (by far the best Suns team of the 2000s)
2006: Dirk-Terry-Howard Mavs (barely lost to Heat in Finals)


Pau wasn't going to do shyt against those teams with James Posey and Mike Miller as his #2s. Meanwhile, Kobe faced a VASTLY inferior Suns squad (one with Diaw and Marion as the #2/3 options instead of Stoudamire, Iso Joe, Quentin Richardson AND Marion), and still couldn't beat them. He gets swept easy in Pau's place, every time.







LOL that you're saying this in a thread about Kyrie, who had his best performances ever while playing alongside Bron in the 2016 and 2017 Finals.

You have zero awareness.

Kyrie had his greatest series and most success playing with Bron. A.D. had by far his greatest success alongside Bron too. Mo Williams became an all-star playing next to Bron. J.R. Smith was a hothead benchwarmer who became the #3 on a title team next to Bron. Dozens of players have made their career come-up or saved a dying career by joining Bron's squad and looking good for a hot moment before they took a huge contract and then turned out to be useless playing anywhere else.

Wade very clearly had his most success with LeBron as well. That '06 run was a one-off, his 12-year non-LeBron career produced 1 Finals run in 12 years, 2 ECF runs in 12 years ('05), and a bunch of Rd1 eliminations and missed postseasons...

He's not exempt from the "had his most success with LeBron" list. Dudes overlook it because he got his one non-Bron ring on a team with Shaquille O'Neal who was still one of the 10-15 best players in ball in those '05 and '06 seasons...

Of any GOAT10 player, LeBron by far has the best career resume, of playing without his best teammate/s besides Duncan and Russell, who clearly just had a stacked team his entire career. Shaq, Kobe, Wilt, Mike, Bird, Magic, Kareem, look at their careers minus their best teammates, it's all a worse resume than Bron's minus his best teammate...

 

[GreatestLaker]

Pau was a career loser before he got to the Lakers. Now he's been elevated to a Laker Legend, and I think rightfully so. But compare his career trajectory to Love and Bosh, they were both better players before teaming up with a certain someone

Blatantly false. If anything they were on the same level. Fans didn't pay much attention to the Grizzles so he was often slept on but to act like Pau wasn't a top 12ish player is straight revisionist history.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

Wade very clearly had his most success with LeBron as well. That '06 run was a one-off, his 12-year non-LeBron career produced 1 Finals run in 12 years, 2 ECF runs in 12 years ('05), and a bunch of Rd1 eliminations and missed postseasons...

He's not exempt from the "had his most success with LeBron" list. Dudes overlook it because he got his one non-Bron ring on a team with Shaquille O'Neal who was still one of the 10-15 best players in ball in those '05 and '06 seasons...

The 4 best FG% seasons of Wade's career were 2011-2014, even though he was injured a lot of that time. Some of the best team defense of his career was during that period too (when the injuries weren't limiting him).

The 2 best FG% seasons of Bosh's career were 2013 and 2014. And he also played the best defense of his career and developed 3pt range for the first time.

Haters focus on their PPG dropping...but Bron's PPG drop too, that was a given when all 3 played together cause they had to share the rock. No one ever mentions that Pau, Odom, and Artest's PPG dropped as well when they had to play together alongside Kobe.

Of any GOAT10 player, LeBron by far has the best career resume, of playing without his best teammate/s besides Duncan and Russell, who clearly just had a stacked team his entire career. Shaq, Kobe, Wilt, Mike, Bird, Magic, Kareem, look at their careers minus their best teammates, it's all a worse resume than Bron's minus his best teammate...

Yeah, I'd say Duncan and LeBron both get that cred. Both of them were competitive when healthy for ~15 years of their "primes" no matter what their roster looked like. Magic, Russell, and Bird are all in the "always had a stacked team" category, none of the three really even had a year where their roster was even mediocre, much less "bad", until they were washed.

Kareem, Wilt, Shaq, MJ, Kobe, Hakeem all had some just straight uncompetitive years in their playing primes because their roster just wasn't good enough.

 

[murksiderock]

The 4 best FG% seasons of Wade's career were 2011-2014, even though he was injured a lot of that time. Some of the best team defense of his career was during that period too (when the injuries weren't limiting him).

The 2 best FG% seasons of Bosh's career were 2013 and 2014. And he also played the best defense of his career and developed 3pt range for the first time.

Haters focus on their PPG dropping...but Bron's PPG drop too, that was a given when all 3 played together cause they had to share the rock. No one ever mentions that Pau, Odom, and Artest's PPG dropped as well when they had to play together alongside Kobe.







Yeah, I'd say Duncan and LeBron both get that cred. Both of them were competitive when healthy for ~15 years of their "primes" no matter what their roster looked like. Magic, Russell, and Bird are all in the "always had a stacked team" category, none of the three really even had a year where their roster was even mediocre, much less "bad", until they were washed.

