I think Grime could blow up once they get good beats

[IllmaticDelta]

Can someone explain why Grime is a sub genre of hip hop and Dancehall isn't?

The case can be made that Modern dancehall is an offshoot of rap from a verbal syncopation POV as I explained before

@Kanika why you going so hard?



This is total fukkery

The fact you keep saying toast shows you're on some revisionist shyt. How old are you?

Rapping and DEEJAYing both come from the mic man/selector dynamic.

what we now call rapping, Aframs were doing on record since the 1920's. What Jamaica's call Deejaying came from what they call Toasting, which they got from Afram R&B radio DJ's who were doing rhyming jive/patter/slick talk live on air in the 1940's/1950's. This same Jive was found on Jazz and R&B records.

Dancehall and rap music are mirror images of each other.

The similarities in the 2 first come from both having roots in older Afram practices that I just explained above. The 2nd influence when Rap/HipHop became a full blow musical genre by the late 1970's, Jamaican's heard early HipHOp records which shifted the Jamaican Toasting styles syncopation which is why they went from







..........then they heard American Rap in the late 1970's






...and then in the early 1980's modern jamaican dancehall was born when they started using HipHop-Rap style syncopation to the beat when the jamaica toasting was always freelanced/not relating directly to the beat










this is basically all confirmed by Supercat

Supercat basically hints at it here

Super Cat was saying specifically that Rappers Delight was HUGE in Jamaica.

@2:23



shouts to @The Ruler 09 for posting that.

The reason why Im willing to place it further away from HipHop than Grime is because musically Dancehall with it's dem bow beats and music that came more from reggae is further out from HipHop than Grime is, which has more ties to HipHop production and the MC'ing overall is closer to HipHop styles.

 

[Dushane Hill]

watching fools cry as their delusions are shattered will never not be funny

Lol please shut up, you haven't said or done anything in this thread apart from suck ilmaticdelta's balls throughout.

 

[Poitier]

Lol please shut up, you haven't said or done anything in this thread apart from suck ilmaticdelta's balls throughout.

I'd be hurt if my "unique" identity was shattered, too.

 

[Dushane Hill]

I'd be hurt if my "unique" identity was shattered, too.

My unique identity goes beyond a music genre

 

[IllmaticDelta]

My unique identity goes beyond a music genre

What he said hold true for many people that continue to deny the obvious. Many think Grime is distinctly Carib/Jamaican musically when that couldn't be further from the truth. Even the iconography is more HipHop than dancehall.

 

[Dushane Hill]

What he said hold true for many people that continue to deny the obvious. Many think Grime is distinctly Carib/Jamaican musically when that couldn't be further from the truth. Even the iconography is more HipHop than dancehall.

The jamaican/west indian influence is gonna be strong in any black UK genre. A large number of people who first started doing Grime (and black people in the UK in general) grew up West Indian households.

Obviously the iconography is closer to Hip Hop....the environments where Hip Hop and Grime were created aren't that much different, so everything that comes with those type of environments is also gonna be similar. Not to mention, in general the two cities share a lot of similarities. Dancehall was created in Jamaica, a completely different setting to NY & London, so it's Iconography is always gonna be different. But the debate was about the sound of Grime so I'm not sure why you brought that up.

 

[K.O.N.Y]

play any of these in an afram club present day and see how they will react.
some of you stupid lots think techno is 'white people music'

fukking loser tribe. you don't and can't even appreciate what your fathers listened too, you've given that up just like you're on the verge of giving up hiphop. say hi to Iggy Azelea and Eminem, shyt is a shame. Eminem didn't even register as misspelled just now. ffs. you're losing it but trying to laugh. You didn't even get the gist of what I was just saying. This thread in itself is indication of what I've been saying, you're laughing at grime when its black music that is spawned in the 00s.

breh your one of the weirdest posters on the coli. How can anyone take your insults seriously A breh from a third world country seriously

You insult yet Stan AA pop culture but not like the way we jokingly use stan on the coli/blacktwitter

But like stan,in the music video stan,type of stan

 

[ThisWorldAintRight]

I'm not that familiar with Grime, but this new album by Frisco, "System Killer", is some fresh sounding shyt.

 

[ChatGPT-5]

breh your one of the weirdest posters on the coli. How can anyone take your insults seriously A breh from a third world country seriously

You insult yet Stan AA pop culture but not like the way we jokingly use stan on the coli/blacktwitter

But like stan,in the music video stan,type of stan

You live in a super power and I live better than you so you stfu, you didn't make your country advanced, someone else did.

