How mainstream do you see the Atheist movement becoming in the next 20-25 years?
- Thread starter MouseTeeth
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Maybe, but more importantly, the theory of God you are presenting is outside the scientific jurisdiction.
See, when you say the methods are simply believed to be true, you're wrong. You can test logic, or mathematical formulas yourself and you will find the results are the same whether or not you do them or I do them. If you find a formula for calculating the size of an object relative to another object, and find that it works for several earthly objects that you can see yourself, then you can use that same formula for any object, including one you have not directly seen up close yourself, like Jupiter. Unless you are denying the possibility of rules that govern or formalize reality, or denying the possibility of any knowledge at all, in which case you would have no reason to argue whatsoever, I don't see how you can avoid this
They are based on different degrees of belief, and different degrees of facts as well.
Okay, then conduct your experiment and share your results. See, you keep telling me what "can" be done, meaning you, personally, haven't done it. Which proves my point: you simply believe it. When you conduct your experiment then your "fact" may be based on something more than belief. But as it stands today, you are simply believing, friend, regardless of degree.
Do you agree or disagree with this point, though: "If you find a formula for calculating the size of an object relative to another object, and find that it works for several earthly objects that you can see yourself, then you can use that same formula for any object, including one you have not directly seen up close yourself, like Jupiter."
Truthfully that's tricky. For the sake of harmony, I'll say yes.
But in all honesty, I'm no expert on the subject and really don't know about the methods used. Can you explain it in more detail? How is the distance of Jupiter from Earth taken into account? Serious question because I'm not well versed in this particular field of study.
But can you agree that even though said methods may exist until you actually conduct the experiment yourself you are going off of hearsay?
For example, I read something interesting about the number 19 in relation to the Qur'an. You may want to google it yourself, interesting stuff. But anyways, some of the facts I found to be true by actually conducting the experiment but others I found to be false. Regardless, I found the false ones plastered all over the net, most likely simply repeated verbatim without actual research. Anyone who investigated a little further would have found certain claims to be untrue, but they believed them and described the method used to arrive at such conclusions in great detail even though they clearly never tested it themselves.
it's the same subject. I'm trying to teach you something about the history of the process, and how none of it is secret, too complex, or even new. I don't have to duplicate the experiment, because others already have, and they've laid their work out for everyone to see. then that work was used, along with what we know about gravity, to make the mass calculations. and all that comes together to be able to make incredibly accurate predictions. that is the 'proof' that ultimately matters: it works!
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Then explain it. In your own words. Describe the method used and the calculations reached. You speak as though you know this like the back of your hand so please enlighten me. Please don't post another youtube video unless you are the author. I'm asking for your personal expert opinion. Showing me someone else's is just proving my point.
you determine the size of it's orbit, then you use that to determine it's distance from the earth, then you use it's apparent size and trigonometry to determine it's diameter
the first part takes awhile, as you have to make accurate observations over time (a year). luckily I don't have to go through all that, since many other's already have, and made their results available to everyone. then those results went on to be used to make very accurate predictions
Ok I see. But I don't doubt that. I never doubted that. What I'm saying is how do you know these calculations are correct? Have you ever performed this experiment? I haven't, but I believe their calculations are pretty accurate. See what I'm saying?
I'm a bit of an astronomer myself. Please forgive my earlier mistake. I've always been a numbers guy, not a wordsmith. But I track the moon at least 3 times a year for the beginning of Ramadan and the the 2 Eids. In fact, since we're on the subject do you know of Islam's contributions to the field of astronomy?
All I'm saying is there are a lot of facts of life we believe without actually haven taken the time to prove it ourselves. And it's really a poor example on my behalf anyway because we're talking about physical things and they don't compare to Allah. Allah isn't made up of any type of matter. Allah isn't solid or liquid or gas or a wave. These are all forms that make up His creation. There is nothing you know that I can really compare to Allah.
The Creator. The Seer of All. The Originator. The Self-Existing One. The Greatest.