Kareem, Wilt, Shaq, MJ, Kobe, Hakeem all had some just straight uncompetitive years in their playing primes because their roster just wasn't good enough.

100% and your last paragraph is part of what separates LeBron from the others' GOAT candidacy. LeBron in his prime also had rosters that weren't good, and he raised the bar higher than each of those guys with comparably poor rosters. It's a clear differentiation, because all these guys won a lot of rings with great teams, but what did they do in less than ideal circumstances?

LeBron stands out from the pack, and for the guys who always had stacked teams ~70%+ of their careers, while we don't have as much evidence that they couldn't consistently raise mediocre teams, I think a couple things still separate Bron. 1, the resiliency of consistently lifting non-Hall level coaches to championship contention is a more impressive legacy point, than consistently winning with HOF coaches. 2, the expectation of winning with top tier rosters in The League is a given, LeBron is literally the only guy with GOAT candidacy who was consistently expected to compete for championships regardless of how much the roster sucked...

No other guy in NBA history was held to this inane standard and it honestly speaks volumes of what the people who claim they don't think he's the GOAT, really think about him; if the standards are that he must be in title contention regardless of roster and coaching deficiencies, this really highlights that people don't, and didn't, believe these other guys were capable of leading poor talent to those heights. They are validating LeBron's GOATness in the process...

I know you've said, as well as most other Bron heads here, that yall still consider Mike the GOAT, but for me there are just too many legacy points in LeBron's favor that Mike and these other guys don't have!

 

[Dwight Howard]

Blatantly false. If anything they were on the same level. Fans didn't pay much attention to the Grizzles so he was often slept on but to act like Pau wasn't a top 12ish player is straight revisionist history.

Pau gasol was never regarded as a universal top 12 player in the league

 

[Miggs]

Lets not sugar coat this hes a 2...hes not a 1B hes a 2...

 

[Trojan 24]

Pau gasol was never regarded as a universal top 12 player in the league

1 All Star and No All-NBAs before coming to the Lakers but he was Top 12?

 

[firemanBk]

We're making Mount Rushmore's for Robin's now?
By definition it you a Robin you don't belong on any damn Mount Rushmore

 

[GreatestLaker]

Pau gasol was never regarded as a universal top 12 player in the league

Pau averaged 21/10/3/2 and finished 6th in PER but he wasn't a top 12ish player in 07?

 

[Professor Emeritus]

1 All Star and No All-NBAs before coming to the Lakers

That was due to market and attention, not ability.

Last full year with Grizzlies: 20.8 ppg, 9.8 rpg, 3.4 apg, 2.1 bpg, 54% shooting - no all-star, no All-NBA
First full year with Lakers: 18.9 ppg, 9.6 rpg, 3.5 apg, 1.9 bpg, 57% shooting - All-Star and All-NBA (11th in league in All-NBA votes)

Next two years he put up the same stats yet moved his way up to 2nd-team All-NBA (9th in league in All-NBA votes). And then since his brand was set, when he moved to Chicago he continued to grab additional All-Star and All-NBA selections even though his actual #'s and role dropped even further from what he was doing in Memphis.

 

[Biscayne]

You talking outta both sides. With Kobe it's "look at the duration of the series, look at the clear distance those 3 years"...

But you're not looking at the duration of the series or the 3 years with Bron, for Kyrie...

You dudes are so inconsistent...

The G7 shouldn't be used to detract from Kobe's greatness, but it wasn't a good game, and he really doesn't have a lot of great Finals games despite playing in 7 of them...

The history of this board is littered with winning LeBron performances that dudes casually downplay...

Wade very clearly had his most success with LeBron as well. That '06 run was a one-off, his 12-year non-LeBron career produced 1 Finals run in 12 years, 2 ECF runs in 12 years ('05), and a bunch of Rd1 eliminations and missed postseasons...

He's not exempt from the "had his most success with LeBron" list. Dudes overlook it because he got his one non-Bron ring on a team with Shaquille O'Neal who was still one of the 10-15 best players in ball in those '05 and '06 seasons...

Of any GOAT10 player, LeBron by far has the best career resume, of playing without his best teammate/s besides Duncan and Russell, who clearly just had a stacked team his entire career. Shaq, Kobe, Wilt, Mike, Bird, Magic, Kareem, look at their careers minus their best teammates, it's all a worse resume than Bron's minus his best teammate...

I literally posted Kyrie and LeBrons ppg for the whole duration of the 2016 post season. LBJ only averaged 2 more points than Kyrie while Kobe averaged 10 more ppg than Pau during their 2010 title run. It’s not comparable. Kobe carried a larger scoring load relative to his running mate than LeBron did with Kyrie. The sample size I used between the two duos was both for a whole post season. Both of the post seasons in which they both won titles.