I can like and dislike whatever the fukk I want. How can anyone take me serious yet you're here coattailing yet again, so YOU take me serious. Sensitive arse little bytch, stop crying.

 

[Redwing80]

Article explaining why Grime isn't a sub genre of Hip Hop

Deeper Than Rap: Grime is Not a Subgenre of Hip-Hop

From a respected media outlet, not a Wikipedia link and diagrams found from google images

Grime’s clearest forefathers are reggae and dancehall, not hip-hop. Logan Samamentioned this in a recent discussion, as did Novelist in July’s No Ceilings interview. It’s even broken down by Breakage and Newham Generals with the tune “Hard,” in which David Rodigan symbolically passes the torch in his speech halfway through the track. Tracing the lineage of reggae and dancehall culture directly to grime is easy when we consider the almighty dub—the rework or remix of an existing recording.

This continuum stretches back to King Tubby and Lee “Scratch” Perry tinkering away in Studio One, Kingston, Jamaica. The mentality of re-visioning—or whatreggae theorist and filmmaker Julian Henriques calls “re-presenting”—existing music in new forms is at the crux of Jamaican music culture. The mass migration from the West Indies to the UK in the 1950s saw the culture come with the people, and acts such as Steel Pulse and Channel One Sound System are as British now as a cup of Earl Grey and a digestive biscuit, while their culture of dubs has been readily incorporated firstly into drum and bass and then grime.
Click to expand...​

 

[IllmaticDelta]

Article explaining why Grime isn't a sub genre of Hip Hop

Deeper Than Rap: Grime is Not a Subgenre of Hip-Hop

From a respected media outlet, not a Wikipedia link and diagrams found from google images

Grime’s clearest forefathers are reggae and dancehall, not hip-hop. Logan Samamentioned this in a recent discussion, as did Novelist in July’s No Ceilings interview. It’s even broken down by Breakage and Newham Generals with the tune “Hard,” in which David Rodigan symbolically passes the torch in his speech halfway through the track. Tracing the lineage of reggae and dancehall culture directly to grime is easy when we consider the almighty dub—the rework or remix of an existing recording.

This continuum stretches back to King Tubby and Lee “Scratch” Perry tinkering away in Studio One, Kingston, Jamaica. The mentality of re-visioning—or whatreggae theorist and filmmaker Julian Henriques calls “re-presenting”—existing music in new forms is at the crux of Jamaican music culture. The mass migration from the West Indies to the UK in the 1950s saw the culture come with the people, and acts such as Steel Pulse and Channel One Sound System are as British now as a cup of Earl Grey and a digestive biscuit, while their culture of dubs has been readily incorporated firstly into drum and bass and then grime.
Click to expand...​

reggaeton is closer to dancehall than grime is.

 

[IllmaticDelta]

The jamaican/west indian influence is gonna be strong in any black UK genre. A large number of people who first started doing Grime (and black people in the UK in general) grew up West Indian households.

Basically all of the "black" music in the UK is based on the foundation of Afram music. All they do is add on top something from their own backgrounds.

Obviously the iconography is closer to Hip Hop....the environments where Hip Hop and Grime were created aren't that much different, so everything that comes with those type of environments is also gonna be similar. Not to mention, in general the two cities share a lot of similarities. Dancehall was created in Jamaica, a completely different setting to NY & London, so it's Iconography is always gonna be different. But the debate was about the sound of Grime so I'm not sure why you brought that up.

the setting that created dancehall isn't all that different from the settings that birthed hiphop. The real reason grime has more similar visuals to HipHop is because that's what influenced it to a larger degree.

 

[Redwing80]

reggaeton is closer to dancehall than grime is.

That's not the point. Grime always struggled to have an identity in the mainstream and even considered as Electronic music, if anything, rather than Hip Hop. Of course Hip Hop influenced the culture but it doesn't come from that genre specifically. It's lazy to call it that

 

[IllmaticDelta]

That's not the point. Grime always struggled to have an identity in the mainstream and even considered as Electronic music, if anything, rather than Hip Hop. Of course Hip Hop influenced the culture but it doesn't come from that genre specifically. It's lazy to call it that

HipHop is electronic music

 

[Redwing80]

HipHop is electronic music

Ok I'm done here