He is The Hidden and The Manifest. You can see Allah in the creation if you look hard enough, or even if you're not looking hard at all. Your very existence. Life. You're telling me about planets so far away they look like dots. I'm talking about the 2 spheres stuck in your head. Connected to your brain. Look out of them and tell me you don't see Allah. In every facet of creation. How can you deny the creation? It's right in front of you. You are a part of it! You, your hands, every tree, every cloud, every atom is a part of this creation. Even your computer was made with parts from the creation. Allah is The Creator. Why is that so unbelievable?
i'm not even atheist but wize fool, you keep comin at them like they hypocrites, believin "hearsay" but how is that even close to bein true when everything you're askin about has been grounded in prior evidence? think of it like this, they put their beliefs into information that has taken thousands of years in research, experimentation and self-correction to gain. on the flip side, yours is placed in a single book from centuries ago 
can't even compare it to other religions because you're all on your own fukked up axises, science and math have to be one of the few issues man can agree on worldwide. science says gravity pulls shyt down. if i let go of a apple, sure enough it'll fall. despite this pull science also says that you can send hunks of medal weighin nearly a million pounds through the sky, or better yet, well over a million pounds not just into the sky but into outer space... but my bad i'm gettin ahead of myself, i aint even did the research yet to prove that planes and space shuttles weigh that much, or that a "pound" even weighs what they say it does and so on. but you'll tell me to believe in allah. to pray and he'll answer me but where's your proof for that? if i pray right now he'll answer me but if i DO pray whats gon happen to let me know he's real 
can't even compare it to other religions because you're all on your own fukked up axises, science and math have to be one of the few issues man can agree on worldwide. science says gravity pulls shyt down. if i let go of a apple, sure enough it'll fall. despite this pull science also says that you can send hunks of medal weighin nearly a million pounds through the sky, or better yet, well over a million pounds not just into the sky but into outer space... but my bad i'm gettin ahead of myself, i aint even did the research yet to prove that planes and space shuttles weigh that much, or that a "pound" even weighs what they say it does and so on. but you'll tell me to believe in allah. to pray and he'll answer me but where's your proof for that? if i pray right now he'll answer me but if i DO pray whats gon happen to let me know he's real i'm not even atheist but wize fool, you keep comin at them like they hypocrites, believin "hearsay" but how is that even close to bein true when everything you're askin about has been grounded in prior evidence? think of it like this, they put their beliefs into information that has taken thousands of years in research, experimentation and self-correction to gain. on the flip side, yours is placed in a single book from centuries ago
I think you're missing my point. I'm not doubting the evidence. I believe the calculations to be accurate.
I'll repeat, I'm not doubting the evidence. I believe the calculations to be accurate.
But what am I saying? I believe these calculations to be true. Even though I've never done the math myself. See what I'm saying?
Islam introduced the world to modern astronomy.
As far as the end of your post, I would need clarification on what you mean by "answer me". Are you looking for a specific thing or just guidance in general? If you are looking for just guidance and truth, then my suggestion would be, yeah, try praying. Give it a shot. Pray for guidance. Pray for a sign. I believe that would work. My proof is the billions of people who feel they, too, have received that same guidance. And all those who have passed on and felt the same way. Yes, I believe that if you prayed for a sign, Allah would answer that. See this isn't one of those experiments you can omit and just take my word for. Maybe you should try this one.
You say you aren't atheist. What is your way of life?
brick james
John piffington
What is your point; that ignorant people who don't know simple math and still follow it are the same as ignorant people who follow religion? It's ironic because you seem to be both. In my 16th year of studying math I can demonstrate to you, starting at simple arithmetic that is completely verifiable using a pen and paper, that the calculations of jupiter are accurate, and can be tested and recreated on a number of other objects.
Now, if you don't want to take my word for it, you can simply start at arithmetic, and learn more about mathematics until you can easily verify those calculations. Can i do the same with islam?
i been seen what you were sayin but what i'm sayin is, regardless of whether or not you've done the math, the math is available to you should you ever decide. this can't be said for religion. consensus breaks among cultures like food delicacies
1st bold it shouldn't matter what i prayed for, the point is i prayed. how do i know whether or not god answered me? 2nd bold idk... i grew up religious and i still believe in god, i just aint arrogant enough to claim i know who how or what it is
How many times do I have to say I'm not doubting the math?
All I'm saying is I never did the calculations myself and until I do I'll just simply have to believe that guy.
Somebody teach this cat the scientific method......
The Scientific Method >>>> using untested, religious philosophies or pseudo logic,
I swear people argue just to be arguing.
Please do the calculations breh......